Dairy and constipation - any experience?

[Edesanja]

Bit TMI here! Turn away if you're eating!

DD just turned 5. As a baby she was dairy intolerant but has been back on dairy since 22 months. She always tended to have very loose BM (even when dairy free). In the past few years she has been wetting herself despite being toilet trained since 2 and then it turned into pooing herself at which point the GP said it was Encopresis and said she was actually constipated. The loose poo we had been getting was leakage.
So she's been on lactulose since Oct last year, but it's clear that we're just treating the symptoms not the cause. Because of her history with dairy I think she probably needs to be dairy free again, but it's a bit of a big step at this stage. It will be easy in the sense I have eaten dairy free while feeding both kids so I know what to do, but she's so much older now - knows what ice cream and all the rest tastes like and will know what she's missing.

Any BTDT experience with constipation and dairy in older kids? Or gluten I guess though my hunch is dairy. (but I have been eating low gluten for the past 9 months and feel better for it, so I guess it's a possibility)

[We Three]

^^ I have a hunch that dd's chronic constipation is dairy related, but I am ashamed to say I haven't trialled dairy free because it scares me.    She drinks almost no milk, but has yogurt every day, and dairy is in everything.    She was also MPI as a babe.
 I bought almond milk recently, and she was ok with it, I just saw it as rather void of nutrition. Not that she drinks alot of milk (she has a cup a day) but I feel panicked when I think of eliminating all of it.  She adores ice cream....it is her fave, fave, fave thing of all time. I just get so scared of the whole thought of it, so I have been sticking my head in the sand. Ugh....so awful to say that!

 FWIW, our holistic doctor says that the human body wasn't designed to deal with dairy after weaning. And that we are the only creatures who drink the milk of other mammals after weaning. He is always so stunned that this goes on...LOL.  I know when I stop and think about it, he's 100% right, but we are all so condtioned to consume dairy!

[ENMS]

FWIW, our holistic doctor says that the human body wasn't designed to deal with dairy after weaning. And that we are the only creatures who drink the milk of other mammals after weaning. He is always so stunned that this goes on...LOL.  I know when I stop and think about it, he's 100% right, but we are all so condtioned to consume dairy!

^^^^ this makes a lot of sense to me.

I'm in the same boat as you for my DS. I'm pretty sure dairy is not great or him, but he's on such a limited diet that I'm scared to take it away.

Is your DD having a balanced diet?

I'm wondering if keeping one thing, like yogurt which is the best dairy for the digestive system, in for now, and maybe trying to remove milk? I'm thinking that going one thing at a time is probably the best at that age. I would aim for a slow, progressive change. You can do ice cream with replacement milks. Here they sell lots of non-dairy frozen products such as this:

http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/coconut-milk-frozen-desserts
http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/almond-milk-frozen-desserts
http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/soy-milk-frozen-desserts

You can also make your own ice cream, I made some last week-end in my Vitamix, I used regular milk but the recipe said you could use just any milk as well, it could be a good replacement idea.

[We Three]

^^ My dd has a great diet....how about you, Edesanja?  Lots of fresh veggies, fruit, she has a varied and colorful diet, thankfully.

The thing is, for a true intolerance, elimination is the way to go I believe.    I believe that any amount of dairy is going to cause the same issues, if in fact the child is allergic or intolerant. 

[ENMS]

The thing is, for a true intolerance, elimination is the way to go I believe.    I believe that any amount of dairy is going to cause the same issues, if in fact the child is allergic or intolerant. 

For allergies, I agree, for intolerances I'm not sure, it depends on the type of intolerances (some people who are intolerant can do ok with small quantities of certain foods but not with bigger quantities) and what the child is intolerant to... if it is lactose, for example, there is very little left (probably none) in yogurt because the fermentation process has broken it down. It is similar with cheeses, some don't contain any lactose. If it is the protein, then I think it's the same in any dairy I don't think it really gets broken down.

I was suggesting gradual elimination just because at 5 years old, it may easier to replace one thing at a time, rather than do a full overhaul of the diet. I know I probably wouldn't have the courage to remove all dairy from DD's diet. By doing it slowly and having alternatives your child is going to like, it may be easier on her. Alternatively, if you do it all at once, she may realize that she's feeling better without the dairy and be happy to cut it from her diet

[Edesanja]

I see what you are both saying, but I think I'm leaning towards cutting out all dairy because that's the best way to check that dairy is the problem and then add yoghurt to see if that makes a difference or see if it's a level of tolerance thing and it builds up but she can tolerate a little bit IYKWIM.

Ice cream is my favourite thing in the world too. That was really HARD for me to give up when I was dairy free while feeding them both. But I had a great recipe that just used coconut milk and berry jelly (as in jello). Problem is that I don't like giving DD berry flavoured jelly because of the colouring etc. I wonder if I could make my own using frozen berries and gelatine??

E has milk on her cereal - I know that is easy enough to swap out and I think I'd go for oat milk. She does like drinking milk too, but I think I could convince her not too or replace it with other milk. She has yoghurt frequently for lunch, loves ice cream, we have cheese in lasagne and other dishes etc. Ugh some things will be ok, but others ugh so so hard. And especially when going to parties etc. And we go to the ILs for dinner with the whole family (at least 23 of us - it's mad!) once a week and that's a dairy-fest. It was so hard for me when I was dairy free let alone for her to do. Plus I find since I eat low gluten, it just means we eat more dairy. It will be really hard to cook low gluten plus dairy free without doing separate meals I fear.

Anne, remind me of what happens to Amelia when she has chocolate? Hives is it? I have always wondered about E and chocolate after eating chocolate cake at birthday parties. We had chocolate cake for her birthday (plus J's birthday is just 3 days before and he had a chocolate cake too so we were eating cake for days) then the next week was Easter where she had chocolate every day for like a week. After all that it was very clear that E + chocolate = bad! It was just like chocolate in= chocolate out. Just 


Ok ladies, we need someone with BTDT experience to come along and convince us to make the jump -that it's worth it!

[ZacsMumme]

Jenny just posting hugs
If your DD likes bananas there is a banana ice cream recipe that is coconut milk and banana I think floating around

[Edesanja]

She's not hugely fussed on bananas. Will eat them sometimes but I don't think I can convice her enough to replace ice cream! She doesn't really like coconut milk either, but does lie the coconut milk + jelly recipe that I was talking about.

[ZacsMumme]

Sorbet?
http://allrecipes.com.au/recipe/7542/raspberry-swirl-sorbet.aspx
Hey the cryingoverspiltmilk site has a FB group for re ipes you could try asking in? http://www.facebook.com/groups/CryingOverSpiltMilkRecipes/
Lite licks?

So much harder when they know what they like!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Spencer has been dairy free her whole life due to intolerance. Constipation and ezcema were the main symptoms for her. Just recently have been giving her yogurt just to see. Need to try milk next but waiting until i'm on mat leave. Dairy free was pretty easy as she didnt know what she was missing but Masyn recently eliminated dairy on her own with no real issues.

[We Three]

Yes Jenny, dd gets hives from chocolate.

 I hear what you're saying, ENM about lactose and trying to eliminate things a little at a time, but I do agree with Jenny that the most 'ideal' way to figure things out is to remove 'everything' and see where you are, then it is easier to add things back one at a time and see what's what.

 It would be the best news if in fact I found that dd was lactose intolerant and not allergic to milk. Then she could likely still have yogurt and most cheese.  I could figure out ice cream I think, but OMG what would we do without pizza?  I hear that there is an ice cream called "rice dream" that is supposed to be awesome.

Ok Jenny......you go first.     

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hmmm must try and find this rice dream! 

[Edesanja]

Ok Jenny......you go first.     

Argh!!!!  I have to get DH on board first. He doesn't really see it as a problem. Lactulose is simpler than dairy free in his mind.

When I was dairy free I used to still make pizza with all the usual toppings except cheese. It was still yum! I added garlic salt for extra flavour. But then maybe it was only nice because I knew I only had to eat it for a time? 

[We Three]

Hedii.....look here: My local health food store carries it...

   http://www.tastethedream.com/products/rd_frozen.php

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Thanks Anne...I have seen other rice dream stuff at one of our stores, I guess I just need to give the freezer section a closer look (Spencer used to hate cold food, so I have never tried to find an ice cream alternate for her, but I know the first day of school here one of the churches brings ice cream for all the kids, would be nice for her to have something as well!)