I'm so exausted with night wakings

[Masonf]

My boy will be 4 months in a few days. I stopped night feelings about 1week ago. He would wake between 3-5 and I was giving him less and less to wean him as he was not hungry at 8am. He would only take 3-4 oz at that feed.  Since I stopped the night feed he has been waking up constantly at night and I'm so tired. He wakes at around 2.30am, 3am, 4am, basically I'm giving him his paci every 30-45 minutes. His paci is definitely a prop. He might sleep then from 5-7 or 6-7 if lucky. I would like him to sleep til 8am as I don't think he's getting enough sleep at night time. He was never a good napper. When i did his night feeds he was also hard to fall back to sleep after. I have him on 4 hr schedule this last few weeks as he was just not hungry at 3.5 hrs. His day looks like this.

Wup 7.00 ( would like this to be 8.00am)
E 8.00
A 8.45
S 9.00 ( will sleep either 35 or 45 mins and then it takes him maybe 1 hr to fall back           asleep.i need to give him paci though.  Sometimes he will wake and fall back within a few minutes) total he will sleep 1hr - 1.45 but its broken sleep
A 11/11.30
E 12.00
A 12.45/1pm
S 1/1.15 ( same as morning nap, sleep broken, total 1hr 30- 2hr if lucky)
A 2.30/2.45
E 4.00
A 5.00
S 5.15( cat nap maybe 45/1hr)
A 6.00/6.15
E 6.50/7.00
B 8.00
Df 10.30/10.45
NW (2.30,3, 4,5, 6) it's different every night, could be earlier or later but I'm giving him paci every 30/45/1hr from the time he wakes.

I don't think it's food because he not crying, he just seems he can't get back to sleep for any length of time. He will fall back himself but once paci falls out he cries for it.
I know paci is a prop but I don't know what else I can do for him to help him get back to sleep for the rest of the night.

[Masonf]

I forgot to add that he is teething for the past 3 weeks and sometimes he's eating his hand at night but not always. I do give him Tylenol if he's bad.

[Masonf]

Sometimes he just wakes up way too early from his naps and it throws off rest of day. I have to put him down earlier for next nap. ( if he wakes at 10.30 I have to put him down at 12.30) but then I try too keep him up til 5pm until he goes down for cat nap. By 7.30/45 sometimes he's so tired he tries to fall asleep feeding. He's so beat by the time 8 comes, I read his story and he usually sleeping in 5 minutes from when I put him down.
Sorry for all the add on's.

[PaulsMom]

Hi there! 

Oh gosh, all those nws are very exhausting for your LO and you! 

Since I stopped the night feed he has been waking up constantly at night and I'm so tired. He wakes at around 2.30am, 3am, 4am, basically I'm giving him his paci every 30-45 minutes.

I hate to say it but I think that I would start to feed him at night if it's been at least 4 hrs since his last feed.  The caveat to this is if you are feeding at 4 am, then he may not take a full feed if he wakes at 7 am or you can wait to feed him (as you have been doing).

WRT your routine, it looks like some of the A times are a bit long so I'd try to keep him to 2 hrs A from eyes open to eyes closed.  With a short nap, you might want to consider shortening his A by around 15 min or so. 

Regarding your BT, I'd actually bring it forward because he may be getting OT before BT which may contribute to the nw's.  Could you try a 7 pm BT?  With a slightly earlier BT, his CN can be brought forward a bit, which will even out the A times throughout the day. 

HTH

[Masonf]

Thanks so much, I will try out this new routine. I'm going to put him to bed at 7pm tonight. At the dream feed I used to change his diaper and stopped, I don't change him now until morning now,but his diaper is very heavy. Do you think I should change him at dream feed or will it cause more problems. I'm not sure if that contributing to his night wakings, he may be uncomfortable. I do use 12 hr diapers.

He gets between 2hrs 35 - 4hrs 30 total day sleep. What do you think of this. Sometimes it's very hard for him to sleep after he wakes up early from a nap. Do you recommend weaning the paci or should I just give it o him for now.

[PaulsMom]

Wrt changing his diaper at the df, I wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary. He's at an age where a diaper change will really wake him up and could disrupt his sleep.  So for now, lets not and see how it goes.

The amount of DT sleep looks alright.  Not all days are going to be perfect so I wouldn't cap either his morning or afternoon naps.  His CN could be capped if its going to push out bt.  In the next month or so he'll drop the CN anyways.

Wrt paci weaning, lets see how he does with one night feed.  If he's still waking every sleep cycle, and falling asleep when you give it go him, then it should be weaned... But that's another process to work through. 

Let us know how the earlier bt and one NF goes.

[Masonf]

So last night wasn't as bad. I woke up at 2.15am and he was wide awake and now that I think about it he has been awake around that time this past few nights.
I had to change him last night, he soaked through everything. I fed him 4oz and put him back down without paci and he put himself to sleep. He woke up crying at 4.30, I gave paci and he went right back and same again at 6.45. He woke again at 7.20 and I got him up at 7.30.
I put him down this morning at 9.10 and he was asleep at 9.20. I had to give him paci though.

[PaulsMom]

Wow, that's a lot of wetness if he's soaking through.  Are you using disposables or cloth?  If you are using disposables, would you consider going up a size?

Ok, let's see how he does over the next few nights.  If things improve, then that's great otherwise we can figure out what can be tweaked.

[Masonf]

I will put him in a bigger size and see how he does. I'll let you know. Thank you for your help.

[tfuentes00]

My lo wets through her diapers also and I went up a size and its helped.  Hope it works for you, also if he's big enough for the night time diapers I'd recommend them they really worked for my ds as he's always been a heavy night wetter and apparently so is dd.  good luck

[Masonf]

So here is how the past 3 nights went. On Tuesday night I put him into bed at 7.00. He fell asleep at 7.15. Dream feed at 10.35. He woke at 2am, fed him 3.5oz. Woke again at 5.30 looking for paci. Woke then every 30 mins looking or paci again. He tries to sleep tosses a lot and once paci falls out cries for it. Got him up at 7.30, fed at 8am only took 3.5oz.

On Wednesday night into bed at 7.10. Deam feed at 10.45. Woke at 2.30, gave paci, woke at 3.20 fed him 6.5oz. He slept to 5.30, went in to get paci and he was soaked again, changed him and then tossed to 7.15. He slept 7.15- 7.50. Up and fed at 8am.

Last night he went to bed at 7.05, tossed a bit, asleep at 8.05. Tried to change his diaper in dark at dream feed and he peed all over the place, had to change everything. Dream feed at 10.40. Woke at 2.30, fed him 4oz but it seemed like he just wanted to suck. Slept to 5.30 and has been awake most of morning looking for paci every 10-15 mins. He would only take 3oz this morning.

He is totally addicted to the paci, I tried a couple of days ago to not give it to him at nap, it turned into a nightmare quickly and I gave in. Is it best to go cold turkey. How exactly should I go about it. When should I do it. How long does it take.

I don't understand why he's waking so early he used to sleep to 4-5.
He has his 4 month check up today. He takes between 32-37oz in a day. I'm wondering to if the waking at 2/2.30 is habitual or does it have to be exact time every night.

[PaulsMom]

Tried to change his diaper in dark at dream feed and he peed all over the place, had to change everything. Dream feed at 10.40

oh no!

He is totally addicted to the paci, I tried a couple of days ago to not give it to him at nap, it turned into a nightmare quickly and I gave in. Is it best to go cold turkey. How exactly should I go about it. When should I do it. How long does it take.

with paci weaning, it's best to go cold turkey unfortunately.  I would strongly recommend that you introduce another comfort item to replace the paci so they have something to help them self soothe.  With my DS, I introduced two lovies and then took away the paci.  it was a few rough nights getting him to sleep but once he figured out how to fall asleep without the paci he was able to transition between sleep cycle and was essentially STTN unless he was sick or teething.  I can't recall, is your DS swaddled?  if yes, then you would have to get rid of the swaddle first.  As for introducing the lovies, I actually slept with the lovies before giving them to DS so that they had my scent on them.  I made sure that when he was in his crib, the lovies were beside him.

I'm wondering to if the waking at 2/2.30 is habitual or does it have to be exact time every night.

At this age, not sure if it is habit or if it just because its roughly 4 hrs after his DF and he's hungry.  At this age, a lot of LOs are still taking 1 if not 2 night feeds.

[Masonf]

Last night he woke at 2 and I fed him 4oz at 2.15. He put himself back to sleep with no paci and the same at dream feed he woke a little. He slept to 6.40 the morning but when I looked in monitor he was on his belly sleeping, it scared me. He can roll from back to belly but he can't go from belly to back just yet.

He was at doctor yesterday for check up. She did say he probably dint need that night feed as he's getting enough during the day, but if I stop how do I get him to sleep through.

Because he doesn't need the paci at dream feed(if he wakes) or at night feed do you think it may be easier to wean him. His naps are the worst, I will give it to him about 5 times in ten minutes before he goes to sleep.
I put him in a swaddler sleep sack but his arms are out, so he's not really swaddled. Can I keep him in that or wean that to.

Also he is teething, does the paci help with teething or not. If it helps soothe him gums maybe now is not the right time to wean, I don't know.
When you wean, do you take it away forever or can you give to comfort sometimes or not.
Thanks for your help.

[PaulsMom]

I'm glad last night went better for you and that he wasn't so dependent on the paci.

he probably dint need that night feed as he's getting enough during the day, but if I stop how do I get him to sleep through.

yes, this is the trick! One thing to keep in mind, he may not *need* the night feed from a growth / nutritional standpoint if he's getting enough milk during the day but he still may be waking up hungry.  If you want to wean the nfs, there are a couple of things you could try.
1. cold turkey - so stop feeding him and use another settling technique to ease him back to sleep.  IMO I probably wouldn't try this until he was a bit older.  Also, this is what was done a few weeks back and then lead to the nw's so I'd be hesitant to try it again.
2. you could gradually add less and less milk to his bottle so over time, he's getting less until he's not getting any milk.  this would be like a gradual withdrawal method.

I put him in a swaddler sleep sack but his arms are out, so he's not really swaddled. Can I keep him in that or wean that to.

It would be fine to keep him in this.  If his arms are out then he's not fully swaddled.

Also he is teething, does the paci help with teething or not. If it helps soothe him gums maybe now is not the right time to wean, I don't know. When you wean, do you take it away forever or can you give to comfort sometimes or not.

Hmm. not sure if sucking really helps them when they are teething.  Some say that sucking makes their gums hurt more.  They do have teethers that look like soothers however.  keep in mind that he's likely going to be teething for a good year at least.  I did wean my DS from his paci when he was teething without any issues.  For paci's I would use the cold turkey method and just get rid of the paci (otherwise it gets challenging not using it if things get rough).    if you do wean, I would recommend that you try to introduce another comfort item to him so he does have something that he can self soothe with.

[Masonf]

So I wanted to update you on the last few nights. I stopped the paci on Monday at his first nap. That was the hardest day so far. I did pu/pd with him for night and BT. He slept that night from 7pm right thru to 5.45am with a dream feed. He has never went that long. Last night he went to bed at 7, he woke before dream feed and I shhh him. He slept to 5am. I went in at 5.15 and tried to shhh but he was having none of it. He lay there til 6.30 and then cried. I got him up at 7. With him waking so close to his 7am feed would you of feed him at 5 or not. Maybe I should of and then maybe he would of went back to sleep. How do I get him to sleep longer now that he has no paci. Thanks for all your help.

[PaulsMom]

wow, that's really great! 

WRT to extending sleep, you can try shh-pat as a means to soothe them back to sleep or you could feed, if you think he's hungry.  At 5 am, I would feed and put him back in his crib to see if he will make it until 7 am (that's actually what I do with my DD when she wakes early as 5 am is too early for me!).  It usually works.  It gets trickier if it's after 6 am so some days we are up at 6 and I just have to accept that.

[Masonf]

Thank you. If he wakes at 5 am I will feed. I know what you mean about waking after 6. When he woke at 5.45 I didn't know what to do. It puts th e whole day off when he wakes too early. If he wakes at around 6 should I feed me a little bit or not. You have been a great help to me .

[PaulsMom]

When he woke at 5.45 I didn't know what to do. It puts th e whole day off when he wakes too early.

Oh, I know what you mean.  I have two and when my DD wakes too early, it starts to conflict with a school run!  with a 5:45 wu, I feed and put her back (with my fingers crossed).  Sometimes it works and she sleeps until 7 or so and other times, she just chats away and then starts to call me.  I'm so glad that I've been able to help!

[Masonf]

Hi paulsmom, so I don't know what to do. His naps are worse than ever. Yesterday he only slept 1hr 30 mins total. I put him to bed early at 6.30 cause he was so tired. He slept to 2.15 with the dream feed, I fed him 5oz and he woke at 4.55am, he was on his belly so I turned him and he woke again at 5.30. I tried shhh but didn't work. I fed him at 6.50 and I put him down at 7.30, he fell asleep at 7.40 and woke 30 mins later. He took a total of 42oz yesterday. The 5.30 am waking are too too early. And the short naps are throwing everything off. Not sure what do do at this point.

[PaulsMom]

His nw's sound better but I agree that's not enough DT sleep for a 4.5 mo old.  What does his routine look like?  And how long are his A times? We might be able to tweak something to get his naps back on track. 

Are you able to APOP a longer nap?  I hate being a slave to naps so when my dd short napped her first nap, I'd APOP the next one (eg, out in the stroller or car ride, etc) so at least I wasn't stuck at home getting frustrated. 

[Caitlyns Mum]

((Hugs)) My LO is a little younger than yours, but I think we're going to run into the same issues! I'm fearful too that if we wean the dummy in time, getting him back to sleep isn't just 'plug it and walk out' process. Also, when you're out and need them to be quiet, the dummy is fabulous. I'll be following your progress - good luck!

[Masonf]

Sorry for taking so long to write back. I'm sorry I don't know what APOP means. So he did better on Friday and Saturday his total day sleep was around 3hours 30mins. What is the least amount he should be sleeping in the day time. Yesterday was bad again only slept 1hr 35, I put him to bed at 6.30 and was sleeping at 6.38. He woke when I was changing him for dream feed but went ought back when I started to feed. He woke at 12.30am he was on his belly again. I took me 1 hr of shhhhing to go back to sleep. We woke again at 2.15 on belly. He went back to sleep in a few minutes himself when I turned him. He woke then at 4.30 and I fed him 5oz, he stayed wide awake til 5.15, kept rolling onto to belly. He fell asleep at 5.15 and he slept to 7.55 which is really unusual, but he was sleeping on his belly the hole time so I don't know if that's making a difference. I'm so scared when he rolls as he can't get back over. He has very good head movement and can lift up his chest and he does put his head to the side.

Today i put him down at 9.45, he fell asleep at 10am but only leapt 30 mins. His Atime was from 7.55 - 10am. So I didn't think he was overtired. I tied shhh but nothing. I got him up then.

He is 19 weeks on Thursday should I be trying to extend his A times or hen do I do that. It's frustrating because I hate his day to go bad. I love to keep a schedule. Maybe I shouldn't be high strung and just go with the flow. Thank you

[PaulsMom]

Sorry, APOP is accidental parenting on purpose.  So knowingly using a prop to get your Lo to sleep.  With both my kids, this would usually be a car ride or a walk in the stroller.  I'm glad Friday and Saturday were good. 

Here is the average amounts of day and night time sleep by age. 
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep. 
You probably know how much DT sleep he needs based on his behaviour.  I'd agree that 1 hr 35 is not enough though. 

So he's rolling onto his tummy?  I'm assume that he's not swaddled.  If he is, then it's time to take his arms out.  Rolling in their sleep can cause nw's.  like other milestones, they will usually practice in their sleep and often wake up for it.  Give him lots of opportunity to practice during the day so he doesn't need to practice in his sleep! 

Wrt tummy sleeping, yes, it's a sids risk but if they are able to roll themselves, then this is generally alright.  In the long run, you may not be able to prevent him from tummy sleeping but once he has the rolling skill down pat, I'd be less concerned (my dd tummy sleeps.  I always put her on her back but as soon as she's in her crib, she's rolling over).

Wrt to A times, it looks like you are around 2 hrs.  Given the rolling at night/disrupted sleep, I'd hold his As for a week or so and once his nt sleep improves, then try a slightly longer A.  I agree, it's hard when their As change all the time especially if you have stuff scheduled.  Try to go with the flow....

[Masonf]

Thanks, I'll keep ou posted