7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?

[Sjbc1019]

Sorry- I meant to and that after her am nap.  Anyhow- she just woke at 29 mins crying and fussing for a couple of mins then now she is playing, crawling, sitting and pulling up in crib.  What time should I put her down for pm nap?  2.5 or3?  What if she short naps again- says he wakes between 2:15-3:30 do we do a catnap or bedtime?  I think we agreed 2.5 is max for bedtime if she short naps but that puts at at 4:45-5:45.

Another long day !

[Sjbc1019]

Sorry- update.  I think she may have woken due to a bowel movement.  She has been dealing with a little constipation and she had a play dough texture poop.  I think this is why she woke up as she has been pushing and straining to get these out (sorry to be so graphic).  Anyhow, I think this is what woke her.

[Ima shel Alon]

Her naps yesterday would indicate ut, right with the 45 and 40 min nap?

40min nap can be either or and a good way to decide which one it is is by the way baby woke up. Was she crying when she woke up or chatty and ready to play? Also, are you sure that you are not rushing in too quickly when she wakes up too early from a nap? Do you still give her time after waking up till she calls you and needs you?

She fell asleep yesterday at 3 hrs22 and today at 3 hrs23- could that time be her sleepy time?

It's just how long it took her to fall asleep from being put down in the crib till falling asleep, I wouldn't make any conclusions based in that and would just stick to your A times that you decided on. I don't think you need a whole week for each A time, 5 days are a max, IMO. If she is UT with this A time and you are not upping it in time then she will just be more and more Ut and your nights will be harder and harder.

When she wakes crying we will pick her up quick and put her down and say our sleepy phrase then leave or stay there?  Also, when you say resettle her if she starts fussing once you put her down and before she is screaming, do you mean shush pat or something in her crib u til she is asleep?  We have tried putting hand on tummy, holding hand, etc but patting on but/side seems to work best but I am not sure when we stop that.  Is our goal to put her to sleep or just to calm her.  Also- we only pick up if she is really crying, right?  Or is it a constant pu/pd with sleepy phrase?

Is she pulling herself already in the cot? If she is I wouldn't pick up at all unless she is very distressed. When I did PU/PD and DS was sitting, not even standing, there was no PU anymore. I put him down and left the room immediately. If he started crying I would go in again, lay him down, not make eye contact and say the sleepy phrase. If he stood again I lay him down again. If he sitting I just stand in his room, not next to the cot and say the sleepy phrase, because often after a while he'd just go from sitting to lying down. I know that parents who do PD do PU when the baby cries a lot, for us that never worked. When I tried doing that DS got so wound up and was screaming when I put him down because he thought that I was going to hold him now but then put him down again There was no touching at all except for the PD. First of all he found it stimulating and annoying when I did and I on the other hand was worried that if I start stroking him or put a hand on him he is going to turn that into a prop (which happened in the past). Have you read the link that Katie gave you about PU/PD according to age?

What if she short naps again- says he wakes between 2:15-3:30 do we do a catnap or bedtime?  I think we agreed 2.5 is max for bedtime if she short naps but that puts at at 4:45-5:45.

This is something you gonna need to try out. I personally would have done a super short CN 'cause that's what worked for my DS, but there are many mommies here who use EBT and SEBT (super early bedtime) and their babies catch up on sleep beautifully. Every baby is different.

[katie80]

Noa's already given you great advice... just thought I'd add my two cents about PUPD.

When she wakes crying we will pick her up quick and put her down and say our sleepy phrase then leave or stay there?  Also, when you say resettle her if she starts fussing once you put her down and before she is screaming, do you mean shush pat or something in her crib u til she is asleep?  We have tried putting hand on tummy, holding hand, etc but patting on but/side seems to work best but I am not sure when we stop that.  Is our goal to put her to sleep or just to calm her.  Also- we only pick up if she is really crying, right?  Or is it a constant pu/pd with sleepy phrase?

Yes, you only pick up if she's really crying.  But, Noa is right, if she's already pulling up toward you, it's just PD.  If she sits up, you can decide if picking her up is better or just putting her down.  It really is dependent on the LO. I would stay with her until she falls asleep the first few nights, but then start leaving once she is calm.  As for putting her down, yes I would use the patting technique that you know helps her calm down... no use trying a bunch of other ones, when that one already works.  BUT, the goal is to helps her calm down, NOT to put her to sleep.  So, you need to stop the patting/etc when she calms and just stay by the crib and say reassure her with your voice if needed.

HTH!

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

I still feed her during the night- lately way more than I should.  However, she use to just wake once and I would feed.  Do I still keep one feed if it has been a decent stretch or do I just do pd for all wakes?

Yesterday she only woke twice during the night but woke at 6:15 which is early for her.  She also did not do an hour long awake stretch during the night which was great.  Her longest stretch though was only 4 hrs still.  We ended up doing the catnap and tried putting her to bed after 2 hrs10 mins and she screamed and cried.  I went in after 10 mins to nurse her and she calmed down and I put her down awake and she put herself to sleep.  It seriously was like a switch came on and she was ready for bed.  Maybe 2 hrs10 mins is not enough awake time even after 30 min nap at end of the day?

Today's naps- am pd at 3hrs17, took about 5-6 mins of playing and little fussing and put herself to bed.  She slept 1hr8 mins.  Pm nap- pd at 3 hrs20 and she seemed wide awake.  While doing routine she was playing with my face, smiling and talking.  She played and hung out in crib with hardly any fussing for 20 mins then went to bed and woke 29 mins later, fussing a little.  I went to try to nurse about a minute or two after wake up but she was wide awake and happy.  We pd for bed at 2 hrs50 and she cried with little scream but put herself to sleep in about 5 minutes and has been asleep for 1 hr50 mins as we speak.  Happy that she was able to make it through the first cycle without waking.

I cannot figure out when to put her down for her pm nap if she naps over an hour for her am nap.  I guess I do the same process I am for the am nap and keep trying the same time?  She has been waking with little fussing/noise then playing and when I get her she is happy.

We will try pd this weekend.  Does it matter who does it?  Is it better for me or my husband to do it- we both will do it but didn't know who might be best.  I know they say sometimes it is better for the dad to soothe because the babies know they can't nurse.  Also, when we are calming in crib, do we say phrase or just the butt patting?  Phrase is only when we put down or when she starts crying if we are not calming her in crib?

Thanks!

[katie80]

Do I still keep one feed if it has been a decent stretch or do I just do pd for all wakes?

You can still feed every 4-6hr. You decide what is best for you and her and then resettle all other wakes. Just make sure that if you start resettling and end up going over your allotted time, you don't stop to feed. You need to see it through until she's back to sleep and then feed at the next waking, even if it's ten min later. IIWY, I'd still feed twice, and once she's settling better for you, then you can work at pushing one of those out to get rid of it.

Does it matter who does it?  Is it better for me or my husband to do it- we both will do it but didn't know who might be best.  I know they say sometimes it is better for the dad to soothe because the babies know they can't nurse. 

Yes, it's often easier for LO to settle if the one who goes to her doesn't have milk. But, I would go with whoever will be able to see it through. My DH was more than willing to help with both our kids when we had to do some night training, but after trying a couple times, he wasn't quite as good at seeing it through and would end up coming to get me (mostly because he was a bit unsure of himself). So, I did all of the night training with both kids and it didn't take any longer than it should have.

Also, when we are calming in crib, do we say phrase or just the butt patting?  Phrase is only when we put down or when she starts crying if we are not calming her in crib?

You say your phrase whenever she needs help settling. Your voice reassures her of your presence and will eventually be the only thing you use, so as not to have something else like patting become a prop. So, say it while you're patting if she needs help, "Shh, honey, it's just time to go to sleep." Say it when calming in the crib and when you lay her down after picking her up. But, take note... if your voice or presence disturbs her more than it helps, then you can just sit silently too.

Good luck... here to hold your hand!

[Sjbc1019]

Thanks for the encouragement- I need it!  Quick question- so far she has woken up twice- 1st time took 1 1/2 hrs and 2nd time about an hour.  With all this lost sleep am I to assume we cut back awake during the day as she will likely be tired? Also- we decided to cut out all feeds (I know she is. It hungry) so it didn't confuse her.  With that said- should I be pumping at night to keep up my milk supply?

Thanks

[Ima shel Alon]

Today's naps- am pd at 3hrs17, took about 5-6 mins of playing and little fussing and put herself to bed.  She slept 1hr8 mins.  Pm nap- pd at 3 hrs20 and she seemed wide awake.  While doing routine she was playing with my face, smiling and talking.  She played and hung out in crib with hardly any fussing for 20 mins then went to bed and woke 29 mins later, fussing a little. 

Which day is of the increased A time? If you did it for 4 days or so I would increase it again by 10min.
The NW which are so hard to settle are very often UT and if you increase her A time then I think it will help with the NW as well.

With all this lost sleep am I to assume we cut back awake during the day as she will likely be tired?

Not necessary. It's so different from baby to baby that you will just need to try out and see what works for your DD.

[Sjbc1019]

I have been doing the 3 hrs10-20 since Monday.  However, today I was not sure when she woke- I think I could only be off by 10 mins or so but not sure exactly how long her awake was.  I put her down and she played and hardly made any noise and put herself to sleep in about 7 minutes.  At most I think I put her down at 3 hrs25and at the earliest 3 hrs15. So you think I should increase it now or give it another day or so?  Also- I should increase to 3 hrs30- put down around then, not be asleep by 3hrs30.

We decided to start pd last night.  She woke twice where we did pd and she woke once at around 5:30 and I was sure she was up for the day as she was playing with the camera attached to her crib.  I fell asleep though because she was not crying and when I woke 15 mins later she was asleep.

She is still only doing 2-3 hour stretches though.  To clarify, you think she might be undertired for her am nap but getting overtired for pm nap and bedtime?  For pm nap after at least an hour am nap should I try to put her down at 3hrs30 (or whatever I do in the am)?  Yesterday she short napped and played quietly for 20 mins after 1hr8 min nap after I put her down at 2 hrs20.

Thanks

[Sjbc1019]

She woke from am nap after 33-34 minutes with no crying, just cruising around and playing.  Given the short nap if you think I can increase the awake time, what time do you think she should go down then for pm nap?  Thanks

[katie80]

With all this lost sleep am I to assume we cut back awake during the day as she will likely be tired?

My DS was a big time NWer from 7-10mo.  I never really changed his A time much during the day unless he was totally exhausted.  I wanted him to make up for the lost sleep at night again, not during the day.  Eventually he did.

Also- we decided to cut out all feeds (I know she is. It hungry) so it didn't confuse her.  With that said- should I be pumping at night to keep up my milk supply?

Is she taking many solids?  Do you do a DF?  If you truly believe she isn't hungry, then you don't need to fed her, but there are lots of EBF babies that still have a DF or NF until 9/10mo, so I wouldn't totally rule out hunger unless you are quite sure.  Doing PUPD at the right times and feeding at the appropriate times will not confuse her if she needs a feed.  And if she doesn't need it, then I wouldn't worry about pumping, unless you want some extra milk to be giving her during the day in a bottle or sippy cup.

[Sjbc1019]

Sorry for all the post- I should save everything and post at the end of the day but things keep popping up and I don't want to forget. 

Regarding pd- once she has calmed do I just stand there until she falls asleep or go aay from her view?  She calmed then would start back to crying so it was helpful to be right there to do the phrase but I am not sure when to leave.  I don't want her to expect to see me all the time to fall asleep.

Thanks

[katie80]

Regarding pd- once she has calmed do I just stand there until she falls asleep or go aay from her view?  She calmed then would start back to crying so it was helpful to be right there to do the phrase but I am not sure when to leave.  I don't want her to expect to see me all the time to fall asleep.

I would stand there for now and over the next several days start moving farther and farther back, until you can leave the room.  You can say your sleep phrase from anywhere in the room and if the crying escalates, then you can go to her and help her calm in the crib. 

[Sjbc1019]

We posted at the same time!

Yes, she nurses 4 times a day and has solids 3 times a day.  We made it last night with no feed so unless I feel she isn't getting enough during the day we will cut out the feed.  Good to know the rule of thumb if I do decide to feed- we will be consistent with each wake up.

I put her down at 2 hrs10 mins for pm nap after a 30 min nap.  I think she was overtired a little but felt we had to try to delay a bit in case she only slept 30 mins we can try putting her down at 5:45 (3 hrs).  I am still needing to figure out when to put her down for pm nap if she short naps and if she takes an hour nap or longer.  Based on the suggestion from the other moderator I will slightly increase her awake time in the am to see if it helps. 

Thanks

[Sjbc1019]

I put her down for pm nap at 3 hrs10 mins - sorry about the typo.

I will stay by her side per your suggestion.