3 hourly night waking

[rosebudz27]

Hello all,

I'm relatively new to the baby whisperer way, and am in need of some advice please! I started doing pupd with my 5 mo a week ago as she was waking up every 1-2 hours at night. I am also trying to get her on 4 hour easy but some days her naps are too short so it doesn't work out quite right. I do try to keep to breastfeeding her every 4 hours but sometimes its shorter. Things have improved dramatically in that she can self settle now and puts herself to sleep without feeding or rocking and singing which we relied on before, but she still keeps waking every 3 hours like clockwork at night and won't resettle unless I feed her. Sometimes she takes both sides, sometimes just 1 so I'm thinking it might be habit some of the time, not just hunger. Has anyone got any ideas on how I can stop 1 or 2 of these wakings? I realise that she's quite young to stop feeding at night all together.

Thanks in advance!
X

[Erin M]

Hi there, welcome!
Can you post your "typical" daily routine (or just a few consecutive days if you're all over the place still) like this:
E
A
S

Thanks!

[rosebudz27]

Hi Erin,

here was a good day:

E  6.30
A
S  8.20-9.55
E  10.10
A
S  12.40-1.55
E  2
A
S  4- 4.30
A
E  5
S  6

Wakings: 8.45 (1 x BF). 00.30 (2 x BF), 4 (BF x 2), woke at 6.30-7 ish (not sure as she was already awake when we woke up!)

And a not so good day:

E 6.30 ( x 2 BF)
A
S 8.25-9
A
E  9.30 (x 1BF)
A
E 10.30 (x 1 BF)
A
S  11.15 - 12
A
S  2- 3.20
E  3.30 (2 x BF)
A
E  5.45 (x 2 BF)
S  6.25

Wakings: 10 (BF), 3.15 (BF).

These were from a few days ago as I haven't written things down over the weekend but the last few nights she has woken at around 9.30, 00.30, 3.30, and generally wakes up for the day at about 6.30.  I have to say that the good days are pretty rare, as she often won't nap for very long.  She is now able to settle herself at bed time and some naps but sometimes she still sleeps in the pram or in the car seat or wrap if we go out.

x

[Erin M]

Is she just 5 months, or is she closer to 6 months?  It makes such a difference at that age!  At exactly 5 months, we'd expect average A times of 2 hours to 2 hours 15 minutes.  At 5.5 months and closer to 6 months, we'd expect A times to be more like 2.5 hours -- and then you'll also be pushing towards dropping that cat nap (which could also be messing with your daytime sleep too -- you might check out this FAQ -- All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months).  The settling at naps and bedtime often has a lot to do with getting the right A time before it's time to sleep.

What are her wakings like?  Is she awake and playing or just totally fussy?  You're right in that she probably doesn't need to eat each time that she wakes, though a feeding or two would be totally reasonable at her age -- it's just when we get past that to 3 or more that it's a bit excessive!  Does she go right back to sleep after eating?

[rosebudz27]

Hi, she's 5 months and a week ish, so still needs 3 naps I guess. At night she wakes up moaning and it turns into crying if I leave her.

[Erin M]

OK, I'd try to stay pretty close to 2 hours for that first A time and see what kind of nap you get from it.  I think you're right that she still needs 3 naps, but I think you need to try to aim for more consistent A times -- as even on your good day, you've got one of just under 2 hours, one of nearly 3, and then one of just over 2 hours.  Some babies like their A times to be different at different times of the day, but it doesn't seem to be working for her right now. 

The other thing -- have you ruled out all forms of discomfort?  Is she teething?  New foods?  New developmental stuff?  All of that can mess with sleep as well.

I'd also try to focus on only feeding if its been 4 hours or more and trying to get her to take full feedings at those wakings.

[rosebudz27]

Thanks for your advice, her naps have been longer after longer A time today, but still need to get A time more consistent. She's slept really badly for the last few nights, I think she's teething as although I can't see teeth coming through yet her gums feel quite hard and sharp and she keeps massaging them with her tongue. Have given her calpol and teething gel before bt tonight but it doesn't seem to be helping, she's woken up twice already since being put to bed 2 hours ago! Thankfully my husband isn't working tomorrow so he's able to help me with her. Think its going to be another long night....

[Erin M]

I think she's teething as although I can't see teeth coming through yet her gums feel quite hard and sharp and she keeps massaging them with her tongue.

With my ds especially, I found that we had worse nights when the teeth were moving around under his gums than when they were actually breaking through.  It will take a few days to settle into new A times, so I'd keep working with that and medicate for teething as you've been doing (if that's something you're comfortable with).  Hope you get a decent night!

[rosebudz27]

Hello again,

well I've been concentrating on sticking to the Easy routine and extending her A times, this is what the last few days have looked like:

Saturday:

W 6
E 6.45
A
S 8.30-10 (woke happy)
E 11
A
S 12.30-1.30 (woke happy)
E 2
A
S 3.50-4.20 (woke crying)
A
E 5.15
S 6 (resisted for 30 minutes)

Night wakings: 7.30 (sh/pat), 10.05 (BF x 1). 12.30 (BF x 1), 2.40 (sh pat), 3.15 (BF x 1), 6-6.30 ish

Sunday:

W 6-6.30 ish
E 7
A
S 8.30-10.15 (woke happy)
E10.30
A
S 12.30-1 (woke happy)
E 1.15
A
S 3.10-4 (woke crying)
A
E 5.20
A
S 6.10

Night wakings: 7.30 (sh/pat), 9.20 (BF x 2), 10.50 (sh/pat), 12.40 (BF x 1), 3.40 (BF x 1 + sh/pat+pu/pd), 6-6.30 (ish)

Monday - this morning:

W 6-6.30 (ish)
E 6.40
A
S 8.50 - 10.10 (woke happy)
E 10.15
A
S 12.30- 1.10 (woke happy)
A
E 2
A
S 3-4.45 (woke crying)
A
E 5.45
S 6.30

Night wakings: 6.45 (sh pat), 8 (shpat), 8.45 (sh pat/ pupd), 9.45 (BF x 2), 11.30 (shpat/ pupd), 1.10 (shpat/pupd), 1.30 (shpat/pupd), 2.10 (BF x 2), 4 (shpat/ pupd for 30 minutes), 6 (BF x 2), 7.45

As you can see the A times have got a bit longer, typically 2.15-2.30, although this still doesn't always guarantee a longer nap (but more often than before).  Also, she usually wakes up crying after her afternoon nap regardless of how long it was - confusing!  This morning all went to pot as i was so tired after last nights lack of sleep i fell asleep feeding her lying down, doh!  Yesterday seemed like a pretty good day in terms of routine and naps etc, she was a happy girl all day until she woke from her nap, then was pretty grumpy all evening until she went to bed, and then woke up repeatedly all night!  I don't get it, what did we do wrong???

Other information that might be useful...

Naps - I tend to AP her to sleep for naps, using the pram and white noise indoors, or by taking her for a walk int he pram outdoors.  I have tried putting her down for naps in her cot a few times and it's pretty hit and miss whether it works, and half the time i give up after 15 minutes of screaming and AP her to sleep as she hardly cries at all when i do it that way. 

Night time - My husband usually puts her to bed at night and puts her down awake after the bedtime routine so she can fall alseep on her own.  this worked really well for a while but now she moans a lot and usually he has to go back up and settle her again at least once at the 45-60 minute mark using sh pat and pupd.

I have to keep telling myself that however awful the nights are, at least she doesn't have to sleep in our bed anymore and she is able to settle herself sometimes which is a big improvement to the baby who would only be nursed/ sung and rocked to sleep and would only sleep on us/ in bed next to us a couple of months ago!   

Please help!
x

[Erin M]

Slow progress is good progress, just keep reminding yourself of that!

Anyway, I do wonder about this:

I tend to AP her to sleep for naps, using the pram and white noise indoors, or by taking her for a walk int he pram outdoors.

and if it is affecting her sleep.  If I were you, I might try working on just 1 nap with getting her to fall asleep independently, that way you're working on developing her independent sleep habits, but not driving yourself crazy with trying to get independent sleep for all of your naps. 

It looks to me like you're getting a great first nap and then the ones after that are still giving you some trouble.  If she's waking happy from the second one, you  might need to push that second A time a little bit to get a longer one there.  That third nap (which if you can hopefully get 2 longer earlier naps) should just end up being  a quick cat nap -- I always had such a time with that one with my dd1 and my ds -- they often woke up crying, I felt like I just couldn't get the rest of the day right so they'd either end up totally UT or OT by that point in the day -- I was so happy when they didn't need it anymore (more incentive to keep working on those first 2 naps, right?).

I'd also continue to look to see if discomfort is a cause too -- that many wakings usually indicates either discomfort or a prop, so I'd say there's a chance it could be either.