Support for dropping the nap part 10...

[ZacsMumme]

It's with Tink, well that worked for Z anyway

[PineapplePrincess]

Thanks Tinkerbell and Zaksmumme! I am not really sure if that is working for my LO. We have experimented with some things the past few days. Well for three days he consistently accepted a shorter A before the nap and he slept 9-7 with a nap around 1:15/1:30-2:45/3:00. Well then we got an early wake up today because of a wet diaper. He slept only 9:10-6:30.. Terrible! My mom watched him today and she put down for his nap at 1:10. I thought since it was such a short night he wouldn't put up a fight. Well he didn't nap till 1:50 and I had to wake him at 3:00 as it seems that waking by 3:30 was causing all the mucking before bedtime and giving us very low over night sleep. I know he is probably OT by now from the short night and short nap. I really don't know what to do with his sleep.

I do see what you are saying about pushing the first A longer so I don't get an UT nap, but it seems like the days I tried for an earlier nap he didn't fight it as much and went down in like 10-15 min as opposed to the 30 he was taking before. He seems like he needs a really long A time before bed (6 hours).

[Mama_Mia]

Some LO's do need a longer A after nap than before. In that case I would stick with the time you did nap that he went to sleep easier and do the longer A time after his nap. Have you tried cutting the nap down to a time when he switches sleep cycles? For us I had to cut the nap down to 45 min. I had tried cutting to one hour but he was a bear when I woke him. So I went with 45 min because that was his natural sleep cycle. And to start with when cutting the nap, I would just go in and gently lay my hand on him until he woke on his own. That way it wasnt such a shock to him, it was more like he just woke up on his own. If you shorten his nap, then I would do an earlier BT as 9pm is quite late with a 6:30-7 WU.

[PineapplePrincess]

Thanks, MamaC. I don't intend on him having a 9 pm bedtime, but that is when he falls asleep even if I put him down at 7:30. This happened last night and he fought nap till 1:50 as well. We woke at 3:00. Then he fought bedtime till 9:30 but woke at 7:30.

I decided to do a no nap day. So far he is holding up ok, but we'll see how bedtime goes. I plan on doing close to a 7:30 BT. So you gave a 45 min nap? I suppose when you wake them has to do with sleep cycles, huh? At one hour he was a bear! After a NND maybe I'll try a very short 45 min nap. I will see how much ONS we get tonight. If we get 12 hours then he probably won't want a nap tomorrow.

[Mama_Mia]

It really is difficult, I remember when M started fighting and staying up late and having nws and such I would have sworn he was UT when he went to bed. But I bit the bullet and put him to bed at 5:45 instead of 7 and after a couple of days everything changed, he was sleeping better, the long NW's were disappearing and he was happier and easier to deal with. But at that time he was only napping 45 min as I had already cut his nap down so that he would sleep better at night. I actually just remembered there were times when I first cut his nap to 45 min that I would watch him on the monitor and as soon as he rolled over or fidgeted thats when I would rush in and put my hand on him. That way he didnt go into the next sleep cycle and he was much happier waking at that time.

You dont want to wake them in the middle of a sleep cycle because then they are grumpy and upset that you woke them, if you do it when they stir it is more like them waking naturally.

Another idea, if you think it might work is to try what we do. M stopped napping when he hit 21 months but by 4pm he was getting grumpy from either OT or OS so I decided to try to give the nap back to him, but he never would fall asleep. So I started and still do put him down at 1pm every day for what we call break time, if I tell him nap time he gets upset. Anyway, I put him down at 1pm and get him up at 1:45, if he woke earlier than 7am that day I will leave him until 2pm. But he doesnt mind it, he has a flashlight and I let him take 1 small toy with him. This gives him enough time to process anything that happened that morning and gives him enough of a break to get him to his 6pm BT without getting grumpy. But he is very spirited and he is non stop all day so he wears himself out which is why the break time works with him. I dont know if it would work if he was more relaxed and laid back. And no matter what time I put him to bed it always takes him 30 minutes to go to sleep, so keep that in mind, sometimes LO's just need time alone to wind down before falling asleep. And that doesnt always mean they need a later BT.

I hope you get it all worked out

[PineapplePrincess]

Mama_C, wow 21 months he stopped napping? That's really early, but some kids just transition earlier than others. So we tried two no nap days in a row. First day after a 9:30-7:30 night i kept him up. He went all day with hardly any meltdowns. He slept 7:30-7:40. Awesome ONS. The following day he did ok too, but i put him to bed and he slept only 7:30-6:45. I think he can only do about two no nap days in a row till he starts to kind of fall apart, so I think what I'll do is alternate nap and no nap days. On the nap days, I'll offer the 45 min. like you said so if woken he won't be a mess. I haven't tried 45 min yet, only 1-1.5 hours. Even that much of a nap keeps him up till 9:30/10 pm and he gets very low ONS. I am hoping with 45 min. it's enough to recharge him, but not so much of a nap that it has him mucking 1.5 hours at night for bed. He still will need lots of A time with a nap though, probably minimum 12.5 hours as we were pushing at least 13 or more last week with a 1.5 hour nap.

[rachsk8]

I'm just here to have a wee vent mainly... this dropping the nap business is hard, and just when I think I have a 'formula' that works, the rules get changed again!  My LO only 'sometimes' falls asleep in the car now, I'm not sure what this means.

We've also all had a bit of a head-cold this week (not too major, but still there.)  Wondering what you do if your LO is unwell, or seems extra tired?  Do you let them nap as long as they want, and keep BT the same?  Not that my LO will nap at home at all anymore.  But yesterday we went out in the car and he slept for 1.5hrs (I let him, he was sooooo tired and grouchy).  Then 6.30pm BT (our usual time) but it took him 1hr to fall asleep.  He woke at 3.30am and 5.45am then was up for the day at 7am.  NW's are pretty common here lately.  He seemed happier this morning at first, but still had his grump-pants on by the afternoon!  Went for a 6.10pm BT and he went out like a light.  The past week, he has been taking anywhere from 40m-1hr to go to sleep at night, regardless of whether he has napped or not (suspect a bit of OT building up?)

Such a confusing time, I never know if I'm here or there at the moment!!!

Since starting this transition, we have moved BT up to 6.30pm, whether it be a nap or a NND.  Is this what you guys do also?  If things are really turning to cactus, I go for a 6pm BT.  I'm scared to do any earlier than that... but maybe it would be a good idea to try 5.45pm to see if he will catch up if OT?

[Mama_Mia]

PineapplePrincess thats great that he slept so well after the 1st no nap day, it may work really well doing alternating days nap/no nap. I cant believe he has such long days, my DS was on 5hr A times quite early (8 months if I remember correctly) but now that he is older and more active he only manages an 11 hour day or he starts having ew's, then it takes about 3 days to get him back to sleeping 6:30-7:00. Ha, that doesnt add up to 24 hours does it, lol. The other 30 minutes is the time it takes him to fall asleep at night. He goes to bed at 6pm but doesnt sleep until 6:30. Anyway good luck, I hope it works out for you and he starts getting more ONS.


 rachsk8, For us, if DS takes longer than normal to fall asleep its from OT and he then has an EW. So an even shorter night with going to sleep later and waking earlier. Then the next day is more of the same. It usually takes about 3 days of doing a bit earlier BT 5:30-5:45 before he'll catch on and start sleeping again. And when we dropped the nap his BT moved from 7pm up to 5:45-6:00. it worked for us and have been doing it for over a year but not sure how other people adjust to the no naps.

[*Becky*]

we seem to have hit the 1-0 pretty hard in the last week (DD is 32 months)
we are getting lots of EWings and then today she did fall back asleep and is now kicking her cot at naptime. I tried nap capping last week so a 1.15 nap but it did not seem to help. I cannot work out whether it was OT i.e. 1.15 every day is not enough for her or whether it was not enough of a cap. Part of me just wants to drop the nap altogether but I will probably regret it if I do!

[TB9]

How often does she have no nap days Becky?  I got to a point with dd1 where she needed no nap days and regular nap days mixed in...it worked out much better than trying to cap nap every day to keep a nap every day, yk?

[*Becky*]

she never has a NND unless she nap refuses but because she is up early she rarely refuses the nap iykwim. How did it work for you - she can def handle a NND, just not sure how often. What did you do?

[TB9]

DD1 would refuse nap, so I would just let her refuse   You could start with throwing in a no nap day twice a week maybe?  I would just do quiet time with her for an hour instead of nap time.  I would read with dd1 for quiet time, or put a short movie on for her.

[*Becky*]

ok sounds good. On nap days how long did you allow her?

[rachsk8]

Ladies, can you tell me what you think and if I should tweak our day?

We started dropping the nap at age 2.  (October last year).  So we have been going 4 months now.  In January we had a pretty reliable formula of capping the nap at 1hr and BT was 6.30pm.  WU was around 7am - especially after the first NND, gradually getting earlier the more NND's had passed.  By day 3 we were pretty well ready for a nap!  (99% of naps now are car naps, as I just can't be bothered with the fight at home which usually results in no-nap anyway.  However, there are times/days he won't even nap in the car.  Perhaps this means he's just not tired enough for a nap, if that is the case.  Other times he goes to sleep in the car without a problem).

The past week or two things have gone haywire again.  It's been harder and harder to get him to sleep at night after a nap-day.  He's not upset, just lying there talking and looking around.  Generally taking somewhere between 45-60mins to go to sleep, but now instead of sleeping til 7-ish the next morning, he is waking earlier, like 5.45-6am.  So, we are getting less ONS, which is not ideal.  Yesterday it took my LO almost 1hr to go to sleep in the car for his nap, even though is was day 3 (which is usually a nap day).  I believed he was tired, and when he did finally go to sleep, he zonked out and did not want to be woken after 1hr!  :-(  Cranky afternoon resulted.  Last night he was asleep by around 7.15-30pm (took him about 45mins to get to sleep) and he was awake and not able to be resettled at 5.45am this morning.

One night I believed LO to be quite tired, after an early morning wake up (6am) so I put him to bed at 6pm (earlier than usual) hoping he would tack on, but he still woke at 5.45!

I should add, we still get NW's most nights as well.  Some could be UT, I guess, but there are definite nights of OT wakes too.  I think the nights when he wakes and is crying/restless are definitely OT, whereas sometimes he wakes and gets out of bed but is not upset, which perhaps is an UT wake?

I'm just wondering where our 11.5-12hr nights have gone?  Do you think it's time to cap the nap even shorter? Or, (heaven forbid), try 3 NND's before a nap-day?

I'm so tired of this process and the multiple NW's and EW's!!!  Your help support and ideas is as always, very much appreciated.  x o x o x

[TB9]

Becky - how about 1.5hr nap on the days she does nap?

Rachsk8 - Sounds like he may be ready for more no nap days.  Personally I never did car naps, they would have caused more problems for us.  I always let dd regulate herself by allowing her to refuse nap.  DD had the nap dropoed by 2.5yo, so your LO may be closer to having the nap dropped than you realize