Author Topic: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds  (Read 1305 times)

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Offline Caroline5555

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7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« on: May 22, 2013, 09:20:26 am »
Until our LO was 6 months old, she was a textbook baby who followed Tracey's 4 hour EASY routine well. Since then, things have been all over the place and she's 7.5 months old now. She was fully breastfed till 6 months, and I now breastfeed morning and evening and formula feed her the rest of the time.

At first we put her new lack of routine down to going abroad for a week and beginning to wean her, then due to her growing up and needing longer A times. Then a week ago she was ill with a vomiting bug so completely went off her food and now she's intermittently teething. Because there always seems to be a "reason" as to why she's off track, we are being led by her, but I now feel there's always going to be an "excuse" and if I don't get her back on track soon I'm going to go mad with tiredness.

Our problems are early wakening (5-5:30), night feeding, still needing the dream feed, often not napping as well as she used to in the day - so we have a lot to sort out! The one thing she is pretty good at is going to sleep on her own, as we never put her down asleep. I decided three days ago that my priority was to cut out the night feed (usually 2-2:30am), so I planned to gradually give her less formula and to water it down a bit. The first two nights she woke at 2am and actually refused the bottle! I changed her nappy and she went back to sleep! Then last night at 2ish she was hungry, so I gave her 3oz formula, changed her nappy and tried to settle her. She screamed continuously for 30 mins and as I was so tired, I gave up and breastfed her, as I knew she was still hungry. Maybe I should have persisted, but she really was showing no signs of going back to sleep. I am totally exhausted and really need your help and advice as to what to do and where to start.

Here are her timings for the past two days:

05:20 E (big breastfeed)
         A
07:20 Breakfast (very small)
07:40 S
09:20 A
10:00 E (4.5oz formula)
11:30 S
12:45 Lunch (only 3 mouthfuls)
         A
14:40 E (5oz)
         A
15:45 S
16:25 A
17:30 Dinner (only 3 mouthfuls)
17:50 E (breast)
18:45 S (after small extra breastfeed)
22:15 DF (3oz)
00:00 Woke for 15mins, no milk offered
01:40 Woke for 40mins, declined milk
05:20 E (breast)
         A
08:20 S
10:00 E (6oz)
          A
11:30 S
12:15 A
12:45 Lunch (medium amount)
         A
14:15 E (3oz)
         A
15:35 S
16:00 A
16:30 Dinner (good amount)
          A
18:20 E (breast)
19:00 S
22:20 DF (4oz)
02:30 Woke for 45mins, had 3oz formula, then breastfeed
05:15 Woke, tried to settle unsuccessfully
05:45 E (breast)
06:15 S
07:20 A
08:20 Breakfast (reasonable amount)
          A
09:45 E (5oz)
          A

It is now 10:15 and I suspect she'll want a nap soon.....hopefully!

As you can see, the amount she eats is pretty variable. She used to eat more, but maybe her sore teeth and recent tummy bug have put her off a bit?

Thank you for your comments and advice.

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 18:35:49 pm »
Hugs on nw's.  it's tough when you are tired. 

Ok, a few things I've noticed.  Wrt her routine, I've noticed that the first A is pretty short and I'm wondering if that could get bumped out gradually so that she up for 2.75 to 3 hrs which is more be appropriate for her.  If she's up longer then she hopefully will nap better.

Here's a link to the average A times by age Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! . Note that once their A time exceeds 2.5 hrs or so, they may not have a perfect 4 hr easy.  Their milk feeds may be every 5 hrs or so depending on how long they nap.

The ew's are really messing up her routine.  What I was going to suggest is what you did this morning and feed her and per her back in her crib.  She may treat the 5 am feed as a night feed and then wake at a more reasonable hour.

As for the feeding and nw's.  is she 100% over the tummy bug?  This will put a damper on eating (especially solids) but breast milk will be very good for her.  At this point in time, I wouldn't worry about the quantity of solid food she is eating.  She's still in the learning phase so if she doesn't eat too many solids, that's ok. Teething can also put Los off food.  Some may want to bf more often or may be, they are hungry but the sucking hurts so they unlatch and cry. 

Wrt the df, she's taking a little bit but its not a full feed.  It looks like sometimes she needs to feed at night Vs other nights she's fine without.  At this point in time, I might be inclined to keep it for another few weeks and then reassess where she's at.  She might be able to go without in a few weeks time.

HTH

Offline Caroline5555

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Re: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 10:35:57 am »
Thank you SO much for taking the time to reply, it makes such a difference to know that other people understand and are there to make sensible suggestions.

I will definitely try to increase her first A time of the day, in fact this morning she managed 3hr 20min, which was a good start. I will also keep trying to get her back to sleep after her EWs, though I'm afraid it didn't work this morning: she woke at 5:40 and after an hour of feeding and trying to get her back to sleep, I gave up and we both got up and started our day...

I do think she's over her tummy bug, though I realise that maybe I've been pushing the solids a bit more than necessary (I often spend 30-40mins persuading her to eat, so should probably give her a bit of a break!) Sucking doesn't appear to hurt as she doesn't cry or come off when feeding.

I will keep the DF for the moment. A couple of weeks ago it looked like she might be gradually dropping the 11am feed, but now I'm not so sure (she took 6oz today). I assume it would be best to continue to offer this feed for the time being, to maximise her daytime calorie intake?

Last night when she woke as usual at 2am, I gave her 3oz of formula, changed her nappy and then tried to settle her, even though I know she would have taken more milk, in an attempt to wean her off this night feed. It took 40mins before she went back to sleep (I'm visiting my parents at the moment so my fab Dad took over for a while). Is this the right thing to be doing, I.e. is it reasonable to try and cut out this night feed and if so, is it best to do so gradually or just stop it?

Also, I know Tracey says to not change their nappy overnight unless they are soiled or soaked through, but I have begun to change it when she wakes at 2am, as it is usually pretty full of wee by then and I know she's happier with a clean nappy. Should I stop doing this so that she doesn't get used to it and therefore continue to wake at this time?

Thank you again for your help and support, it is MUCH appreciated.




Offline Caroline5555

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Re: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 10:46:30 am »
Sorry, two more things I forgot to ask:

1. With the DF, I sometimes do it just before I go to bed (which would be just after 10pm) and sometimes go to bed myself and then just wait till she stirs for it (which would usually be around 11pm). It feels horrid having had less than an hours sleep and then having to feed her, but do you think the latter method may actually be better, as it's a bit later and so she might be more hungry and therefore take more and then sleep longer? Or is the first method better because then she's actually asleep when I do the feed, plus at some point I'll want to drop this feed, so will begin bringing it earlier anyway???

2. She was born at 37 weeks and I do find she's always a few weeks behind other babies who were born later, with respect to milestones like rolling, sitting etc. Should I use her gestational age or actual age when thinking about A times etc?

Thank you

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 15:36:37 pm »
Quote (selected)
in fact this morning she managed 3hr 20min
  wow, that's a great start!

Unfortunately, yes, sometimes they just want to wake up early  :-\.  I always try the feed and put back in her crib with my DD to buy a bit of extra sleep, if at all possible. 

WRT food, I know it's hard not to get over enthusiastic when feeding them and I have to continually remind myself that milk is still the most important food for her right now.  I would try to maintain 4 day time feeds for the time being.  Usually closer to 1 yo, they can start to drop the mid-day feeds and milk /dairy products can be substituted at meal times. 

Quote (selected)
in an attempt to wean her off this night feed. It took 40mins before she went back to sleep (I'm visiting my parents at the moment so my fab Dad took over for a while). Is this the right thing to be doing, I.e. is it reasonable to try and cut out this night feed and if so, is it best to do so gradually or just stop it?
 
yay for dads!  That's awesome!  In terms of weaning night feeds, I think you can do either a gradual withdrawal of the feed (ie. less food in the bottle or less time on the breast over the course of a week to 10 days or so) or just stop it completely and opt for the re-settling. A note about less food in the bottle, you could water down the formula so she's getting the same volume but is taking in fewer calories as one option vs just putting fewer oz in the bottle.  If your DD is eating well during the day and doesn't have any medical conditions, likely she doesn't "need" to be fed during the night.  By all accounts, she probably is hungry but really, so am I in the middle of the night!  Doesn't mean that I eat though.  So some of this is habit.  Changing any habit will cause some crying and be upsetting so you need to be prepared for that.

WRT changing diapers in the MOTN, if it helps to settle her, then I would do it.  some babies are really bothered by a wet diaper whereas others don't notice at all.  Of course, she may continue to wake for this reason rather than for another reason but perhaps you can get some super absorbent diapers so she doesn't feel the wetness?

Quote (selected)
With the DF, I sometimes do it just before I go to bed (which would be just after 10pm) and sometimes go to bed myself and then just wait till she stirs for it (which would usually be around 11pm). It feels horrid having had less than an hours sleep and then having to feed her, but do you think the latter method may actually be better, as it's a bit later and so she might be more hungry and therefore take more and then sleep longer? Or is the first method better because then she's actually asleep when I do the feed, plus at some point I'll want to drop this feed, so will begin bringing it earlier anyway???
 
I agree, it does feel awful to be woken up one hr into sleep.  I think that the idea behind the dream feed is to literally feed them in their sleep so with minimal disruption.  Based on this, I would feed just before you go to bed and before she wakes on her own. 

WRT stopping the df, here some info:  "How do I implement/drop the dreamfeed?"

As for A times, these are all approximate and will depend on your baby.  it may vary a bit (e.g. 10-15 min) from day to day depending on how she's doing (eg. teething, sick, poor night sleep, short nap, etc).  So I wouldn't work that she was born at 37 weeks but rather follow her cues.  by 7.5 months, they can usually handle around 3 hrs.  Sometimes you might find that her A times increase over the course of the day (e.g. my DD has around a 3 hr A in the morning and mid-day but her A until BT is longer.  She handles it fine) or be longer in the morning and then get a bit shorter over the course of the day.  this is alright too.

HTH
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 15:38:43 pm by PaulsMom »

Offline Caroline5555

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Re: 7 month old still having DF and night feeds
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 22:59:05 pm »
Thank you so much for replying so promptly and for all your advice.

I'm going to try everything you've suggested, particularly regarding dropping the night feed (think I'll stick to the gradual approach). It's just hard knowing you're going to have a tough few nights when you're so knackered to start with!

Anyway, I'll try to keep at it and will let you know how I get on...