Constant night wakings - 6 months old

[alemattos]

I need help! I don't know how to fix this!

DS just turned 6 months old on May 23rd. He was a good sleeper until he became 4 months old and he started waking up at night almost every hour. This is when we started the 4-hour EASY and things got a little better, but never perfect. Once he slept from 8 till 5:30, and another night until 4:30. This was the best we got.

I've been doing PUPD to put him down at night and for naps and wake-to-sleep to extend his naps, since he was never a good napper. His naps were always 45min long. Now I can get 1:15-1:25, but sometimes I just get 30-45min. He now goes down pretty quickly (both for naps and at night) and we saw him waking up from a nap after 30 min and going back to sleep by himself, so I know he learned how to self soothe.

We also have been trying to make him wake up at 7am, which is almost impossible. He is up at 6 everyday, but since he goes down around 8pm, and have so many night wakings, I feel like he doesn't have enough sleep.

As I said our nights were never near perfect, and actually, after being up every hour, I was happy waking up 2-3 times a night, but I am getting tired again of all the night wakings. We can easily put him back to sleep when he wakes up at night just replacing a pacifier, putting him on his side, and patting o his back, but we are exhausted. He sleeps in his crib, and unswaddled. Also, I am EBF, and starting to introduce solids.

This is what his schedule looks like:
6:00 - wake up and we try to put him down for another hour. We do PUPD, or anything we can for him to sleep longer, but he rarely does.
7:00 - eat (wake up and feed and he sleeps a little more)
7:30 - activity
8:45-9:15/10 - sleep (Rarely I can keep him until 9, cause most of the times he is awake since 6)
10:00 - wakes up from nap and we just cuddle, do a low profile activity to wait for his feed. I give him a taste of solid food, but he is still not being able to eat a lot. He is just experimenting one thing at a time.
11:00 - eat
11:30 - activity
1:00-1:45/2:15 - sleep
2:15 - wakes up from nap and we just cuddle, do a low profile activity to wait for his feed.
3:00 - eat
3:30 - activity
5:00 - catnap
5:45 - activity
6:45 - bath
7:00 - eat
7:45-8 - sleep
10:30/11 - Dreamfeed

Then he wakes up at night around, 1:30, 2:30, 4, and 6, on average. He also wakes up before his dreamfeed, around 9:30.

Please, help!

[PaulsMom]

Hi there! 

Hugs.  It's so hard when they are sleeping poorly.  The one thing I've noticed about your routine is that his A times are very long for his age.  Most 6 month olds are doing 2 hr to 2.25 hrs whereas you are doing closer to 3 hrs.  I would back off on the A times so that he's up for a total of 2 hrs to 2.25 hrs and see how he does.  Also around this age some babies start to drop the CN but they need do have longer naps so at the moment I'd focus on a shorter A and see if he naps better.  If he's less OT, you may find that he wakes less often at night too. 

Also, I notice that you are re-plugging his paci at night. Do you think that the paci is a prop?  If so, then you may want to consider teaching him to re-plug himself or getting rid of it altogether.  My DS was a paci addict and didn't sleep well until we weaned him.  Other moms will have their Los re plug themselves and then it's not a problem. 

HTH

[alemattos]

Thank you!!!
I am going to try having less A time, but the problem is that I can't make him nap longer and he is waking up really early in the morning.

Would this be a good schedule?
6:00 - wake up an feed
6:30 - activity
8:30 - sleep (hopefully until 10-10:30)
10-10:30 - feed (what of he wakes up too early from his nap? Should I do everything earlier?)
11:00 - activity
12:30 - sleep (until 2-2:30)
2:30 - feed
3:00 - activity
4:30 - catnap??? (Until 5-5:15)
Then should I keep his bedtime the same, or make it earlier?

I will start something like this tomorrow. If you have any other comment, I would lie to hear.

Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted on how things went.

[alemattos]

About the paci...

I think the paci could be a prop, but sometimes he doesn't want it. I think the side lying position could be the problem actually. Sometimes he will turn himself, but other times he just doesn't.

[PaulsMom]

yes, that routine looks good.  If he wakes early, try to extend the nap but if he doesn't go back to sleep, then give him a bit of A time before BF so that the milk feeds are still more or less 3.5 to 4 hrs apart.  With short napping your EASY may end up looking more like EASAEAS, etc.   

I would aim for a BT of around 7 pm if you can manage it. For the time being keep the CN but keep in mind that likely he will drop it in 3-5 weeks time.  The key here will be to get him napping better.

WRT the paci, you can keep it.  If it's he's rolling around and waking because he ends up in a funny position, then I would recommend giving him lots of floor time during the day so he has time to practice.  With time, he'll grow out of this but unfortunately you just have to ride this out. 

The other thing is if your little guy is very active, I would recommend giving him lots of opportunity for physical activity during the first 1/2 to 2/3s of his A time then let him have some more low key activities as it gets closer to nap time.  I always found that my DS sleep better once he was physically tired but I had to be careful not to get him OS prior to the nap so I'd do low key stuff, like looking out the window, reading stories, etc.

Good luck and let me know how he does tomorrow.

[katie80]

Hi there, you're getting great advice from PaulsMom already. Just wanted to pop on and ask a little bit about how you're doing PUPD. PUPD and the paci don't mix unless LO is able to replug himself.  It does sound like the paci and being put on his side could be props in the middle of the night. If you want to keep the paci, I'd start working on having him do the replugging and then settling him in whatever position you find him in (back, tummy, side). He may not like it the first few times, but he will either learn to sleep in a new position or will figure out how to get to his side. Like PaulsMom said, lots of practice during the day will help this.

As for the routine, I think it looks good. I'd probably try to move that second nap to 1pm though, if you get a good morning nap. OT isn't fun, but you don't want a UT fight either.

[alemattos]

Thank you, Paulsmom! I will try that schedule ttomorrow!

Hi katie80,

About PUPD and paci:

I actually don't have to do PUPD anymore. I did it to teach him how to sleep without me rocking him. Now, we just have a consistent nap and bedtime routine where I put some classical piano and we dance for 5 min until he is in sleep mode, but not sleeping, and I lay him down with his lovey and paci.

We used his paci to help him fall back asleep quicker after night wakings, but tonight we will try to just shush/pat him.

Thank you for your help too!

[katie80]

Sounds good... keep us posted.

[alemattos]

i haven been waiting to have good news before coming back here, but I am afraid I don't have them yet.

Some questions/things I noticed:
1: sometimes for naps we need to rock him to sleep because he doesn't wake up crying or anything. He is just there and he starts playing with his lovey. If I don't take action he won't sleep. I usually wait a little bit to see if he will fall back asleep. Rarely he does, and when he doesn't, if I wait too long, I am not able to get him back sleeping
2: I don't know what to do if he wakes up too early, like this morning. Should I rock him back to sleep? Should we start our day (which would be horrible for me)?
3: We are not using paci at NW anymore and he's been doing fine.
4: Should I try extending A to cut the catnap?

Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

This is what happened the past 4 nights (and days):

May 26
E 6:23 WU and feed
A
S 8:28 (1:30)
E 10:25
A
S 12:30 (40 min + 50 min - I had to rock him back to sleep, or he wouldn't sleep anymore)
E 2:27
A
E 6:28
S 7:11 (NW: 7:40, 9:40, 10:40 then I fed him, and 1:30 but he had a leakage)

May 27
E 6:00 WU and feed
A
S 8:06 (1:12)
E10:09
A
S 12:20 (48 min + 55 min - again had to rock him back to sleep)
E 2:25
A
S 4:25 (32 min)
E 6:30
A
S 7:49 (NW: 1:15 and 3:15 with leakage - we bought all different brands and types of diapers to fix this, and now we think we did)

May 28
E 6:38 WU and feed
A
S 8:52 (1:47 - had to rock him to sleep after 47 min)
E 10:53
A
S 1:08 (1:15)
E 2:49
A
E 6:34
S 6:56 ( NW: 9:15, 10 then I fed him, 12:50 and difficult to resettle at 2;20, 3:20 then difficult to resettle at 4)
This night I am sure he was over tired. He wouldn't settle for his 5pm catnap, and was super agitated. He fell asleep breastfeeding after his bath which is very unusual.

May 29
E 7:00 WU and feed
A
S 9:21 (1:29)
E 11:07
A
S 1:06 (39 min + 46 min - had to rock him back to sleep)
E 3:12
A
S 5:17 (31min)
E 7:04
A
S 8:04 (NW: 10, 11 then I fed him, 2 and 5. Hard to put him back to sleep at 5. He woke up playful and talkative. He slept until 6:20 (30 more min) after my husband rocked him.

Thank you once again!

[alemattos]

He just woke up from his first morning nap at 38min. I waited longer to help him fall back asleep and now I can't make him sleep. I guess I am going to the NAPS forum to see if I can get help there too.

I just want to sit down and cry since I feel like a failure.

I've been trying so hard and can't see any progress.

[katie80]

1: sometimes for naps we need to rock him to sleep because he doesn't wake up crying or anything. He is just there and he starts playing with his lovey. If I don't take action he won't sleep. I usually wait a little bit to see if he will fall back asleep. Rarely he does, and when he doesn't, if I wait too long, I am not able to get him back sleeping
2: I don't know what to do if he wakes up too early, like this morning. Should I rock him back to sleep? Should we start our day (which would be horrible for me)?
3: We are not using paci at NW anymore and he's been doing fine.
4: Should I try extending A to cut the catnap?

I actually think all of these are related to not having enough A time during the day to get full naps.  He's not waking upset from the short naps and needs a prop to get back to sleep.  That says UT to me.  Pushing the A times and dropping the CN is what will help you get better naps and a more restorative night's sleep.

Looking through your EASY, I'd say he does best with about 2.5hr A first thing in the morning, probably 2.5-3hr A next (provided the first nap was a good one of 1.5-2hr), and then you might have to decide whether he can do 3-3.5hr til BT (may need to be EBT until you can push the As a bit more) or APOP a short CN of 15-20min to get to a decent BT.

Have a read through this link and let us know what you think (I think this is exactly where you're at)... All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[katie80]

I guess I am going to the NAPS forum to see if I can get help there too.

Oh also, it's best to post on only one sleep board so that all your advice can stay in one place.  We'd be happy to continue to work through your EASY here with you, but if you'd like to post on naps, we can lock this thread and link it to your new one.  Just let us know!

[alemattos]

Thanks, katie80. I just didn't want to start asking questions that were not related to the NW topic. I will try a new schedule tomorrow.

I was already reading about the 3-2 transition. I will go there and read some more since this is the route I am taking now.

I can't believe I found this forum and I have people I can talk to. Thank you sooooo much. I hope someday I can be helpful to other people.

[katie80]

I just didn't want to start asking questions that were not related to the NW topic.

No problem... it's all related, right?!?

I was already reading about the 3-2 transition. I will go there and read some more since this is the route I am taking now.

You might want to join here too: Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2.  Then, you can chat with other moms who are in the same spot as you now.

I hope someday I can be helpful to other people.

For sure you will be... we always love it when others pass it on!

[alemattos]

Hi Katie80!

I have a few questions.

1. We had two great days of napping and A times. I am confident he was not OT or UT (I'll post his schedule later), but we still had 2-4 NW. How much times does it usually take for us to start to seeing some progress on NW?

2. He is up right now (3:30) since 2:30 and is playful. How to handle that? He is not really fussing or crying and when he does, we quickly fix is by shush/pat, however he starts playing again.

3. We had to start doing PUPD again cause sometime it is hard to settle him for bedtime. (I reduced the amount of time I was dancing with him since I think it was a prop for him do fall asleep). My question is: after putting him down, can I shush/pat him until he is asleep or PUPD and shush/pat shouldn't be mixed?

4. He woke up last morning at 5 wanting to play. We were able to put him back to sleep by PUPDing and shush/pat, but it took us 1 hour, so at 6am, which is usually the time he wakes up, he was back sleeping. Then he only woke up 7:45. We didn't want to either wake up ourselves or wake him up. Was that the wrong strategy?

I am hanging in here! It is our 4th NW tonight and hoping this is the last one.

Thanks!

[katie80]

Hi there, (((hugs))) for the NWs!

With the right routine, it can still take a few days to start seeing improvement in NWs.  Will be happy to look at the routine when you get a chance.  However, there are always other reasons for NWs too.  Is he working on any teeth?  Have you recently started solids or added in new foods?  Is he working on anything developmental, i.e. rolling over in the crib? 

It sounds like you may be working through a potential prop issue as well.  With the NWs, if he's not crying for you, you really need to try to let him be (I know it's so hard).  But, your presence when he doesn't 'need' you could be stimulating him and keeping him awake longer, or could just be adding to needing to be shh/patted in the middle of the night.  Try to stay out and give him a chance to get back to sleep on his own.  When he starts crying for help, you can go to him.

As for PUPD, yes it is best mixed with shh/pat.  You will want to put him down and walk out (or step back out of sight) and let him try to fall asleep on his own.  If he's chatting, fussing, or mantra crying leave him to it.  If he starts doing a genuine cry, go to him and shh/pat him.  If he doesn't calm after a bit and gets more and more upset, you'll pick him up and hold him for a min or two or until he stops crying and then put him back down.  Repeat.  If he calms with shh/pat or when you put him back down, you can keep a hand on him, but the goal is to gradually remove that so he is doing it on his own.

I think what you did at the EW is just fine.  It's usually hard to get them back to sleep at that hour.  Hopefully, once he gets used to self-settling a little more he will start sleeping through that.

Keep hanging in there, you'll get it figured out!

[alemattos]

This is what happened the past 3 days:

May 31st (He had Peadiatrician and had to take shots. We gave him Tylenol twice - at 10am, and 6pm)
E 7:05 WU and feed
A
S 9:57 (1:22)
E 11:21
A
S 1:36 (2:28 - woke up twice in a 10 min interval, but the shh/pat solved the problem)
E 4:12
A
E 7:15
S 7:37 (NW: 9:30, 10:30 DF, 12:30 and awake until 1:30, 2:30, 3:30 and awake until 4:30)

June 1st (this was not such a good day. He fought the last catnap, and had some trouble falling asleep. I put him to bed around 6:45)
E 6:25 WU and feed
A
S 9:57 (1:32)
E 10:26
A
S 1:36 (47 min)
E 14:07
A
E 6:16
S 7:37 (NW: 9:30, 10:20 DF, 12:30, 2:30, 5 and awake until 6)

June 2nd
E 7:45 WU and feed
A
S 10:11 (1:23)
E 11:45
A
S 2:48 (46 min)
E 15:44
A
E 18:47
S 7:17 (NW: 9:00, 10:30 DF, 12:20, 1:30, 2:30 and was awake until almost 4)

By the way, at NWs he goes to sleep much quicker with my husband. Last night, at 1:30, he was laying on his back and fussing/crying, then when he saw my husband, he turned to his side, and fell asleep.

I am sure the side lying position is a prop. He knows how to do it, but when he fully wakes up and is on his back he gets upset.

He is not teething. The ped said his gums are not swollen, but he is rubbing things on his gum.

He is sitting up unassisted pretty well. He doesn't know how to roll from back to tummy yet. I try to put him laying down on the floor to practice but he just wants to sit.

We are starting to introduce solids: 2x a day, but he is not eating very much yet. He eats pears and bananas pretty well. We tried avocados, carrots and sweet potatoes. They were not a hit. Since we are trying new things every 3 days, the days he is trying these things he doesn't like as much, he doesn't eat well.

After I am done trying new things, I am going to start giving him pears, or bananas for one meal, and one of these other things for his other meal.

One thing that I notice is that at night he keep making sounds, as if he was blowing spit bubbles. He does that during the day too. He's also been throwing his legs in the air in his crib. But other than that, he is not trying anything at night.

Another question: I was using a prop on his back to help me shh/pat so he wouldn't turn on his back. Should I remove it after he falls asleep?

Thank you!!!

[alemattos]

My question about PUPD and shh/pat was more like, if in the middle of the night he cries and I have to do PUPD, when I put him down should I just leave or can I do shh/pat as soon as I put him down? If I don't he just screams and screams.

[katie80]

Ok, well a couple things stick out to me.  I do think he's probably going to bed OT most nights, as even with two good naps, it's still over 3hr, which might be just a bit too much.  Have you tried to do an earlier BT, around 6-6:30pm at all?  That can help a lot during nap transitions.  Also, you mentioned on the first day that you were able to resettle him for the pm nap and he kept sleeping.  Did you try that the next two days as well and it didn't work, or just didn't have a chance to try?

I also think there are some developmental things going on, with the sitting/rolling/blowing raspberries.  I do wonder if the side-lying position and then waking on his back is an issue.  If it were me, I'd start resettle him in whatever position you find him.  At this age, and when they start to roll all the way over, they need to be able to sleep in different positions.  I too always laid my DS on his side and when he started rolling over, I went in and settled him in the new position.  Either he'll start settling in the new position or he'll learn quickly how to get himself onto his side to sleep.  I guess I'm unsure about the positioner to help you shh/pat.  If you leave it there, he's not staying on his side?  If you start to settle him other ways, then that shouldn't be an issue.

My question about PUPD and shh/pat was more like, if in the middle of the night he cries and I have to do PUPD, when I put him down should I just leave or can I do shh/pat as soon as I put him down? If I don't he just screams and screams.

Is he typcially calm when you put him down or crying still?  If he's still crying, yes you shh/pat him when you put him down.  If he's calm, then I'd just lay a hand on him and let him drift off without shh/pat, so that doesn't become an accidental prop.  I'm not sure I'm answering this helpfully, so let me know if it's still unclear.

[alemattos]

I will try that. We had another great day with his naps. 1:20, and 1:35 without waking up in the middle.

Last night he slept on his tummy from 3-7 without NW, so tonight I helped him fall asleep on his tummy. I put him there, and he was a little fussy, so I helped him to calm down since he wanted to raise his head. When he calmed down, he fell asleep on his own. Hopefully this will help break the habit of sleeping only on his side. I tried helping him to calm down when he was on his back but it is impossible.

Yes, you answered my question. The prop I was talking about was something mentioned on the FAQ of the forum to help the baby stay on his side while I shush/pat him.

I know one thing I am certainly doing wrong: I can't distinguish very well his mantra cry. Sometimes he is crying and starts to bite his lovey, and throwing his legs on the air and seems very upset. It sounds like a mantra cry, but I am pretty sure he won't sleep by himself when he is like that. Is there an usual length for the mantra cry? I am trying to wait longer and longer, but I just feel like I am doing CIO, mostly because I can't distinguish his cry very well.

Thanks for all your help and support!

[alemattos]

Last night he went from 7:15 until 9:30 for his dream feed, and only woke up again this morning at 6am!

[PaulsMom]

Wow! That's great 

[katie80]

That is a great night!

Sometimes he is crying and starts to bite his lovey, and throwing his legs on the air and seems very upset. It sounds like a mantra cry, but I am pretty sure he won't sleep by himself when he is like that. Is there an usual length for the mantra cry? I am trying to wait longer and longer, but I just feel like I am doing CIO, mostly because I can't distinguish his cry very well.

Are you in the room when he's doing this?  If so, I would just try to calm him with your voice, but without really intervening.  If you feel like you're doing CIO, then I would intervene.  But, if he's just sounding frustrated, then I would try to give him some time to figure it out.  There are babies that have louder mantra cries, but if you're questioning it, I would err on the side of going to him, even if it's just to try to settle him with your voice or presence.

[katie80]

Last night he slept on his tummy from 3-7 without NW, so tonight I helped him fall asleep on his tummy. I put him there, and he was a little fussy, so I helped him to calm down since he wanted to raise his head. When he calmed down, he fell asleep on his own. Hopefully this will help break the habit of sleeping only on his side. I tried helping him to calm down when he was on his back but it is impossible.

I just wanted to give you this link on tummy sleeping, as I don't want to advocate something that may not be recommended.  Tummy Sleeping. I know the advice in the US is that once LOs can roll over themselves to sleep on their tummies, it's fine to leave them, but I think the advice around the world is to still always put LO down on their back to sleep.  You can of course decide what's best for you and your baby and ask your doctor if you need confirmation. 

Hope you get another good night!

[alemattos]

Yeah, I know... He slept on his side after the dreamfeed and tonight I am putting him on his side again. I know back is best, but he just won't fall asleep on his back.

Answering your other question: when he was upset I was not there with him. If he does that again I will try to use only my voice.

We had another good day of naps and I am hoping we will have another good night.

Thanks a bunch!

[katie80]

Glad to hear you had another good day of naps!

Yeah, I know... He slept on his side after the dreamfeed and tonight I am putting him on his side again. I know back is best, but he just won't fall asleep on his back.

I think I said this already, but I put my DS down on his side from about 4mo, so I'm not one to judge.  I would maybe start to do lots of rolling practice during the day, so that he can get used to the feeling and hopefully start maneuvering himself more to where he wants to be in the MOTN.

(((Hugs))) and FX for you!

[alemattos]

Why, oh why?! That perfect night was a one night thing. Tomorrow I will post what happened the past couple of nights.

[katie80]

  Sorry!  Hang in there, hon.

[alemattos]

I didn't post out routine cause I am trying everything you suggested so I think right now there is nothing to tweak. Yesterday we tried the capped catnap. He was not happy being awaken but he was not OT at bedtime.

The past two nights he was fully awake 4-5 hours after his dreamfeed. The night before last night, it took him 2 hours to settle with some hardcore crying. Last night I decided to feed him and see what happened since he was looking for my breast when I picked him up. (He does that a lot during the day even when not hungry)

It was 2am when I fed him and he slept until 5:17 and was easy to resettle until 7. Do you think he could be going through a growth spurt? I don't want to start the night feeding habit again, but I don't want him hungry either.

[alemattos]

He is 28 weeks, by the way.

[Alyssa11]

I just got on this sight today.  My second baby is having the EXACT same issues as yours.  I used BW with first and it made a huge difference but she didn't sleep through the night until she was 14 mo.  My DD starting sleeping terrible at night waking every 1-2 hours or more.  We use a binky, she sleeps on her side too, she is EBF and isn't eating much for solids except cheerios.  She is almost 7 months.  I am going to be following your progress but wanted to say I feel your pain.  But way to go on naps, if he will just lay in his bed and play with his lovey that's great.  My first would play in her bed sometimes 2 hours before putting herself to sleep..we had to take her socks away at 8 months because she would play with them for hours!  But my only advice on your son playing in his bed forever is to let him, sounds like he is happy and you can get some chores done. He is a smart boy and BF babies seem to give more hell about sleeping, at least mine have.

[katie80]

He could be going through a growth spurt... there is often one around 6mo and he's only just over that. I'd say if it's been 4-5hr and he's looking for the breast to go ahead and feed. A long NW like that could definitely indicate hunger or discomfort. (((Hugs)))

Alyssa11 - Welcome to BW! Please feel free to start your own thread if you'd like more specific advice.

[alemattos]

Hi Katie,

We have perfect nap days, where his A time is never longer than 3 hours. We have bad days when he doesn't nap well, and won't take his 5pm nap no matter what I do. And still his nights are getting worse and worse cause now he won't settle anymore with just shush/pat. We even tried PUPD at night, but he just gets angrier and angrier, and won't settle.

We don't know how to on handle the NW anymore. He will only calm i f he stay in our arms for a long period of time and he ends up falling asleep. But when we put him back on his crib he wakes up. It just feels like all the progress we've made through the course of more than a month was for nothing.

I am not sure if he is in discomfort of hungry. I am not sure if I should do PUPD.

What would you do, Katie?

Our longest stretch last night was 2 hours, and I can't handle that anymore. I am at a loss. I am not functioning, and can't think clearly. I can only imagine how my son is feeling.

Hi Alyssa,

I you have better luck. I do not wish this to anyone, but it is comforting to know I am not alone. Let me know if you want to talk about our progress.

[katie80]

Our longest stretch last night was 2 hours, and I can't handle that anymore. I am at a loss. I am not functioning, and can't think clearly. I can only imagine how my son is feeling.

(((Hugs))) hon, that sounds exhausting. I'm sorry!

If the NWs aren't dependent on the daytime routine at all and he used to settle with shh/pat but now is not, I'd guess that he's either having discomfort from something (teething, new solids causing gas or constipation, etc) or a GS.  But, if it's a GS, I wouldn't expect him to be waking every 2hr, so that makes me think discomfort.  Did he have vaccines at the doctor appt last week?  Could he be having a reaction from that?  Is it worth it to try giving him pain meds at BT or in the MOTN to see if that helps?

I'm sure we've said this before, but right around 6mo can be a difficult time of sleep because there are often lots of developmental changes too.  Hang in there, hon, it will get better.

[alemattos]

Quick update:

Things got better at night for the past week and a half. Once he woke up at 3 and 4, talked to himself and wnet back to sleep. It was so cute, and amazing...

The other nights he woke up just once and we put him back to sleep just by shhh/patting.

The last 3-4 days he started waking up between 8:30 and 9 screaming, especially if I am not the one to help him settle. Once I fed him. The other night I just kept him in my arms. I tried PUPD, but he was hysterical, and I don't think I can handle PUPD anymore, especially now that the crib is lower. He just screams more and more when I put him on the crib. I tried wake to sleep last night and it didn't work. I was going to try it tonight but he was already awake. It looks like separation anxiety or something. Any tips on how to deal with this?

At least nights are much better!

[katie80]

Glad to hear the nights are going better!  Those early NWs are often thought of as OT wakings, but it does sound like there could be some SA mixed in as well if he screams harder if it's not you to go to him.  There's not much different you can do at NWs if they are from SA, but to continue to reassure him of your presence, without making yourself a prop.  Here are some things you can do during the day to help him deal with SA (a lot of them are for older babies, but you can start them now)... Tips for seperation anxiety

HTH!

[alemattos]

Thanks a bunch!

I don't know what todo about OT anymore. He's been having good naps and isn't staying awake for more than 3:30h. During the day is 2:30/3:00. Close to bedtime is 3:30 since we are avoiding catnaps.

Also, he's been waking up earlier and earlier. I haven't researched about this on the forum yet, but I will.

[katie80]

Can you post your EAS from the last 2-3 days and we can take a look?  How old is he now?

[alemattos]

It tool me so long cause I didin't have my computer with me yesterday.

Also, it's been 2 days he is napping for only 30 minutes and I can manage to put him back, but only by keeping him in my arms. Shh/Pat is not working for naps. I might start to do wake to sleep again and see what happens.

Here it is:

The last 2 days were not so good, but the days before were better and he still had early night wakings with screaming. I don't remember what time he had his night waking, but it was just once on average.

The days he woke up later was because we managed to put him back to sleep, and our rule is: at 5am anything is allowed to get him back to sleep.

18 Jun
E 6:21
A
S 8:55 (1:30)
E 10:36
A
S 1:24 (1:39)
E 3:09
A
E 6:31
S 6:54
E 21:35 (DF after screaming session)

Jun 19
E 6:06
A
S 8:48 (1:32)
E 10:36
A
S 1:25 (40 min)
E 2:17
A
S 4:57 (39 min)
E 7:18 (he snacked at 6:18 too, but for only 3 min)
A
S 8:05
E 10:37 DF (I can't remember if he woke up, or what happened)

Jun 20
E 6:30
A
S 8:45 (1:14)
E 10:39
A
S 12:55 (2:21)
E 3:21
A
E 6:31
S 6:48
E 9:59 DF (I kept him with me until DF time)

Jun 21
E 6:56
A
S 9:55 (38 min)
E 10:54
A
S 1:43 (43 min)
E 3:01
A
E6:13
S 6:30
E 9:21 DF (kept him in my arms but he wouldn't settle after I tried PUPD - he only went down again around 11:30 - it was insane!)

Jun 22 (we drove to my mom's - 4h drive - in the morning)
E 5:57
A
S 8:15 (34 min)
E 11:01
A
S 12:13 (2:26)
E 3:57
A
E 6:16
S 6:28
E 10:05 (DF - kept him in my arms)

Thanks, Katie. You've been amazing. I can't find words to thank you enough.

[alemattos]

He is 7 months old today. 

[katie80]

I can't remember... have you tried an earlier BT in the past?  I think the EAS's look pretty good, but that last A might be just a tad too long and thus the reason for the early NWs.  Could you try a last A of closer to 3hr and see if that helps?  A lot of times (but not always), LOs will still sleep til their normal time in the morning, even thought BT is earlier.  Until you can gradually push the other A times out to 3hr (I think you can start pushing the morning one, as when it's shorter than 2.5-2.75hr, you're not always getting a full nap), and earlier BT might help to keep things a bit more settled.

Are you giving him any new foods around lunch or supper time that could be causing him tummy discomfort?  No sign of teeth, still? 

[alemattos]

I tried a 6pm bt once and he woke up at 6:30 thinking that was a nap. It was hard to settle him again. The earliest we did was 6:30. When you see him sleeping at 6:45 it's probably because I put him down around 6:30. One thing I've noticed is that the earliest he sleeps, the more early NW he has. It's been like that forever, but that's the only way to do if I am dropping the catnap. The bad thing about lat BT is that he still wakes up at 6am and doesn't get enough sleep.

Yesterday he had to catnap and his bt was 8:20. He slept until 11:50 when he asked for his df. It was a good night. He woke up at 5, and put himself to sleep again until 5:20. I had to put him down and he slept until 6:10.

No teeth yet.

I am working on solids. Now he is used to his morning meal, an starting to get used to a 5/5:30 meal. He won't take anything during lunch time. I've been trying and having to throw away food, so I decided to give him later and he takes it much better.

Thanks!

[alemattos]

The craziest thing about this 8:30-9:30 NW is that he o my settles in my arms. Even if he is completely down, as soon as I put him on his crib he wakes up. PUPD only makes him more upset. Tonight I even tried laying him down with me on my bed, and he started complaining.

If we have NW before 8:30, shh/pat solver the problem. If it is after 9:30, I usually DF him and we are fine.

Crazy stuff.

[katie80]

Yes, that is strange.  I wonder what the difference is...

It could be discomfort from the solids at supper as that is a new time to give them.  I'm assuming you're giving foods you've already tried, but maybe his tummy is just getting used to digesting them in the evening.

I think the CN needs to go, unless you get a 30-40min one for one of the others (then you can give the CN a little earlier).  The late BT is just causing him to have a short night and then he's starting the next day tired. 

[alemattos]

Do you think I should feed him? After he eats, he can settle in his crib. But I am afraid he might wake up in the middle of the night or earlier in the morning because he is hungry.

His last feed is 6:15/6:30. Then, DF at 10:15/10:30, but I am hoping to drop the DF soon, so bringing it earlier would not be a bad idea.

[katie80]

It's up to you... right now you end up holding him til the DF, right?  You could sure try, but it might have an effect on the rest of the night.  Typically, to drop the DF, you give it 15-30min earlier every few nights.  This would be more like an hr earlier, but it may not affect him. .