Constant night wakings - 6 months old

[katie80]

Hi there, (((hugs))) for the NWs!

With the right routine, it can still take a few days to start seeing improvement in NWs.  Will be happy to look at the routine when you get a chance.  However, there are always other reasons for NWs too.  Is he working on any teeth?  Have you recently started solids or added in new foods?  Is he working on anything developmental, i.e. rolling over in the crib? 

It sounds like you may be working through a potential prop issue as well.  With the NWs, if he's not crying for you, you really need to try to let him be (I know it's so hard).  But, your presence when he doesn't 'need' you could be stimulating him and keeping him awake longer, or could just be adding to needing to be shh/patted in the middle of the night.  Try to stay out and give him a chance to get back to sleep on his own.  When he starts crying for help, you can go to him.

As for PUPD, yes it is best mixed with shh/pat.  You will want to put him down and walk out (or step back out of sight) and let him try to fall asleep on his own.  If he's chatting, fussing, or mantra crying leave him to it.  If he starts doing a genuine cry, go to him and shh/pat him.  If he doesn't calm after a bit and gets more and more upset, you'll pick him up and hold him for a min or two or until he stops crying and then put him back down.  Repeat.  If he calms with shh/pat or when you put him back down, you can keep a hand on him, but the goal is to gradually remove that so he is doing it on his own.

I think what you did at the EW is just fine.  It's usually hard to get them back to sleep at that hour.  Hopefully, once he gets used to self-settling a little more he will start sleeping through that.

Keep hanging in there, you'll get it figured out!

[alemattos]

This is what happened the past 3 days:

May 31st (He had Peadiatrician and had to take shots. We gave him Tylenol twice - at 10am, and 6pm)
E 7:05 WU and feed
A
S 9:57 (1:22)
E 11:21
A
S 1:36 (2:28 - woke up twice in a 10 min interval, but the shh/pat solved the problem)
E 4:12
A
E 7:15
S 7:37 (NW: 9:30, 10:30 DF, 12:30 and awake until 1:30, 2:30, 3:30 and awake until 4:30)

June 1st (this was not such a good day. He fought the last catnap, and had some trouble falling asleep. I put him to bed around 6:45)
E 6:25 WU and feed
A
S 9:57 (1:32)
E 10:26
A
S 1:36 (47 min)
E 14:07
A
E 6:16
S 7:37 (NW: 9:30, 10:20 DF, 12:30, 2:30, 5 and awake until 6)

June 2nd
E 7:45 WU and feed
A
S 10:11 (1:23)
E 11:45
A
S 2:48 (46 min)
E 15:44
A
E 18:47
S 7:17 (NW: 9:00, 10:30 DF, 12:20, 1:30, 2:30 and was awake until almost 4)

By the way, at NWs he goes to sleep much quicker with my husband. Last night, at 1:30, he was laying on his back and fussing/crying, then when he saw my husband, he turned to his side, and fell asleep.

I am sure the side lying position is a prop. He knows how to do it, but when he fully wakes up and is on his back he gets upset.

He is not teething. The ped said his gums are not swollen, but he is rubbing things on his gum.

He is sitting up unassisted pretty well. He doesn't know how to roll from back to tummy yet. I try to put him laying down on the floor to practice but he just wants to sit.

We are starting to introduce solids: 2x a day, but he is not eating very much yet. He eats pears and bananas pretty well. We tried avocados, carrots and sweet potatoes. They were not a hit. Since we are trying new things every 3 days, the days he is trying these things he doesn't like as much, he doesn't eat well.

After I am done trying new things, I am going to start giving him pears, or bananas for one meal, and one of these other things for his other meal.

One thing that I notice is that at night he keep making sounds, as if he was blowing spit bubbles. He does that during the day too. He's also been throwing his legs in the air in his crib. But other than that, he is not trying anything at night.

Another question: I was using a prop on his back to help me shh/pat so he wouldn't turn on his back. Should I remove it after he falls asleep?

Thank you!!!

[alemattos]

My question about PUPD and shh/pat was more like, if in the middle of the night he cries and I have to do PUPD, when I put him down should I just leave or can I do shh/pat as soon as I put him down? If I don't he just screams and screams.

[katie80]

Ok, well a couple things stick out to me.  I do think he's probably going to bed OT most nights, as even with two good naps, it's still over 3hr, which might be just a bit too much.  Have you tried to do an earlier BT, around 6-6:30pm at all?  That can help a lot during nap transitions.  Also, you mentioned on the first day that you were able to resettle him for the pm nap and he kept sleeping.  Did you try that the next two days as well and it didn't work, or just didn't have a chance to try?

I also think there are some developmental things going on, with the sitting/rolling/blowing raspberries.  I do wonder if the side-lying position and then waking on his back is an issue.  If it were me, I'd start resettle him in whatever position you find him.  At this age, and when they start to roll all the way over, they need to be able to sleep in different positions.  I too always laid my DS on his side and when he started rolling over, I went in and settled him in the new position.  Either he'll start settling in the new position or he'll learn quickly how to get himself onto his side to sleep.  I guess I'm unsure about the positioner to help you shh/pat.  If you leave it there, he's not staying on his side?  If you start to settle him other ways, then that shouldn't be an issue.

My question about PUPD and shh/pat was more like, if in the middle of the night he cries and I have to do PUPD, when I put him down should I just leave or can I do shh/pat as soon as I put him down? If I don't he just screams and screams.

Is he typcially calm when you put him down or crying still?  If he's still crying, yes you shh/pat him when you put him down.  If he's calm, then I'd just lay a hand on him and let him drift off without shh/pat, so that doesn't become an accidental prop.  I'm not sure I'm answering this helpfully, so let me know if it's still unclear.

[alemattos]

I will try that. We had another great day with his naps. 1:20, and 1:35 without waking up in the middle.

Last night he slept on his tummy from 3-7 without NW, so tonight I helped him fall asleep on his tummy. I put him there, and he was a little fussy, so I helped him to calm down since he wanted to raise his head. When he calmed down, he fell asleep on his own. Hopefully this will help break the habit of sleeping only on his side. I tried helping him to calm down when he was on his back but it is impossible.

Yes, you answered my question. The prop I was talking about was something mentioned on the FAQ of the forum to help the baby stay on his side while I shush/pat him.

I know one thing I am certainly doing wrong: I can't distinguish very well his mantra cry. Sometimes he is crying and starts to bite his lovey, and throwing his legs on the air and seems very upset. It sounds like a mantra cry, but I am pretty sure he won't sleep by himself when he is like that. Is there an usual length for the mantra cry? I am trying to wait longer and longer, but I just feel like I am doing CIO, mostly because I can't distinguish his cry very well.

Thanks for all your help and support!

[alemattos]

Last night he went from 7:15 until 9:30 for his dream feed, and only woke up again this morning at 6am!

[PaulsMom]

Wow! That's great 

[katie80]

That is a great night!

Sometimes he is crying and starts to bite his lovey, and throwing his legs on the air and seems very upset. It sounds like a mantra cry, but I am pretty sure he won't sleep by himself when he is like that. Is there an usual length for the mantra cry? I am trying to wait longer and longer, but I just feel like I am doing CIO, mostly because I can't distinguish his cry very well.

Are you in the room when he's doing this?  If so, I would just try to calm him with your voice, but without really intervening.  If you feel like you're doing CIO, then I would intervene.  But, if he's just sounding frustrated, then I would try to give him some time to figure it out.  There are babies that have louder mantra cries, but if you're questioning it, I would err on the side of going to him, even if it's just to try to settle him with your voice or presence.

[katie80]

Last night he slept on his tummy from 3-7 without NW, so tonight I helped him fall asleep on his tummy. I put him there, and he was a little fussy, so I helped him to calm down since he wanted to raise his head. When he calmed down, he fell asleep on his own. Hopefully this will help break the habit of sleeping only on his side. I tried helping him to calm down when he was on his back but it is impossible.

I just wanted to give you this link on tummy sleeping, as I don't want to advocate something that may not be recommended.  Tummy Sleeping. I know the advice in the US is that once LOs can roll over themselves to sleep on their tummies, it's fine to leave them, but I think the advice around the world is to still always put LO down on their back to sleep.  You can of course decide what's best for you and your baby and ask your doctor if you need confirmation. 

Hope you get another good night!

[alemattos]

Yeah, I know... He slept on his side after the dreamfeed and tonight I am putting him on his side again. I know back is best, but he just won't fall asleep on his back.

Answering your other question: when he was upset I was not there with him. If he does that again I will try to use only my voice.

We had another good day of naps and I am hoping we will have another good night.

Thanks a bunch!

[katie80]

Glad to hear you had another good day of naps!

Yeah, I know... He slept on his side after the dreamfeed and tonight I am putting him on his side again. I know back is best, but he just won't fall asleep on his back.

I think I said this already, but I put my DS down on his side from about 4mo, so I'm not one to judge.  I would maybe start to do lots of rolling practice during the day, so that he can get used to the feeling and hopefully start maneuvering himself more to where he wants to be in the MOTN.

(((Hugs))) and FX for you!

[alemattos]

Why, oh why?! That perfect night was a one night thing. Tomorrow I will post what happened the past couple of nights.

[katie80]

  Sorry!  Hang in there, hon.

[alemattos]

I didn't post out routine cause I am trying everything you suggested so I think right now there is nothing to tweak. Yesterday we tried the capped catnap. He was not happy being awaken but he was not OT at bedtime.

The past two nights he was fully awake 4-5 hours after his dreamfeed. The night before last night, it took him 2 hours to settle with some hardcore crying. Last night I decided to feed him and see what happened since he was looking for my breast when I picked him up. (He does that a lot during the day even when not hungry)

It was 2am when I fed him and he slept until 5:17 and was easy to resettle until 7. Do you think he could be going through a growth spurt? I don't want to start the night feeding habit again, but I don't want him hungry either.

[alemattos]

He is 28 weeks, by the way.