Multiple NW again. And we were doing so well, too...

[stephanne2]

We moved to a 2-3-4ish schedule a little while ago--about a month maybe? Previously, we'd been doing a 2-2-5ish schedule and the 5 hour WT at night was simply because naps were horrible,  LO refused that last CN and the earlier we'd put her to bed, the earlier she'd wake (I could never figure out EBT to where it worked for us, apparently.)

With a little tweaking, our naps stabilized right around 1 to 1.5 hours and when we moved to a 2.5/3/4 schedule, our NW went from 2-3x per night to 1x per night, with LO sleeping from 7:30 to anywhere between 3:30 and 4ish (a couple of times to 5am!)  It was GLORIOUS!!! (LO is 30 weeks today, and 2 days shy of 7MO). Those longer night stretches had been a LONG TIME in the making!!!

Well... those longer nights lasted a little less than 2 weeks. For three nights now, she's been back to waking again between 1:30 and 2am, then again at 5am, then 6:30 or 7(DWT).  Coincidentally, when the frequent NW started again, her naps had also gotten to about 1hr, 45min to 2hr long leading me to believe maybe she was getting too much DT sleep. In the past, if she slept any more than 3 to 3hr, 15min during the day, our NW increased.  But I figured, if she was taking those longer naps and waking up kind of groggy from them (as if she'd slept really hard?) then she must have needed the sleep. So I didn't limit them.

But yesterday, she had a 1.5hr morning nap, a 45min afternoon nap, went to bed 30 minutes early (7pm) and woke at 2:30 and 5. Then I had to wake her at 7. Probably OT there.

I suppose it's possible that for her, having too much DT sleep is still the culprit--only time will tell. I suppose I'll limit naps to 1.5hr and see what happens (though I SOOOO hate waking her anytime, be it naptime or in the morning! She's such a sweet little sleeper!)  But is it also possible that there's something else causing her NW to have returned? I mean, when we were down to 1 NW at 3-4am, she was still waking early (at 6/6:30ish) so it was far from perfect, but... at her age, shouldn't those longer stretches be more of then norm than the exception?

I thought about teething, though she shows no physical signs of it--gums are not swollen/white, there are no bumps, she's been an excessive drooler since day 1 so I can't use that to gauge and other than a low grade (99.2F) fever, I'm not convinced it's teething just yet. (DD1 didn't pop out her first tooth until 8MO, so I'm not surprised.)

Constipation is also possibly to blame a bit--maybe?  She hadn't had a BM in a few days (we've always struggled with constipation) and this morning had a rough way to go with a poo that obviously hurt. (She screamed when I changed her diaper.)  So maybe she's just been uncomfy in her tummy. I don't know.

All this to say... i'm not sure what to do at this point. Wait it out and see if she goes back to the longer stretches and less NW or try tweaking her WT's a little more to see if maybe that's the case?  Again, her naps (with the exception of yesterday's short pm nap) have been stellar. She goes down for naps and BT awake (and falls asleep almost immediately) so I think she has the ability to self-soothe, for the most part. As it is, I think her one NW was more habitual than anything, but I didn't want to tackle that until it had really stabilized.

Anyhoo... here's her schedule.

7am - DWT
E - 7:30 Nurse, 8:30 Solids
A = 2.5 hours (and she's fighting sleep to last that long as it is... push it and extend to 3?)
S - 9:30 to 11
E - 11:30, Nurse, 12:30 Juice (for poo reasons), Solids
A = 3 hours
S - 2 to 3:30
A = 4 hours (at 3.5 hours, she would wake earlier in the A.M. but possibly still too long?)
BT = 7:30

MOTN #1 - 2:30 (lately), 3 to 4am when on longer stretches
MOTN #2 - 5 (lately), 5:30/6 with longer stretches

What would YOU do?

[katie80]

Hi there, I'm glad you had a good run in there, but am sorry to find you back here.  I think her EASY looks just fine, really.  If you want to start capping naps at 1.5hr, you sure can try to see if it makes a difference, but I think the fact that she stabled out and then started sleeping better naps suggests that it's a pretty good routine for her.  You could also start gently pushing that first A to 3hr, but I don't think there's a clear indicator that that needs to happen right now. 

At this point, I'd go more with the discomfort angle.  Constipation can be a definite problem for LOs as they start solids, and it sounds like you've been dealing with it even before then.  I'm assuming that you've discussed this with her Dr, as you are giving her juice mid-day.  What types of solids is she having?  Does her Dr think there are any food intolerances at play? 

What happens when she wakes at night?  Does she wake crying and upset or is just awake and making noises?  Are you feeding her each time she wakes or will she settle with shh/pat?

(((Hugs)))

[stephanne2]

Constipation may be it, really... after two days with short PM naps, 2 days of more NW's, and a short A.M. nap this morning (30 minutes!!!) she struggled with a BM that had her SCREAMING and writhing in pain.  The Dr. has us on a reverse brat diet and we also avoid cereal because it tends to clog the pipes. Her poo is SOLID (hard), so last week they prescribed Miralax until things get moving along a little better.  She has MSPI and is BF, so I also have no dairy in my diet as well.  After her painful BM this afternoon, she did take a longer nap again, so maybe she's feeling better.  Unfortunately, our day got a rough start with that first short nap and her 1.5hr nap lasted until 2:30. There's no way she'll last until BT of 7:30, so looks like EBT tonight! Poor thing...

I hope constipation is the culprit (for me, not for her, poor thing) because I feel like I FINALLY found a schedule that we were settling into!  I just found it odd that the DAY she started getting those longer naps, was the DAY the NW came back full force. Coincidence, I guess. Only time will tell!  Maybe I'll wait it out a day or so before I go tweaking the schedule again to see what happens. Hopefully the MiraLax will help with the poo issues.

When she wakes, it's usually just fuss off and on or a mantra-like cry.  I don't respond to those unless they get "violent" or turn into a cry. When we were getting the longer stretches, at 3:30 am, she'd start mantra crying, but I'd go ahead and respond because I was so proud of her for sleeping 8-9 hours in a row in the first stretch, I didn't want to push my luck!  If we pass this "hump" I'll probably start waiting out those mantra cries too, to see if she puts herself back to sleep again.   She is typically fed at NW, because when I do respond, sshh/pat and/or PU/PD only seem to make things worse (she gets even more upset at the sight of me). So she's fed and then goes RIGHT back down.

Thanks for your input--it's good to hear that our EASY schedule sounds okay for right now... that's what I've been fretting the most!

[katie80]

Oh (((hugs))), poor little thing!

I just found it odd that the DAY she started getting those longer naps, was the DAY the NW came back full force. Coincidence, I guess. Only time will tell!  Maybe I'll wait it out a day or so before I go tweaking the schedule again to see what happens. Hopefully the MiraLax will help with the poo issues.

Yes, it is hard to know what is the true culprit and you can't deny the correlation of the longer naps and the NW starting.  But, even with shorter naps the past few days, you're still getting NWs, so I would give her tummy some time to get sorted and then reevaluate.  I'm going to check with another mom of a MSPI LO who's just been through this, as I think she also tried giving the Miralax at different times of day to help avoid night time disturbances. 

Hang in there, hon.

[stephanne2]

Thanks so much... I'm definitely interested in what the other MSPI Mom's experiences were.  I intended to give LO the Miralax in the morning, but I'm so used to BF'ing, I kept forgetting to fix a bottle instead! Oops!!  She took it at dinner time--coincidentally after a large, MUCH softer poo. Maybe she just needed that hard BM to get things going again.  Naps were short in the a.m. and normal in the p.m., I put her down about 45 minutes early and she slept until 3:30ish again, so... *crossing my fingers* that it's a poo issue!   I mean, WT's don't get much longer than 3 hours for awhile, right?  Looking at our schedule, the only thing I feel I can adjust right now is the morning WT and I'm not 100% sure she's ready for that. Whew... she's definitely a puzzler!

Thanks SO MUCH for all your help!!!

[ZacsMumme]

Ugh we had horrendous NW with constipation and intolerant related solids that T was eating. He ended up not being able to tolerate pear!

What solids is she on? Have you tried a day with no solids?

I'm glad she has passed a better poop. Keep an eye on it as we would get constipation then soft one, then constipation again

But yes, constipation defiantly messed with sleep in our house. Caused NW, EW etc x

[stephanne2]

She has either peaches or prunes in the a.m., juice in the afternoon and sometimes either peaches or squash or we just stick with the juice, and then squash or sweet potatoes in the evening.  Those are all the foods we've tried (she's only been on solids about 5 weeks.)  We've stopped cereal all together (unless I need it to thicken up a food I've made a little too runny in which case it's a miniscule amount), she's not a fan of pears and I can only get her to eat green beans or peas if mixed with either sweet potatoes or squash.  We typically go easy on the sweet potatoes because I heard those can constipate (?) and she has not had bananas or apples for the same reason.   I feel like her diet is so limited because we're avoiding so many things, but I guess it doesn't really matter at this stage/age, right?

When we first started solids, I did take a break from them for awhile (when she went a 12 day stretch w/o a BM), but now they're such a part of her routine it seems, when it comes "time" for a meal (about an hour after nursing), she's VICIOUS about letting us know she wants a little something more!

The pediatrician has also started her on Miralax, 1x per day until things are moving, then to back off, then go back on once things firm up again, etc, etc.  I'm REALLY stressing about that part because I'm a HORRIBLE pumper (a topic posted in another thread) and my frozen milk is precious. Offering her one 4oz bottle/day is the equivalent of 3-4 days worth of pumping for me! And with her MSPI, formula isn't an option right now--she won't take the hypoallergenic ones. :-(

[stephanne2]

But yes, constipation defiantly messed with sleep in our house. Caused NW, EW etc x

Meant to ask...  when did things start to "regulate" for you? Did the constipation phase last long or was it at least manageable once you narrowed down which foods were the most likely to cause problems?

[ZacsMumme]

But yes, constipation defiantly messed with sleep in our house. Caused NW, EW etc x

Meant to ask...  when did things start to "regulate" for you? Did the constipation phase last long or was it at least manageable once you narrowed down which foods were the most likely to cause problems?

Thomas was only on 3 foods and he had hideous constipation, on lactulose, maxed out on relfux meds and on neocate. i couldnt work out what was going on. Drs kept getting me to up the lactulose and feed more solids but they were making him worse. from advice here, i cut the pear from his diet (he only had that, pumpkin, chicken broth). within 24 hours he slept, andwithin 48 he pooped a normal poop. i also started him on domperidone after a lot of pressure to my dr to get his gut moving. after 3 days i stopped the laculose and he isbeen fine ever sice!

but, do note that he is an exception yk? not all los are ridiculous intolerant

here is one of my threads
Fructose malabsorption - anyone want to share knowledge? top of second page is his sleeping

I do want to say though that if you feel nothing is working. It doesn't hurt to just stop...I was terrified to cut pear because I couldn't believe that could be it. And I was scared that if it was then what could he eat. But in doing so I discovered that it was causing the pain, along with the lactulose which was meant to be helping (it's sugar) .

Maybe try a few days with no solids at all. If things improve the. Maybe then try the pumpkin only for a week. And reintroduce slowly. The thing with LOs that had I tolerances is that they take time to show themselves so you don't necessarily 'see' a reaction for some time. Constipation is not always, but can be a symptom of an intoleranece.

I assume your milk and soy free yourself if BF? Do you eat gluten?

[ZacsMumme]

Also thought I'd mention finger food..if your think she is ok with it, there is no reason you can't offer something like a chunk of lean lamb to suck on, or a roasted pumpkin chip.