13 month old - pulling her hair - can't sleep independently

[anna*]

Fantastic! Well done! Do expect a regression, but just stay strong and be consistent. You will have an independent sleeper in no time! How is she doing with hair-pulling?

[mellismum]

She hasn't pulled her hair too much at all, surprisingly.  Only a bit when she was crying going down for her afternoon nap. 

I've just put her down for her morning nap.  Only took 20 minutes, 4 lay downs and no crying at all.  I'm so happy!!

MM

[mellismum]

Hello, me again!

Well, it's Day 4 now and it has been going well up until now but today has been a bit of a nightmare and I have some more questions.

DD normally wakes at 6.30 ish and is usually ready to sleep again at 9.  If I put her down much later than 9 she has a shorter nap of 30-45 minutes instead of 70-90 minutes.  Today she woke at 6.50 so I started trying to get her to nap at 9.40 and it took 1 hr 10 minutes.  Not much crying but loads of fidgeting, banging the cot bars, standing up and generally rolling around the cot.

Because she didn't wake until 11.50 she didn't seem tired enough for an afternoon nap so I gave her an early bedtime and started trying to get her to sleep at 5.55.  It took 30 minutes and there was a lot of crying.  She was getting very wound up and would only fall asleep when I rubbed and patted her back.  How do I avoid the patting/rubbing turning into a prop?

I think the problems today are because she was UT this morning and then OT this evening.  Or could it be regression happening already? I'm not even totally convinced that I'm doing it right. 

When she stands up now, I get up from the chair to put her down and when I stand up she sits down quickly by herself. I've been treating this like a stand up and laying her down from a sitting position - is this right?

When she's fidgeting and rolling around I just kind of ignore her and look the other way and only speak to soothe her when she's actually crying. Is this right?

Thank you very much in advance!

[mellismum]

Update - she woke up about 30 mins after going down which hasn't happened since we started PD. She normally sleeps through.

Wasn't quite sure what to do as she was crying hard so I laid her down a couple of times and then ended up patting her back again and she was asleep again pretty quickly.  Can already see this turning into a prop.

She has a tooth coming through but she had Calpol 20 minutes before bed and teething gel just before so presumably I can't do much else. 

[anna*]

Hi there. She's right on time for the regression so it could well be that. I actually find Nurofen much more effective for teething than Calpol. The 30 mins waking after bedtime says OT to me.

DD normally wakes at 6.30 ish and is usually ready to sleep again at 9.  If I put her down much later than 9 she has a shorter nap of 30-45 minutes instead of 70-90 minutes.  Today she woke at 6.50 so I started trying to get her to nap at 9.40 and it took 1 hr 10 minutes.  Not much crying but loads of fidgeting, banging the cot bars, standing up and generally rolling around the cot.

Because she didn't wake until 11.50 she didn't seem tired enough for an afternoon nap so I gave her an early bedtime and started trying to get her to sleep at 5.55.  It took 30 minutes and there was a lot of crying.  She was getting very wound up and would only fall asleep when I rubbed and patted her back.  How do I avoid the patting/rubbing turning into a prop?

It sounds like you're in the start of the 2-1 nap transition. I'd say she probably needs her morning nap to be a bit later, and perhaps keep it short and then you'll be more likely to get a decent pm nap. Lots of mums do a long am nap and then a pm catnap, but with both of mine if I tried that they just refused a second nap and were awfully OT by bedtime.

I think you did what you needed to do this was a wonky day because of the nap situation. Sometimes you have to pat them to sleep BUT to avoid it turning into a prop you need to keep an eye on the OT situation. and be quite strict with yourself about only patting until she's calm. Once in a while it's fine to pat her to sleep but always always keep your eye on the goal which is independent sleep. There's a support thread for the 2-1 transition up at the top of this page.

When she stands up now, I get up from the chair to put her down and when I stand up she sits down quickly by herself. I've been treating this like a stand up and laying her down from a sitting position - is this right?

I would try not to lie her down any more. Just sit there and be present, but don't intervene at all unless she's really crying, and then try and use your voice. Tell her to lie down, repeatedly, gently. If necessary, sit by the cot and pat the mattress. If she can lie herself down, you don't really need to. Remember, intervene as little as possible. The least help you can possibly give. If you can leave the room and go back in only when she's really crying, so much the better.

[mellismum]

Today has been a much better day!

She woke at 7 and I thought I'd try to keep her up for longer assuming that she'd be getting tired at 9 as usual.  But she didn't start yawning and getting cuddly until about 10.30 so I put her down at 10.50.  It took 10 minutes, no crying, no PD and she slept for 1 hr 20 mins. 

Again there wasn't really time for an afternoon nap I've given her an early bedtime of 6.00 and again she was asleep within 10 minutes with only a little crying and no help from me.

I've also tweaked her routine a bit.  I was doing: milk, bath, story with daddy and then bed but I think the story is too stimulating immediately before bed so I've changed it to story, bath, milk then bed and it seems to be working much better.

As she's settling quickly now I guess I should be thinking about starting to move the chair a bit closer to the bedroom door now.  But in light of the fact that her routine will be interrupted next week with my working, maybe I should wait until next week is over and then starting moving the chair - what do you think?

Thanks so much for all your help, I can't believe it's working so quickly!

MM

[anna*]

You are both doing so well!

A word of caution about the switch to one nap. Be careful if you're doing it cold turkey, it can seem to be going well and then spiral in to a nightmare of overtiredness. To get through a day on one nap consistently, she really needs to be able to handle at least 4.5hrs awake time, and do a good long nap. Many babies don't make the switch until about 15 months, and for a while leading up to that will do a short (20-30 mins) catnap plus a longer nap.

I'd start moving towards getting out of the room now. She is clearly a clever little girl and I expect next week will be less disruptive than you fear. Worst case scenario, you just go back to where you are now!

[mellismum]

She was definitely OT yesterday at bedtime and woke up 45 minutes later.  She settled pretty quickly though and slept until 6.15.

I don't really think she's ready for 1 nap yet so I think I'm going to try to keep the 60-90 minute morning nap and try for a 20-30 minute afternoon nap.  I don't know if it makes any difference to how much sleep she needs but she's quite petite for her age. Although she's 13 and a bit months she's not quite in 9-12 month clothes yet so I wonder if she needs a bit more sleep than other 13 month olds.  Or maybe not.

So this morning she was rubbing her eyes and yawning at 9 so I started putting her down at 9.10.  She fidgeted a bit and looked like she was going to sleep and then got a second wind and was running up and down her cot and banging on the bars.  I tried patting the sheet and asking her to lay down but she just removed my hand from the cot!  I left the room to close the curtains in another room as I thought it might be too light and then when I was outside I decided not to go back unless she really cried.  She didn't really cry but wasn't sleeping either, just singing and chatting to herself.  After 20 minutes I went back in and sat with her and she was asleep within 5 minutes.  Presumably she'll wake up at 10.45 - 11.15 so I'll try for a CN at about 3/3.30ish - does that sound about right?

I'm going to start moving towards the door from bedtime tonight so will see how it goes. 

MM

[anna*]

Honestly I don't think size has much if any bearing on how much sleep they need. Both of mine have been on the 98th centile, and she is pretty high sleep needs where her brother was pretty average. It's pretty normal for a 13 month old still to need two naps.

The plan sounds good. My two would never take a pm catnap if they'd had a long am nap, so we did short am long pm, but if it works for her then great.

[mellismum]

So I'm now on day 18 of PD with my DD and could really use some more help please.

I've now got to the point where my DD settles herself while I'm sitting by the door of her room but she takes anywhere from 5 minutes to 40 minutes to settle and I'm getting very frustrated and starting to lose patience.

The heatwave we're having is really not helping and her room isn't as dark as I'd like but I have to have some windows and curtains open a bit or her room is stifling.

She quite often sits down when I ask her to lie down but won't go all the way so I'm still lying her down quite a lot.  She is still pulling her hair sometimes too but I end up pulling her hands away and rubbing her back for a bit which usually works.

I think what I need to do now is make the next step to outside her room but I'm not sure quite how to do it. Do I sit in her doorway or out of sight? And do I keep poking my head in to see if she's lying down or just stay outside until she actually cries?

Thanks for your help.

MM

[anna*]

I'd go out of sight if you can... she might cry a bit at first but if you keep repeating your sleep phrase over and over she'll realise you're nearby and should lie down eventually. If she's just sitting but calm, you won't mknow because you'll be outside the door but that's OK because you don't need to do anything unless she's really upset! Sitting and calm is fine - she doesn't need any help/words/intervention from you.

[mellismum]

I've had a rough week with PD and it doesn't feel like I've really made any progress.  I just can't seem to make the move to outside the door.   Every nap and bedtime I say I'll do it next time and it's a week later and I'm still by the door on the stool Her cot is beside the door anyway so basically in the last month I've pretty much moved from one end of the cot to the other end.

DD is now 14 months and I've been doing this for a month now and it still seems to be taking ages to get her to settle.  I don't think I'm always putting her down at the 'right' time.  I find it really hard to judge exactly when she's tired and ready to sleep.  Her routine this week is:

Up - 6.00
S - 9.30 - 10.45
S - 15.00 (haven't been able to get her to take this afternoon nap for a few days)
BT - 19.00 (18.00 if she hasn't had the pm nap)

I think it's time to try a short am nap and long pm so I'm going to cap her nap this morning to 30 mins (10-10.30) but I'm not sure what time I should be aiming for her to sleep this afternoon.  Any thoughts please?

MM

[anna*]

Why can you not get out of the door?

You could probably make the switch to one nap, now - or at least very soon. You'd do a nap at about 11-11.30 am. It will take a few days for it to start to lengthen out. If you want to do a couple of weeks of short am/long pm, I'd try the pm nap at 1 and see how that goes.

[mellismum]

Honestly, because I think it will be really hard and I just don’t have the energy.  I feel like I’ve been battling for about an hour every day (2 x naps plus bedtime)  for a month now to get her to sleep  and I’m running of patience and confidence that it will work.  I’m also pregnant with number 2 and just so exhausted all the time and emotional.  I’m trying to stay calm and not get too stressed which is impossible because even though I’ve only been in her room for 5 minutes it feels like hours and that all the subsequent time is all added to it. 

She’s pulling her hair again too.  I had been pulling her hands away and rubbing her back but I was ending up rubbing her back about 50% of the time instead of her going to sleep on her own.  So I’ve been letting her pull her hair and hoping it’s not too bad.  She does it for about 5 minutes but she isn’t crying or anything and it doesn’t send her straight to sleep either.  I’m not sure how much longer I can do that for either as she seems to be doing it even more than before and when I get her up from a nap she has lots of brown hairs on her pyjamas

So, today I capped her nap to 30 minutes and woke her at 10.30.  She didn’t seem tired in the afternoon so I tried to put her down at 2.45 but she was wide awake so I got her up for another 30 minutes then tried again but she wouldn’t sleep.  Gave her an early BT of 5.45 and she went down straight away but woke up 30 minutes later.  She settled quickly though and hopefully that’ll be it until about 6am tomorrow, fingers crossed.

I’m not sure if that really made sense and I know it sounds really negative but I’m finding this sleep training so hard at the moment and starting to lose the plot a bit.

MM

[anna*]

I think you just have to make that final push. I would get her onto one nap now. She's shown she can go to sleep alright after a long A time so I would make that push to one nap and get out of her room. Even if she's crying you can be by the door talking to her and she'll know you're nearby. It's not going to be any harder than it is now, in fact, she could be like my little one and being in the room actually antagonises her more.

(((hugs))) you've done so well so far, let's get this job finished you deserve some more Y time back.