EW and multiple NWs for the past 48h + (and I am going crazy!).

[SDER]

Hello ladies,

After a few sleepless nights, I am now at wits end and do not know what to do anymore.

A little info:
- My son is only three days shy of being 6 months.
- He is breastfed
- He has been on EASY since he was 6 weeks old (switched to 4h EASY gradually around the 4.5 month mark)
- We recently (a little over 2 weeks ago) weaned off the pacifier and swaddle with PUPD
- We've also been working on the 3-2 transition as he was showing all the signs of readiness

This is what my EAS looks like for the past 48h:
May 17 (14 days after start of PUPD, day 3 of no CN)
WU ≈ 7 :00
E → 7 :25
A (getting cranky and extra cuddly around 9 :20 – wind down @ 9 :30)
S → 9 :40 – 10 :15 & 10 :30 – 11 :10
WU → 10 :15 cranky but not crying, let him try to sort himself out 10 minutes.
          10 :25 help him fall back asleep – soothe with voice
          11 :10 cranky
E → 11 :15
A (getting cranky around 13 :45 – wind down @ 13 :55)
S → 14 :05 – 15 :35
E → 15 :40
A
E → 17 :55
A Bath and wind down, 6 :30 put down
S → 18 :50
NW1 → 21 :30 (soothe 5 min – minimal interventions)
NW2 → 22 :40 (soothe 5 min – minimal interventions)
NW3 (NF1) → 00 :35 – 10 min. (actively sucking ≈ 7 min)
S → 00 :55 (soothe with voice, minimal interventions)
NW4 → 02 :15 (soothe with voice 5 min – minimal interventions)
NW5 (NF2) → 03 :15 – 10 min. (actively sucking ≈ 7 min) * Usually I’d wait because it hasn’t been 4 hours, but I was tired from all the previous NWs and just wanted to get back to sleep quickly…
S → 03 :30 (no fussing/crying so no soothing)
EW → 05 :40 up for the day

May 18
E → 06 :20
A
S → 08 :35 (no fussing/crying, fell asleep within seconds of being put in crib)
E → 10 :00
A
E → 12 :20
A Start wind down 12 :50, in bed @ 13 :00
S → 13 :10
E → 14 :40
A (was actually expecting him to CN in the car for 10-15 min, after getting in at 17h, but he didn't...)
E → 17 :25
A
S → 18 :30
NW1 → 21 :30
NW2 (NF1) → 22 :30
S → 22 :45 (no fussing/crying)
NW3 → 23 :55
NW 4 (NF2) → 01 :15
S → 01 :22
NW5 → 03 :10 (wake up crying/super cranky with me, when dad took over, he was all smiles and cooing)
S → 04 :00
NW6 (NF3) EW → 05 :00 (try to soothe back to sleep
                                → 5:30 got out of crib (super good mood *sigh*)

*Pulls out hair*  I'm not so slowly returning to Mombie state right now.

On the second day (and night), you'll notice that I was nursing more often, this is because when I picked him up because he was being fussy around those times, he would throw himself sideways and try to nurse through my shirt so I figured that he was hungry (perhaps due to a GS).

However, I'm wondering if it isn't comfort nursing due to teething (maybe?  I don't know; when his bottom teeth cut nearly a month ago he was cranky but not wanting to nurse all the time.)

I reckon he was probably OT for the last 2 evenings (3+ h A time), but usually, it doesn't affect his nighttime sleep to that extent.

I also know that he's getting for wonder week #26 - he recently learned to roll over from tummy to back and has now taken to rotating in his crib at night...

So, what do you reckon I can tweak?  Are the NWs just a melting pot of different factors and something I just have to live with until it passes or are there things that I can concretely do?

Apologies if the post is all over the place - I am rather sleep-deprived at the moment.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

[PaulsMom]

Hugs!  sleep deprivation is sooo hard. 

Oh, there is always so much going on at the 6 month mark.  The frequency of nw's makes me think of discomfort.  I'm assuming that your DS was sleeping better at night. 

It could be teething.  My DD got 4 teeth between 6 and 6.5 months and was bf all. the. time.  especially at night.  Are you providing any pain relief at night? 

Have you started solids?  Some discomfort could be due to new foods, etc. 

the WW / developmental milestones will also disrupt sleep. About the only thing you can do about developmental milestones is allow lots of time during the day to practice and ride it out.  Sorry I don't have better suggestions. 

your routine looks alright. It's hard to have a perfect EASY and I see that a shorter A doesn't lead to fewer nw's  so at the moment i'm not sure if I'd change the routine too much given everything else that's going on. 

[SDER]

Meh, I figured that it was probably due to the melting pot of factors

Once we weaned off the the paci and swaddle (and before we needed to ) we would get 2 maybe 3 NW, so yes, he was sleeping better before.  Also, we haven't started solids yet (planning on starting Wednesday, but will be doing one meal of BLW at lunch per day so I don't think he'll be getting much at first).

I am not providing any pain relief at night, perhaps it will be worth a try tonight if he has a whole lot of NWs again.

Thanks for you reply!

[katie80]

Have you seen any change with pain meds, hon?  I found the top two to be a bit tougher than the bottom fronts. 

He looks a bit OT to me, also.  It's so tough, because if you can't APOP a CN in the 3/2, sometimes you just have to go with it.  Have you ever tried an EBT, more like 6-6:30pm?

[SDER]

Well, things are not getting any better.

My last 2 days look like this:

19 May
05 :30 → up for the day awake since 05:00
A → 05:00 - 07:30 (2.5h)
E →07 :00
S → 07 :30 (1.5h)
E → 9 :00 (2h since last E)
A → 09:00 - 12:00 (3h)
S → CN in car 12 :00 – 12 :15
        12 :15 put down in crib.
E → 12 :30 (3.5h since last feed) I usually try to get him to fall back asleep for longer, but since we were nearing E time, I thought he might be hungry.
A → 12:15 - 14:40 (2h25min despite only a 15 min CN)
S → 14 :40 – 15 :30 (50min)
A → 15:30 - 18:45 (3h15min)
E → 16 :00 (3.5h since last feed)
A → 18 :00 start bedtime ritual, in bed @18 :20
S → 18 :45
NW1 → 21 :45
NW2 (NF1) → 23 :50 (7h50 min since last feed), asleep @ 00:00
NW3 → 02 :00, ended up doing PUPD until fell asleep @ 03:00
NW4 (NF2) → 4 :15 (nurse 15 min), fell asleep at the breast, didn't wake up when put in crib
WU → 06 :30 up for day
Total A time: 11h10 min
Total nap time: 2h35 min
Total Nighttime S : 10h15 min

May 20th
06 :30 → Up for the day (awake since? I woke up to him chattering at 6:15)
E → 07 :05
A → 06:30 - 08:30 (2h)
S → 08 :30 - 09:30 (1h)
A → 09 :30 - 12:15 (2h45min)
E → 10 :30 (3.5 h since last feed)
S → 12 :15 – 12 :50 & 13 :00 – 14 :30 (2h05min)
E → 14 :30 (4h since last feed)
A → 14:30 - 16:20 - 18:15 (my partner was watching DS and tried to put him down after 2h of A because he misread his "I'm bored watching you play on your computer" signal for his "I'm tired" signal  - needless to say, DS wasn't happy and screamed in his crib until DP took him out at 17:50 when I got home) (3h45min A)
E → 17 :50 (3h20min since last feed)
A → start bedtime routine @ 18 :05 - we gave tempra as per PaulsMom's suggestion to see if NW were due to teething discomfort.
S→ 18 :15
NW1 → 19 :30
NW2 → 21 :15
NW3 → 22 :15
NW4 (NF1)→ 23 :15 10 min (5h25min since last feed), asleep @ 23:35
NW5 (NF2) → 02 :55 10 min (3h40min since last feed), asleep @ 03:00
WU 06 :00
Total A time: 8h30min (wow, that seems on the really low side...)
Total nap time: 3h05min
Total sleep time: 10h35min

Just a week ago, we were on a solid 4h easy and working on the 3-2 transition because DS was going down for two 1.5h naps and was able to do a 2h45 -3h A time.  We would get 2 NW (NFs), sometimes 3 NW (still just 2 NFs) and his day would start at 6:30-7am.  Now, well, our EASY is a mess and nights are a mess and we're getting 5am EWs.

I don't know, is this more a matter of the EASY or getting back on track board?  I honestly don't know what to do anymore and am having more and more trouble reading my son's signals.  He seems to be tired a lot (but fights sleep), seems to be wanting to nurse a lot (but only doesn't seem to do much more than comfort nurse pas 5 min).

Sorry about the length of this, I'm keeping pretty detailed notes on my days to try to see a pattern.

I should add that he is always waking up grumpy from naps and the only time he's in a good mood is when he's chattering in his crib in the morning and when I finally give up on getting him down for a nap or prolonging a nap...

Again, thank you for your input!

[katie80]

(((Hugs))) hon, you're welcome to stay here for now if you'd like. Or, you can post on EASY if you'd like specific EASY help. I think he's just gotten a bit OT from the push to 2 naps and possibly the WW/teething/GS combination.

I'd try squeezing in a short CN (APOP 10-15min even) if the second nap ends before 3/3:30. Or, give an early BT (like 6pm) to see if he'll catch up on some missed sleep.  Those early NWs seem OT to me.

I'd also try to stick as close to 2.5-3hr A as possible, as even though he's more tired, he's not often getting a better nap on a shorter A time and that is making for a wonky rest of the day.

How did yesterday go? I'd say the night from 6:15pm-6am with 3 early NW and 2 feeds wasn't all that bad.

[SDER]

Hi,

thanks again for your reply.  Yesterday was better (except for the first horrific NW).

A :6 - 9 (3h), put in crib @ 8:30 and had to help him fall asleep
S: 9 - 9:30 (30 min) stopped trying to prolong after 20 min.
A: 9:30 - 12:30 (3h), put in crib @ 12:20
S: 12:30 - 13:40 (50 min) did not try to prolong because time to nurse
A: 13:40 - 15:40 (2h), was showing tired cues so wind down and put in crib @ 15:35
S: 15:40 - 16:20 (40 min)
A: 16:20 - 19:10 (2h50min)
NW1 (NF1): 22:00 - 23:00 after an hour of trying to soothe my screaming-himself-hoarse baby (after waiting to see if he would settle by himself), I gave in and nursed.  By then it had been 5h since his last feed.  He suckled for about 3 min before promptly falling asleep at the breast.  He woke up when I put him in his crib and alternated between semi-crying, fussing and chatting for 20 min.  I calmed him down twice with words and he fell asleep.
NW2: 1:50 - 03:00 whining/chatting/kicking his legs (I started to calm him down with words at around 2:45 and did so a couple of times)
NW3 (NF2): 4:25 nursed actively 20 min
WU: 6:50 up for the day

I think that he was indeed OT for the other nights, because last night he had a pretty normal night with 3 NWs and his last A time was just shy of 3h (and he had no A time over 3h for the first time in a few days!).  I suspect he probably would have fallen asleep more quickly had I nursed immediately at his first NW but I wasn't sure that he was genuinely hungry; after all, he seemed to just do some comfort nursing.

It took a lot of self-control to not just go in and soothe right away at NW #2, but I think it was good that I allowed him to try to sort himself out.  I stayed in the spare bedroom and I think I actually fell asleep a couple of times before having to intervene and before he finally fell asleep for good.

He also got up at a more normal hour.

I'm going to keep running with a 2.5h - 3h A time.  I'll probably have to wear him to prolong some A times (he's so cuddly these days, it's crazy!). 

Today, our first nap was more difficult because he fell asleep in the car when we came back from the pediatrician's office (it would seem that he's not teething after all, and she did not find anything else to explain the frequent NWs), but I was actually able to get him to fall back asleep after letting him whine and calming him a couple of times with my voice for 30 minutes (this is the first time I am ever able to prolong a nap that started in the car).

I'll keep in mind to try a CN or EBT if the second nap ends before 15:00 - 15:30.

I may yet survive motherhood! 

I'll run with this new plan for a couple of days and come back to give an update.

[katie80]

I suspect he probably would have fallen asleep more quickly had I nursed immediately at his first NW but I wasn't sure that he was genuinely hungry; after all, he seemed to just do some comfort nursing.

TBH, if I suspected we might be in a GS or WW or a nap transition, I was much more generous in just feeding if it had already been 4ish hr to try to minimize the disruptions.  If you're worried about becoming a prop, you might not want to do that, but if you are still able to settle other ways and he's going down independently during the day, I don't think it's too big of a deal.

I may yet survive motherhood!

You will!  But, I know it doesn't feel like it some days!   (((Hugs))), it sounds like you have a good plan... let us know how it goes.

[SDER]

Just thought I'd pop in and say that NWs seem to have resolved themselves - we're back to our usual 2 a night (both of which are NFs) *sigh of relief*.  Of course, we've started struggling with naps (OT naps), but I suspect (light bulb moment popped today) that it may be because my son has a 5-5:30am EW, but we only hear him stir around 6-6:30am.  I put him down after 2h A time following a horrible 30 min. nap this AM and he slept 1.5h  .  Keeping my fingers crossed for the pm nap.

[PaulsMom]

Yay!  Glad things are going well!

[katie80]

Thanks for the update!  Glad to hear the NWs are better!

[SDER]

Hello ladies.

Still having a bit of an issue with NW and though it has changed somewhat, I decided to use this thread again.

For the past week (maybe more?  I really don't know anymore) my son has been going down OK for naps and bedtime.  Whereas he used to go a good 6h between nursings on his first sleep, now he wakes after 4-5h.  That hasn't really been an issue though as he goes back down OK (he'll usually fall asleep at the breast, wake when he hits the crib, whine a bit and fall asleep).

The issue is that his second NW now happens between 2-3h after his first (generally 2h) NW.  I always wait to see if he can sort himself out before intervening.  Then, I'll start with my voice and eventually move on to PUPD.  The thing is though, he spends his time screaming.  He'll calm down for a tiny bit and then start screaming again.  This lasts until we come up on 1h-1.5h of awake time, upon which time I nurse him.  After that he falls back asleep and will wake around 6:30.

Tonight takes the cake, though.  He again woke up 2h after his first NW but just wasn't able to settle - despite being nursed.  Right now, he's sleeping on me.

We started solids a little over 2 weeks ago, it's been going well despite a few bumps in the road due to food intolerances.
I'm pretty sure he's teething again, however the tempra hasn't had an impact on his sleep.
We're still nursing pretty consistently at around 6:30, 10:30, 14:30, 18:30, 22:30, 2:30.

What on Earth is going on?  Any thoughts?

Thanks

[PaulsMom]

Ohh hugs for the NWs.  That sounds really rough.

The thing is though, he spends his time screaming

this to me, says discomfort.  You mention food intolerances, what solids has he tried?  You could back off on the solids and see if this makes a difference or just give him really mild foods like pear or squash/pumpkin. 

WRT teething meds, lots of moms say that ibuprofen works better than acetaminophen.  Might be worth a try if you feel comfortable with giving it to him.  Has he cut any teeth?

[SDER]

Yeah, I was thinking discomfort as well.  Poor little guy

I know he's intolerant to lactose (yay...) and tomatoes for now.  We're sticking with foods we know are OK (or seem OK because his skin isn't breaking out in a ginormous rash) like sweet potatoes, eggs and avocado.

I tried tempra (can't remember if that's ibuprofen than acetaminophen).  He cut his bottom two teeth a little over a month ago and his top two are definitely working on pushing out haven't cut yet.

[PaulsMom]

Tempra is acetaminophen so you could try ibuprofen for teething.

Wrt foods, I have heard that eggs are allergenic so you might want to hold off on giving those given he has some known intolerances.  Lots of the veg are fairly good to give though.