Author Topic: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?  (Read 20889 times)

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Offline Ima shel Alon

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If an EASY is working for a while and then suddenly baby start to nap short and wake early in the morning it usually indicates UT. If she was OT her EW would be with lots of crying.
I would work on extending the A times back to 4h and from there keep on increasing a bit till the morning nap is longer. are you aiming for the morning nap to be the long nap and the PM one to be capped? If you are then like I said I would work on extending the first A time *gradually* till her nap is 1.5h long or longer. I would increase by 15min every 3 days so she doesn't get OT and that she has enough time to get used to her new A time.
I would leave the second A time on the short side because we anyway aim for it to be capped so it's ok if she is slightly UT for this one.
When DS was this age I actually set the PM nap at 16 even if it was a shortish A time before it because I wanted it to be 45min till 16:45 and then BT was always at 19.

The 2-1 transition is not an easy one, I can't think of anyone here who didn't have issues while going through it, so you are doing ok, her routine just needs a bit tweaking and a bit playing around till we find the right A times.
HTH :)
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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2013, 00:00:51 am »
We tried 4 hrs and she cried and needed to be nursed to sleep.  She also woke crying and under 30 mins.

I am trying 3 hrs45 again for a few days to see how she does.  Te way she wakes, falls asleep a d the length makes me think ot so pulling back to see.  On Monday we also tried 4 hrs15 thinking from the good naps the week before she seemed a bit ut.  Fail- went terrible.  The rest of the week was about 3hrs45 with mixed results but all hard going down, short naps and crying when awake.  Yesterday she did 35 min nap and woke chilling- first time all week.  Thought ut so today put down at 4 hrs- she really cried for 8 mins then I went in to nurse and she napped 20 mins and woke crying.  Tried pd for pm nap at 2hrs45 because it seemed all week she was ot for pm nap when I tried putting her down at 3hrs5-3hrs30.  She cried hard and I went to nurse to sleep.  Slept 22 mins and woke really crying.  She as woken for almost every nap crying.

At night since all week her naps total are less than 1 hr we are putting her down early.  She seems to want to stay up for 2hrs45-3 hrs even with only less than 1 hrs worth f naps.  Bedtime going down is peaceful and she puts herself to sleep in just a few minutes.  She then sleeps for 9.5-11 hrs then wakes for an hour then usually sleeps for 1-2 hrs aain.

I knw you say she seems ut but the way she s waking and length seem ot.  I tried pushing awake and she freaked.  I have no idea what is going on.  Luckily she is sleeping a lot at night but her naps are terrible.  I am exhausted trying to figure her out.  The 3hrs45 time was working at the beginning of aug then we went on vaca for 2 weeks with teething so awake was all off, then when we came back the 3hrs45 seemed to work although it seemed she was a bit ut, on suggestion went to 4 hrs for a few days and went well, then the next week freaking out when putting her down and under 30 min naps with lots of crying.

Any suggestions are appreciated.  Thans

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2013, 11:57:03 am »
If you want to stick to 3:45h for a few days it's totally fine.
I do think that she is ready for more A time but that's just the way it is - babies don't like it when we increase A times and often fighting it, that's why we always say that only on the 4th day of an increased A time you can make conclusions re A times. It just takes them time to get used to it.

11h at night is fine but anything under it is actually not enough for most babies so I would say something really needs to change in her routine, yk?
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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2013, 12:54:51 pm »
I will do 3hrs45-4 hrs awake and see how it goes.  I will stick with it for a few days.  I guess I am confused because if she is ut at 3hrs45 shouldn't her naps still be a bit longer and the wake up nicer?  She sleeps 18-25 mins and cries and cries when awake.  Is that normal for awake increase?

Last night she woke at 1:30 and I nursed and fell asleep pretty much right away.  Then at 5:00am as usual and was up for an hour (nursed her then too).  I assume the 1 am awake was because she is so ot from the less than 1 hrs worth of naps for the last 2 weeks. 

After a 20 min nap I have tried putting her down at 2hs45, 3hrs,3hrs15- nothing seems to work and the nap length is usually about 22 minutes with crying wake up.  Could she need to go down after short nap at 2.5 hrs?  I am confused because at night she wants to stay awake 2hrs45-3 hrs before peacefully going to bed.  It would be strange that her awake is shorter for the pm nap than at bedtime? 

Thanks

Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2013, 07:46:01 am »
So,just wanted to give you an update on today.  The good news is that she put herself to sleep for both naps- she hasn't done that in awhile.  The am nap I Luther down at 4 hrs and she fussed for a few minutes then fell asleep for 24 mins, woke quietly then fussed.  I,eft her in crib for 10 mins to see if she would settle but she was just sitting and waiti g for me at the bottom of the crib.  Pm nap I put her down at 3hrs15 and she fussed again for a few minutes then fell asleep for 28 mins, woke initially quietly then started crying.  Got her right away and then she was hysterical- I think she was still a bit out of it and wanted to sleep more.  She finally settled after a few minutes.  Finally for by we had her down at 2hrs40ish.  She was tired.

Bt- woke for the second day after 6/7 hrs sleep (she had been doing 9.5-10.5 hr stretches).  First night nursed her as she was standing up and crying.  Tonight I let her fuss for 5 mins as shewas laying down the whole time.  She was quiet then for 30 minutes just awake but not really doing anything.  She started crying then and I went in to do pd/sleepy phrase.  I did this for 1 hr10 mins and finally nursed heras by this point she had been up for 1.5 hrs and she was having such a hard time settling.  She finally went down after being up 1hr45 mins!  I don't know if she will wake at her usual 5am (which I normally feed and she is awake for an hour but then sleeps for another hour or two). I hope she sleeps through!

So, several questions.

When I increase the awake is 22-30 min naps normal?  Will that nap get longer as she gets use to the increase or if it stays 20-30 mins does that mean I need to increase it again or decrease it? She is putting herself to sleep against I feel like we might be in ballpark of appropriate awake except the very short naps.

This is week 2 of her getting less than an hours worth of naps each day so she is way ot.  Is there anything I cando combat this build up of ot?  I think this buld up of ot is causing the night waking after 6/7 hours down.

I am getting so frustrated trying to figure it out!  Really appreciate the help.


Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2013, 12:08:16 pm »
She sleeps 18-25 mins and cries and cries when awake.
That wouldn't necessarily indicate OT. Usually OT naps are 30-35min long. I would try and stick to 3:45h A time for a while and see if she settles into her A times. Maybe she needs more time than other babies do.

Have you considered discomfort? Teething or Reflux?

Last night she woke at 1:30 and I nursed and fell asleep pretty much right away.  Then at 5:00am as usual and was up for an hour (nursed her then too).  I assume the 1 am awake was because she is so ot from the less than 1 hrs worth of naps for the last 2 weeks. 
OT NW usually happen in the first part of the night so it can actually be that she is really hungry.
At 5AM when she is awake for an hour, what is happening then? Is she crying? Chatting? Are you going in to her?

This is week 2 of her getting less than an hours worth of naps each day so she is way ot.  Is there anything I cando combat this build up of ot? 
If there is any AP that works for you then you could try that for a couple of days to let her catch up on sleep and then start again with PD.
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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2013, 12:41:05 pm »
I started 4hrs yesterday.  Are you saying to go back to 3hrs45 or just be consistent with one time for awhile?  If so, I will stick with4 hrs for a few days as she was able to put herself to sleep.  I had been doing 3hrs45 and getting hour naps but was encouraged to move to 4 hrs(she also seemed ut to me).  Please clarify.

I don't think it is discomfort that is waking her.  She cried/fuss at both early morning wakes.  I only let her try to sooth for 5-10 mins on Sunday night then nursed and she went back to sleep.  Last night she cried for 5 mins then laid there for about 25-30 before starting to cry.  I did pd for 1hr10 mins but she just couldn't settle so I finally nursed her.  She was up for 1 hr45 mins.  Slept until 5:30, let her settle for a bit then nursed her and she was back asleep in about 40 mins for another hour and woke at 7:10.  So she still woke at her normal 5ish.  With loosing so much sleep last night should I put her down earlier for her nap?

Before the last two weird nights of multiple wakings when she woke at 5 she would fuss for a few mins then chill.  I tried nursing her right when she woke and also after she was hanging out for 30-40 mins.  Same results- up for at least an hour.

I have no idea when to put her down for any naps!  What happened to the long 9.5-11 hour stretches?  I can only assume ot since she barely sleep during the day.  Unfortunately we can't do APOP as she only sleeps 30-40 mins in car, won't sleep in stroller and don't think she could sleep past a cycle in my arms.  When they get chronically ot do you encourage to pull back on awake time or just keep the course and hope she can make up for sleep at night?

I also don't think she is hungry although she has been eating less during her day feeds but she is eating a lot of solids.  Honestly if I would have known it was going to be 1 hr45 that she was awake this am I would have just nursed her!  It's tough to know what to do when she does that extra nw because she knows how to fall back asleep and I think she is just ot.  But if I nurse will she expect it and make it a habit?

Thanks

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2013, 13:47:50 pm »
I started 4hrs yesterday.  Are you saying to go back to 3hrs45 or just be consistent with one time for awhile?
If you started doing 4h then great, stick with that for a while.

So she still woke at her normal 5ish.  With loosing so much sleep last night should I put her down earlier for her nap?
I would follow her cues, some babies can handle normal A after short nights (DS was like that).
Is she waking up every night at 5? Could it be habitual?

Before the last two weird nights of multiple wakings when she woke at 5 she would fuss for a few mins then chill.  I tried nursing her right when she woke and also after she was hanging out for 30-40 mins.  Same results- up for at least an hour.
That sounds like a typical UT NW.

When they get chronically ot do you encourage to pull back on awake time or just keep the course and hope she can make up for sleep at night?
When CHRONICALLY ot I would do 1-2 days of catching up on sleep, AP or offering as much sleep as possible, even if it's just 40min naps, but to have loads of those, and then go back to the previous A time and stick with it.
You can of course go for EBT to give her an opportunity to tack. Not all babies do that, but many. And it doesn't work in one night, you need to give like 3-4 nights to see if EBT is working.

But if I nurse will she expect it and make it a habit?
Of course, if you are going to do it for a while, not once in a while. I start to think that this is also what is happening at the 5AM NW... I think she got used to eat then and needs it to go back to sleep.

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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2013, 15:26:15 pm »
Thanks for the quick replies- I am going crazy trying to figure this out.  So you think the 5am waking is ut?  What do I do about that then?  Just leave her and if she doesn't fall back asleep after an hour start the day?  I hate to start the day so early that is the reason I was feeding because she would wake after 9.5-11 hours.  Or do I try pd if she starts crying?  I do think it might now be out of habit as well so what is the best Approach to handle it since she usually is not really crying.

I put her down again at 4 hrs2 mins this am and it took a few mins but no crying.  She went down peaceful- we will see!

Do you think the night wakings could be because she has been having 11 hr days rather than12 because with less than an hours worth of naps we have to do an early bedtime.

Thanks!

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2013, 12:24:08 pm »
I am afraid I don't have the answers to everything, there are just things one needs to try out and see if they work. It could be that when her routine is better then her nights will be better as well and the EW will be gone.
Till then, the first thing I'd try is W2S for the 5AM WU (How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)) especially as it seems as the feeding doesn't actually work and she still stays awake. If that doesn't work (and it needs about a week - a week and a half to work) then I would simply not go to her if she is not crying. If you are feeding or going in to settle then you might be interrupting her trying to settle herself back to sleep. If she needs your help falling back to sleep then she'll let you know :) and then I would do PD.
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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2013, 15:26:10 pm »
Hi
 
So, we have been doing around 4 hrs awake for the last week for am nap.  She has gone down easy and within 5 mins and her np lengths have been:  24, 57, 37, 47, 58 mins.  A couple of days we tried 4hrs10/15 and had 31 and 27 min naps.  I think the 4 hrs has def given better naps, faster going down and good wake up.  However, with those nap lengths and how she wakes up makes me think ut so that is why we tried longer awakes but then got very short naps.  Should we continue 4 hrs and just take 40-50 min naps or try to push her to 4hr15 and expect maybe very short naps at the beginning but hope they get longer with time?  I am nervous to do it because I absolutely cannot figure out her awake for pm nap of she has a short am nap.  I feel like we have tried putting her down anywhere from 2hrs45 to 3hrs45 with the same results- very short naps and crying when waking.  Can't figure out awake when she short naps and then trying to short nap her of she does take a long nap has been tough.  She stays up 2hrs45-3hrs15 after pm nap to bed depending on her naps during the day so we really can't do a whole full wake from am nap to pm nap if she takes an hour long nap without putting her to bed so late.  What are you suppose to do in this situation?

Regarding nights, she is waking anywhere from 4am-5:30am.  I have been letting her chill or fuss for a bit then usually nursing Herron 10-15 mins then putting her down completely awake.  She takes 15-20 mins then to fall asleep but she doesn't cry just lays there and maybe moves around.  Typically up for 45-1hr.

I do feel like she is transitioning to 1nap but not sure how to handle it if the longest nap she takes is an hour!  I guess it just ride it out until her am stretch she can stay up for close to 4 hrs30?  (And pm too)

She is 10 months.

Thanks

Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2013, 20:41:42 pm »
After 4 hrs am awake she slept 1hr11 mins.  She only had 10 hours sleep the night before (sun) where else on sat night she slept 13!

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2013, 17:12:27 pm »
Should we continue 4 hrs and just take 40-50 min naps or try to push her to 4hr15 and expect maybe very short naps at the beginning but hope they get longer with time? 
When you are increasing A times there are usually 2-3 days of OT naps, so I would give it a shop again. Some babies take up to a week to get used to a new A time.
so we really can't do a whole full wake from am nap to pm nap if she takes an hour long nap without putting her to bed so late.  What are you suppose to do in this situation?
At this age there is anyway not enough hours in the day for her to do 2 full A times, 2 naps and another A time before BT. Most babies start the 2-1 transition at her age (she is around 10m, right?) - From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older) so I would say it's ok for now to aim for one good nap and one short nap. Maybe increasing the first A time will help with the nap.
I also found it very difficult to find the right A time before the second nap so I just set it at 16 and that was that. I stopped stressing about A times and DS set his body clock, we were all happy!
Regarding nights, she is waking anywhere from 4am-5:30am.  I have been letting her chill or fuss for a bit then usually nursing Herron 10-15 mins then putting her down completely awake.  She takes 15-20 mins then to fall asleep but she doesn't cry just lays there and maybe moves around.  Typically up for 45-1hr.
This again makes me think UT...

I agree that she starts the 2-1 transition but it's only the beginning and it will be a while till she will be on one nap. Most babies drop to one nap between 12 and 18m.
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Offline Sjbc1019

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2013, 17:22:21 pm »
Today I put her down at4 hrs awake again and she napped 28 mins and woke crying.  She did wake early at 6:15so maybe she was tired?  Her naps at 4 hrs awake have varied from 1hr11 yesterday to28 today!  I don't know if this means e awake time is good for her and she is still settling or if it means I should increase it.

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 7 month old waking 30-45 minutes after being put down for night- ut or ot?
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2013, 17:40:03 pm »
If you are not sure then I would still wait for a few more days and stick to the 4h A time.
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