20 wk old NW - have you had success with wake to sleep???

[Violet's mom]

Hi!  My 20 wk old is waking up to party at 1 am - wondering about wake to sleep and if you have had success with it?  She isn't hungry just playing loudly with her toes mostly.  Been in a sleep sack for 3 weeks and got rid of paci at the same time (waking up every hour for it and rolling over looking for it).  I'm nervous to try the wake to sleep method...  how does it work and how long until the 1 am party disappears?  She has a second wakening between 3am and 4am - I don't mind feeding her since I know she has an early bedtime ( she is much happier with her early bedtime and nap schedule).  Dream feed was unsuccessful - it made her wake up more!


How old is your child? 20 wk
What’s his/her daily routine? 
E 6:45am
S 8:30
E 10:00
S 11:30
E 1:00
S 2:30
E 4:00
E 6:00
S 6:30
E 8:00 and right back to bed.

What’s nap routine?  sleep sack, lullaby and slow dance, put in crib awake after she rests her chin on my shoulder
How long are naps? usually two 2 hrs and one 45 min nap
What's bedtime routine? Nurse, Book, sleep sack, lullaby and slow dance, put in crib awake after she rests her chin on my shoulder Time? 6:15 to 6:30
Do you bottle or breastfed? breastfeed
 how long? 10-15 min (I've tried extending this but she spits up really bad or gets mad)
If breastfed.. one side or both?? one side
How many wakes per night? 2
What’s your LO like when waking at night? pretty happy but loud How long is he/she up? about 45 min
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? fussing but occasionally crying
What have you tried to settle?? yes but it just wakes her up more
What do you do for A time and how long is it? take walks, read books, play with toys, talk and she usually only lasts 1.5hrs before she gets grumpy
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? no
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? Got rid of paci three weeks ago
Do they have a lovie? Not yet - working on it

[katie80]

Hi there,
Have you tried feeding at the 1am waking?  She's already gone 5hr by that point, and I think there's a chance she could be hungry.  That might get rid of the 3-4am waking and get you to morning.

The other thing I notice is that her A times are on the low side for her age.  I'm sure she does show tired signs at around 1.5hr, but her NW sounds UT and that is often attributed to not enough A time.  At 5mo, I'd expect her to start going about 2hr A time, so I think if you gradually lengthen it, by even 5-10min every few days that will help you get there.  You mentioned she does 2 long naps and a CN, but the day you posted has 3x1.5hr naps.  That might be too much consolidated day sleep with not enough A time for her age.

I think it's worth looking at those angles first, because wake-to-sleep won't work if there's something in the routine or a need like hunger causing her to wake.  Here's the w2s info... How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)  It can take anywhere from 3 days to two weeks to fully work.  I'd try it for a week and then let her go and if she still wakes, try for another week (as long as you've ruled out the reasons above).

Hope that helps.  Let me know what you think!

[Violet's mom]

Thanks - her daytime sleep is still pretty unpredictable.  I wish I could get her A times longer but she just gets really overtired and then cries herself to sleep no matter what I do.  She doesn't eat much at the 1am feeding so I don't think she is hungry - just wanting to use me as a paci.  I'm just exhausted.  Thanks again!

[katie80]

Well, maybe just push the A times by 5min or so.  And you can do one at a time, if she's sensitive to it.  Just remember its better to have her awake during the day, rather than at night.  (((Hugs))) for being exhausted.

If you've ruled out hunger, w2s is worth a try!  Keep us posted.

[Violet's mom]

Thanks Katie!  It really has helped to push her A times - she's napping better and sleeping from 7:30pm to about 6 am!  I recently just read the BWSAYP because I didn't realize there was another book and I am working on transitioning her to a 4 hr EASY.  Today I let her play in her crib at 6am and she fell back asleep by 6:30 and I woke her up at 7:30 to start the day and feed her.  Two concerns

1.  She is spitting up more recently - is four hours too long to go between feeds and maybe her stomach isn't big enough? (only her morning is a 4 hr EASY at the moment)
2.  I read on one of the forums that EBF babies can't always do a 4hr EASY - what do you think?

[katie80]

Glad to hear of the progress, that's great!

Yes, it's possible that 4hr is too long for her to go yet.  It is normal for EBF babies to not make a full 4hr EASY until solids are established.  You can do a combination of 4 and 3.5hr, with the 4 in the morning and then getting shorter as the day goes on.  Or you can do a main feed, then a top up feed about an hr later (when you will eventually add in solids), so that she goes 4hr between the main feeds.  Whatever you think will work best for her!

[Violet's mom]

Ok so I've been really trying to increase her A times and such, but now I wonder if she is overtired?

Her nightwakenings decreased (except last night - she would roll onto her stomach and then cry because she couldn't get back - its always something haha) and she just went through a growth spurt so I am trying to get her back on her routine. 

My question now is about naps - she has been waking after 20-30 mins, cries for about 10 seconds then plays for about 15 mins until falling back asleep for anywhere between 45 mins to an hour.  Is this ok?  What am I doing wrong that she doesn't sleep through?  Is she just a short napper?  I feel so bad leaving her in her crib to go back to sleep when she clearly wants to play!

[katie80]

Some babies go through developmental short napping from around 4-6mo.  What A times are you working on now and how old is she?  Can you give an example of your EAS for the last couple days?

It's great that her NWs have decreased!

[Violet's mom]

E 7:15 am
A 7:30
S 9:05am
E 11:00
A 11:30
S 1:00
E 2:50
A 3:15
S 4:45 - 5:30
E still figuring out.  Last night I waited til 6:00pm then when I put her to bed at 7pm she was still really hungry - not sure if I should cluster feed or just wait til 7?  Going to try 6:30 tonight.
S 7pm
DF 10:30

Thanks again!

[Violet's mom]

Oh and she is 21 weeks old.   Her a times change as the day goes on based on her sleepy cues. 

[katie80]

So, based on that EAS she's sleeping a good 2x1hr50+ min naps and a 45min CN?  I think that looks perfect, really, even if she is waking in the middle and going back to sleep.  If she starts waking and not going back to sleep, then I'd add on a bit more A time.

E still figuring out.  Last night I waited til 6:00pm then when I put her to bed at 7pm she was still really hungry - not sure if I should cluster feed or just wait til 7?  Going to try 6:30 tonight.

I did a cluster feed at this age... so I fed right upon waking from the CN and then again before BT.  My DS was hungry enough to take two good feeds there until he started solids around 6mo and the cluster feed naturally dropped after a bit.

HTH!

[Violet's mom]

Ok thanks!  I did the cluster feed today and it seemed to work well - bedtime was easier.  Today she had 3x1hr20min naps which was unusual but she woke up at 5:30am and would not go back to sleep so it makes sense.  I fed her at 6:45am and put her down for her first nap at 8am so we will see how tonight goes.  How long did you dream feed until?

[katie80]

How long did you dream feed until?

Until I felt that they were really getting enough from solids to make a difference... about 9/10mo with both.  Some drop it and just let it go to one NF again and then wait for that to gradually drop as well.  It's up to you and what's best for you and your baby.