8 mo - long early night waking

[PaulsMom]

I agree, the 6 am wu may be habit. 

Wrt the black out blinds, is there any possibility of hanging drapes as well over top?  Some have the blackout lining.  Probably will look better than tin foil and may add one extra bit of darkening especially in the mornings.  This may help with the 6 am ew.

Wrt bt, if she is doing ok, I'd aim for 7 pm.  She's still catching up on sleep and for a lot of kids, it's better to do this as a slightly earlier bt. 

[lily_layne]

She's up already from her pm nap.  I figured this would happen since she had a long am one.  She ended up sleeping 45 min so 7 will be the goal for BT but if she's fading fast, I'll try to get her down earlier.

[lily_layne]

BT tonight was a total disaster.  I am feeling so frustrated with this.  It's gotten to the point where I dread BT

Our day today was:
WU: 7:30
S: 9:45-11:30
S: 2-2:45 - UT because of the long am nap.
BT: Start at 6:30 - asleep at 8

I put her down at 6:30 and she played and rolled quietly for a bit and then fussed.  I went in when the crying escalated and she stopped right away so I left - repeat a few times until she kept crying so I patted her.  She would settle briefly and her head would come up and she alternated between crying and trying to play and pulling her ears and rubbing her eyes.  I left after 15 minutes when she was calm and then had to repeat the whole process at 7:30.  I left when she began rolling and playing and DH went in when she cried at 7:50.  He patted her and she went bananas and would not calm down so he ended up rocking her.

Is there anything in our EASY that you see being a major problem?  What's the best way to handle it when she takes this long to get to sleep?  I know rocking is not the best strategy and the inconsistency is probably making things worse but we were both at the end of our ropes. Should we be trying PU/PD when she absolutely loses it?  Was I right to leave her when she was trying to play or was calm or should I have kept patting?

[ZacsMumme]

The day is too short, that's prob why she is fighting Bt. Even with a 45 min pm nap 11 hr day at 8 mths is really short given the good am nap YK? She's likely OT by the time she setted though ((hugs))

I really think her A needs to be increased   2.5 hrs is more 5 mths appropriate.
Here's some examples chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

[lily_layne]

I think you're bang on about the day being too short.  She's come down with a case of roseola and had a fever the last few days which meant she wasn't sleeping well so I was kind of aiming for an EBT, hoping she'd catch up, and I was assuming it would take an hour for her to get to sleep like the night before, but it obviously didn't work.  She was showing a lot of tired signs but she also did before her pm nap so I think they may have been habit more than actual tiredness.

Her A times are usually longer.  The last few days have been way off because she's sick.  Once she's feeling better, I'm going to try to extend them a touch.

Last night was ugly.  She was crying out lots between 1 and 2 and patting wouldn't settle her so I nursed her and then I heard her playing at 3.  She was up when I woke up at 6:30 so I'm assuming she was up at 6 again.  She did an OT cry out in her am nap which she almost never does so I think I'm going to have to catch her up on sleep somehow.

I'm at a total loss about when to try BT tonight because nothing seems to work.  At least DH is home tonight to help - maybe I'll leave the decision up to him. 

[PaulsMom]

Sorry the 7 pm bt didn't work.  It's so hard when they are sick to know what to so.  I take it her fever is gone?  May be keep her last A low key and aim for the usual bt for some consistency.

[lily_layne]

Her fever's not quite gone but it's a lot lower today.  She's entirely covered in a pink, spotty rash today so I think she has roseola.  I'm going to take her to the doctor today.  Not that I want my sweet pea to be uncomfortable but I hoped these awful BTs are discomfort because then there's hope that they will get better soon.  She had 2 long naps today and BT was bit better.  She went nuts again but calmed when I picked her up and I was able to pat her to sleep so the whole process was 30 min compared to an hour and half last night.

May be keep her last A low key and aim for the usual bt for some consistency.

Given that I'm at a total loss for what else to do, I like this idea.  Would it be worth trying a longer wind down also?

[PaulsMom]

Poor thing!  i hope her rash clears quickly and shes not too itchy or uncomfortable. 

Hope I'm not replying too late.  Wrt longer wind down, probably not a bad idea to extend the time you spend doing some things as long as she's good with it.  I wouldn't introduce new things into the wind down. 

[lily_layne]

R was really tired today even with 2 long naps (2 hours each) so I was worried about BT but it went great!  I started her wind down at 6:35, thinking she'd be asleep by 7.  I sat and rocked and I was using that time to relax and prepare myself to be calm and patient if it was going to take a long time and I was so zoned out I accidentally rocked her to sleep.  She cried out about 10 minutes after I put her down but I really listened and realized it was a mantra cry so I just waited. 10 minutes later she was back asleep   I'm a little worried about an extra early WU tomorrow - my fingers are crossed that she at least makes it to her usual 6 am.

I was going to have DH try W2S tomorrow since he's been getting up at 5 anyway but I might wait another day because she'll have been asleep longer than usual by then and I don't want it to backfire.

Today looked like:
WU: 6:20 - I got her at 6:40 when she started crying
S: 9:20-11:20
S: 2:10-4
Wind down: 6:35, S at 6:45

Based on this, I'm wondering if I was totally wrong in thinking she needs her last A to be the longest (she was doing 4 hours) or should I not base anything on today since she's been catching up from being sick?

[PaulsMom]

Wow!  Great naps!  Yay for the good bt.  Fx that she doesn't wake before 6 (ideally 7).  I think she's catching up so I wouldn't set your routine based on this.  Plus, she's still sick.

But thinking back through the weeks, I'm wondering if a pattern is emerging where she's going through a cycle of later bt / fighting bt and then earlier bt when she's catching up.  There's gotta be a happy medium in there wrt A times and nap times.

[lily_layne]

I'm wondering if a pattern is emerging where she's going through a cycle of later bt / fighting bt and then earlier bt when she's catching up.  There's gotta be a happy medium in there wrt A times and nap times.

I've been thinking this too.  I think I'll have to wait until she's feeling better before I can find this elusive "magic" BT.

Last night she woke at 4 screaming like crazy.  She would not settle so I ended up feeding her and then she was calm but it took her a while to settle back to sleep.  Could she be genuinely hungry or should I work harder to settle her without nursing?  Once she got back to sleep around 5, she slept to 7!  She's an absolute bear this morning though and was still tired - she only managed 2 hours of A time.

[PaulsMom]

Could she be genuinely hungry or should I work harder to settle her without nursing?

  I think at this age, they probably feel hunger in the middle of the night, in the same way that you or I feel hungry if you wake up.  This doesn't mean that we go and make ourselves a sandwich though.  I think it's pretty normal to feel hunger in the middle of the night however unlike young babies, I don't think that most babies this age "need" to be fed in the middle of the night, iykwim (assuming that they are eating properly during the day).  I don't think that there are any issues with feeding an older baby in the middle of the night  either (we all need to get some sleep and sometimes that's the easiest way to settle them) so it's more your preference as to how to handle the nw (I still feed my DD in the middle of the night but it's easier than having her disturb her bother's sleep also).

[lily_layne]

I think at this age, they probably feel hunger in the middle of the night, in the same way that you or I feel hungry if you wake up.  This doesn't mean that we go and make ourselves a sandwich though. 

I got a good laugh from this because I often eat in the MOTN.  DD did a spell of STTN at 4 mo and I was still getting up to eat
Your explanation makes sense.  Feeding is definitely the quickest way to get her back to sleep.  If she starts waking every night again, I'll rethink my strategy but for now, I won't worry about feeding her for NWs if she won't settle.

Tonight was our best night ever!!!! I cuddled her until she was sucking her blanket and nice and calm, put her down, and walked away.  She fussed a few times and was asleep in 10 minutes!  No wake ups yet!  Thank you so much for your advice.  It's really helped me to know that if BT is terrible I can come on here, whine a bit and get some great advice and support.  Without you, I'd probably still be in BT h*ll and it's nice to have someone to "talk" to about it, especially with DH gone every night.

The last few days, she's done best with a wind down at 6:40 and only 8h30 of A time in the day.  It's a lot less A time than she had been having - I'm sure it will change once this tooth cuts and she's totally healthy but it's working for now so I'm happy.  With luck, I'll get a few days of grace before I have to figure things out again.

[PaulsMom]

So glad I could help!  Yay for the great bt! 

[lily_layne]

BT may have been great but the night sure wasn't   It seems like she just won't do a good BT and a good night. 

She woke up with a quick cry out at 3 and spent a long time trying to get back to sleep.  She broke out her loudest scream at 3:50 so I went in and tried to calm her.  I tried rocking and patting and she would settle for a minute or so and then cry again so I finally fed her.  I could've saved a half hour if I'd just fed her right off.  She was still wiggly and seemed like she didn't want to be held so I put her down and she banged around in her crib until close to 5   I have no idea if this is UT or OT or teeth or a wonder week. Any guesses?

I woke her at 7:20 this morning to try to keep naps and BT at what she's used to but I may end up regretting it.  She was ready for a nap after 1h50 so we'll see how the day goes. Should I am for BT a little later than 7 or keep it the same as the last few days?

The small silver lining is that she seems to have broken the 6 am WU habit.