Please show me links for "wake to sleep"

[Marie-O]

My almost 6month DD2 keeps waking up at least 2 at night, I'm starting to see a pattern and she's up around the same time every night.
I want to try WTS and see if that works. I'll try to do ANYTHING before doing again PU/PD which we did for a while but my DD1 kept waking up with her sister's screams and it was a real mess bc she wouldn't want to go back to sleep.

Please show me the path for wake to sleep info, I can't seem to find it.

TIA

[katie80]

Here you go... How do I address habitual wakings?  (wake-to-sleep and other methods). . It can take anywhere from 3-7 days to work (I know some have even done two weeks). Let us know if you want to take a look at EASY or see if there is anything else to tweak. 6mo can be a tough time of developmental leaps, teething, GS, etc; so don't count those out either. But, if the wakings truly are habit and not driven by a need, wake to sleep should work!  Let us know how it goes!

[Marie-O]

Thank you Katie!
Yes indeed there are so many things going on with her: teething, rolling over, solids...
BUT she's been waking up pretty much at the same time since long ago. Actually I would say is worse now than before

Finally we are doing very nice independent sleep at naps and bed time, but she keeps waking up 3-4 times at night. She doesn't take a paci at anytime of the day. She's BFed but I give formula at BT.

Here's our EASY give or take:
6am Wakes-up
6:30 nurses
8:15 - 9:00 nap (long wind down in her room and put her in bed while still awake)
9:30 nurses
10:30 baby cereal or fruits
11:15 - 13:45 Nap (sometimes less than 2h)
14:15 nurses
16:00-17:00 Nap
17:30 nurses
19:00 bath and BT (5-6oz formula)
21:30 4-5oz formula (this used to be a DF around 10:30pm and she keeps waking up before, now she wakes up at 9:30pm)
NW:
1am (I try to make her sleep again and she cries so much she wakes up her 2,5yo sister, then I have to make her sister sleep too...is a mess)
3am nurse her 10min
5am nurse her 3min and falls back asleep quick
6am wake up for the day

I really need help at night. I think w2s might work since she wakes up almost at the same time.

Should I do it for ALL the NW or just the one at 1am and 5am? I think she still might need one night feed which I'm ok with...but not 4!!!

Thanks!!!

[Marie-O]

Ok so last night I was goint to try w2s, I had my alarm clock set at 12 since she usually wakes at 1am.....she woke up at 11:50pm gggrrrrrr!!!!!!
So she was only complaining and matra crying so I let her, after 5min she fell asleep and I couldn't believe it!!! 2 min later she woke up again mantra crying and then real crying so I had to go see her ((sight)). I tried to make her sleep but she screamed so much that I ended up BF . She nursed for 2min and fell asleep so I put her back.
Woke up again at 3:30 and it's ok for me so I nursed her, she nursed longer both sides and went straight to bed.
Woke up again at 5:30 happy and didn't want to go back to sleep

So what do I do tonight? Do I set the clock at 11? She really usually wakes up at 1am...I don't know what to do

[katie80]

Oh no, nothing like an odd wake-up to throw everything off!  Is she actively teething right now?  I just wondered, because typically a NW like that where they go back to sleep only to wake up again can signal discomfort.  If so, have you tried pain meds?

I think I'd be inclined to stick with what her usually waking is and set your alarm for 12am.  I'd just try to get rid of one NW at a time by w2s.  Have you ever been able to settle her in the night without feeding?  It's possible that she could have a BF prop at night but not at naps and BT.

The other thing I wondered is if she might be getting a bit too much day time sleep with that long nap after lunch and then another hr in the late afternoon.  You might try cutting back the late pm nap to 45min and see if that makes a difference.  You may need to being BT back to 7pm (sleeping by then) when you cut the nap.

(((Hugs))), NWs are so exhausting!

[Marie-O]

Is she actively teething right now?

I don't see her gums swollen but she had 3 days last week where she couldn't settle for any nap and red cheeks and chin. I thought might be teething but never sure. She's fine now.

Have you ever been able to settle her in the night without feeding?  It's possible that she could have a BF prop at night but not at naps and BT.

Every time I try she cries so much that DD1 wakes up and is a total mess cause DD1 starts crying and then doesn't want to go to bed.
Just once, DD2 mantra cried for 10min and fell asleep on her own, the next night she slept through that habitual time, we were so happy that she was finally "almost" sttn...well that didn't last long, she went to her old self within 2 days .

The other thing I wondered is if she might be getting a bit too much day time sleep with that long nap after lunch and then another hr in the late afternoon.  You might try cutting back the late pm nap to 45min and see if that makes a difference

We just increased her A time, used to be 1h45 and she's now 2h15. Also we just got rid of one nap since she used to do 2 short naps in the afternoon and now she does a bit longer one, but 3h until BT is a very long stretch for her. I'll keep pushing it slowly.

You know that it all got wonky when we introduced the DF (around 3 months old). Before BT was around 7:30 and she used to wake up around 1am and then at 5am but then we introduced the DF to see if she will skip the 1am feed and sleep until 5. Well of course she didn't and kept waking up at 1am, also got used to the DF and started waking up before the DF until a ridiculously situation like now that she wakes up at 9:30pm (after drinking 6oz at 7pm) and drinks another 4oz. I'm going crazy!!

(((Hugs))), NWs are so exhausting!

Thanks for the hugs . Indeed I'm exhausted and cranky and frustrated...

[katie80]

Every time I try she cries so much that DD1 wakes up and is a total mess cause DD1 starts crying and then doesn't want to go to bed.
Just once, DD2 mantra cried for 10min and fell asleep on her own, the next night she slept through that habitual time, we were so happy that she was finally "almost" sttn...well that didn't last long, she went to her old self within 2 days .

Tis makes me wonder if there isn't a bit of a prop issue, along with the fact that now she wakes for the DF and takes milk at all of them.  She's getting a lot of oz from BT til 1am. . It could be that the DF disrupts her sleep and that causes her to wake more in the night.  Would it be worth it to try to settle her at the 9:30-10:30pm waking for a week or so and see if it makes a difference in the rest of the night?  Your DD1 might be in a deeper sleep at that time and either not wake or be easier to get back to sleep.  Can your DH just camp out on DD1's floor for the nights that you are trying to settle DD2 or vice versa?  That may not be worth it for you all, but if DD2 started sleeping better, it might be!  Did you ever try using some louder white noise for DD1 to see if she'll sleep through the crying better?

Also we just got rid of one nap since she used to do 2 short naps in the afternoon and now she does a bit longer one, but 3h until BT is a very long stretch for her. I'll keep pushing it slowly.

Oh, maybe I misunderstood when BT is, sorry!  As you had it written, I thought BT happened just 2hr after the 1hr late pm nap, so was thinking maybe that wasn't enough time to be properly tired at BT and that's why she was wide awake in the MOTN.

If you think there's a chance she might be teething, you might try giving her some pain meds and see if it helps.  More (((hugs))), I know how unfun it is to be up so many times in the night.

[Marie-O]

I really do think is a prop!
Last night I did w2s and instead of waking up at 1am she woke up at 2:30...not sure if that was a huge success but is something.
Then she woke up at 5:30 and after BFing for 3min she went back to bed until 7am.

I'll try what you say resettling at 9:30pm instead of giving DF and see what happens. DH finally arrives from a looong trip and it will make things easier as he will be able to help.
As for DD1, not sure if 10pm she's lighter sleeper, she's been very funky and rebel and waking up  A LOT at different times of the night. Yesterday was at 10pm and she didn't want to go back to bed. BT with her is VERY difficult, she's definitely giving me a lot of work and I'm so stressed and sleep deprived that I think they sense it...so things get worse instead of getting better.

Anyways, DH will arrive soon and hopefully will help me control this night-madhouse

[Marie-O]

I really do think is a prop!
Last night I did w2s and instead of waking up at 1am she woke up at 2:30...not sure if that was a huge success but is something.
The she woke up at 5:30 and after BFing for 3min she went back to bed until 7am.

I'll try what you say settling at 9:30 instead of giving DF and see what happens. DH finally arrives from alooong trip and it will make things easier as he will be able to help.
As for DD1, not sure if 10pm she's lighter sleeper, she's been very funky and rebel and waking up  A LOT at different times of the night. Yesterday was at 10pm and she didn't want to go back to bed. BT with her is VERY difficult, she's deffinetly giving me a lot of work and I'm so stressed and sleep deprived that I think they sense it...so things get worse instead of getting better.

Anyways, DH will arrive soon and hopefully will help me control this night-madhouse

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for being there

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Marie!  I get easily stressed too when doing BT with both kids and things don't go smoothly.  I hope you are able to make some progress with DH's help.  Please do let me know how things are going!

[Marie-O]

Sorry last post went twice...don't know why!?

Last night was very different. I don't know if that's good or bad...lol!
DD2:
9:15pm woke up started crying I went in picked her up she looked for the breast but I kept holding her, when she was calmed I put her down and she started fussing again so I picked her up and she stayed calmed and I held her a bit longer until almost asleep and put her down...no problem!
10:30pm woke up again this time she didn't re-settle at all, she was desperately looking for the breast so I BF her.
1am woke up, complained and matra cried a bit. I ignored her and she re-settle herself (I didn't even go into the room)
2:30am woke up again, mantra cry then crying very loud. Tried to re-settle and she kept screaming so I gave her 5oz bottle.
5am woke up same as above except this time I BF her and within 3 min fell asleep again. Slept until 6:30am

This is getting confusing....I guess by re-setteling her at 9:30 everything changes. I wonder if I have to absolutely NOT feed her before 1am??

[katie80]

This is getting confusing....I guess by re-setteling her at 9:30 everything changes. I wonder if I have to absolutely NOT feed her before 1am??

It's likely that might need to happen sometime soon, although I'd make the time to be 6hr from BT feed, rather than a set time.  It may not be the best thing to do right now, though as there is often a GS around 6mo and if she's waking and gone at least 3.5-4hr in between feeds, then it could be genuine hunger.  Although it's also worth it to note, that if feeding to sleep is a prop, she may be 'looking for the breast' regardless of hunger. You'll have to decide what you think is best.

[Marie-O]

You'll have to decide what you think is best.

ouff that's the hardest part...lol!
What seems logic to me is that if the DF never worked then we should get rid of that NW and feed her ONLY ONCE at 1am, then try to resettle the rest of the NWs until 6am....very easy said than done!!
As you said before I'll work on 1 NW at a time. DH finally arrived so he told me he could take care of re-setteling since it might be easier as she won't associate him with a feeding/breast.

Let's hope for the best! Thanks again! I'll keep you posted

[katie80]

Yay for DH's help!  FX for you guys!