Cluster feeding, dream feeding, and 'routine'.

[<Catherine>]

We don't have much of a routine, we were feeding every 2-3 hours during the day and he was going 4 hours at night. Over the last few days he's waking sooner for night feeds, GS I assume.

Routine wise, he's still so little (just over 3 weeks), but at what point should I be trying to implement an EASY? During the day he'll often be awake for 2 hours in the morning and sometimes again in the afternoon, so we're doing more of an EAES.

Is it too late to introduce a dream feed (didn't do this with DS1)? Tracy suggests cluster feeding at 6pm and 8pm - what is cluster feeding? Simply 2 feeds close together?

[anna*]

If you are doing a couple of EAS cycles, and he's having one nap a day in his basket, I'd say you're doing golden. For us, cluster feeding was just 'feed and feed and feed until eventually she stops fussing and stays asleep' of an evening... so would be feeding every hour or so from like 6pm til 10 or11. No harm in doing a dreamfeed if you want to try it but personally I'd get to bed as early as possible and sleep until he wakes you!

[Fiver]

What Anna said.  DD just naturally cluster feed from around 4pm onwards until we were getting her to bed around 7 and was then often in the sling from then until we went to bed.  We didn't bother with a DF either as it had been such a disaster when we tried it with DS!  But you could give it a go.

Obviously having some sort of routine is helpful to everyone, but in some ways, until the fast and frequent early days growth spurts have passed, trying to establish some sort of routine can be more of a frustration (or that's what I found!)  Follow your instincts.  You'll know when you and he are ready

[Shiv52]

What they said.

And yes there is a BIG GS at 3 weeks!!

[<Catherine>]

Thanks girls. Great, you kinda confirmed what I was thinking. I think we'll carry on as we were, I was thinking the same about the DF - Tracey's words were something like "DF at 10/11pm before you go to bed" and I did think "bed at 10/11pm?!".....I need to be in bed before then!!

Anyway, I've just tried the DF as I woke just before 11pm (his last feed was about 8.20pm then I went to bed) so thought I'd give it a go. I'm not convinced he took much, if anything at all, he wasnt actively sucking. It was actually hard work to get him to stay on the breast. I guess the proof will be how long he wants to go before his next feed now?

[Shiv52]

Neither of mine really took a DF until about 6-8 weeks. Before that I just fed in the night when they woke and went on to bed early and hoped for the best.

[<Catherine>]

Well he's just woken for a feed now at 12.25 so there's my answer!

[Shiv52]

Yeah I'd leave it a few weeks and see what you think then xxx

[cuckoochick]

We never introduced a DF either but C was a fussy feeder in the evening, constantly on the breast from us trying to get her into bed at 7 (aiming for that 7-7!) until she'd eventually conk out between 10-11! Cluster feeding- more like constant feeding!

On more settled nights though it was the pattern you'd describe feeding about 12midnight and the. That gradually pushed back to 1am and then even further.

Sounds like you are doing fab Catherine! Hope I'm where you are in a few more weeks xxx

[<Catherine>]

Well Nicola I was exactly where you are a few weeks ago so in sure you'll see a huge change really soon. After that first week things really improved.

Well last night was horrendous! And dh is away so I was up with DS1 at 6am too. He has been an angel all morning though, and its not often I can say that these days!

Because of my attempted DF we ended up with 3 NFs rather than the usual two , and he struggled BIG time with wind after the 12.25 feed, I was up with him til gone 2 and then he was awake for his next feed at 3.25

[enna77]

I agree with the whole DF thing, in the early days my theory was if I was awake I'd give it a crack ie say if I had feed her around 6 and then I was going to bed around 9-10pm I knew she wasn't going to go much past 3-4 hours anyway so might as well give her a top up before I went to bed, but I certainly wasn't going to wait up for it as like you said theres a lot of early BT for us in the early days & getting sleep when we can needs to take priority. 

[Fiver]

Sounds like you're doing great, Catherine.  I just found I couldn't find the right spot in the sleep cycle where I could lift him, get him latched on and get him to suck and then back into bed asleep!  I was great at him being far too deeply asleep to open his mouth or so lightly asleep that I woke him up!!

[shivi]

I did it two different ways as had two very different babies (and big kids as well come to think of it ;-)

Oscar - fed 3hrly and then naturally cluster fed from 6 to around 9pm every night - was his natural pattern and then he'd conk out.
I pumped milk in the am feed from opposite boob (and sometimes 2nd am feed as well) and then DH would DF him (started at 2 weeks) from a bottle so I slept soundly till Ozzie or my engorged boobs or both woke me for MON feed(s). He woke around 2 and 5 am for first few weeks and then from 6 weeks onwards only at 3ish am. So I got asleep around 9pm and only woke one. My boobs got used to this and I produced ample amounts of milk in the am and never had to pump more than 5-10 mins to get a decent DF ready for the evening ahead. Kept this up throughout (and when back in work and Ozzie was older, what I pumped in work I used in the evening).

Emma was a different story. She hadn't the energy or power to cluster (had a tongue tie, was very unsettled and very unhappy at breast). I was pumping anyway in the am with the same plan in mind as for Ozzie and was so stressed in the pm as Oscar was a nap-dropping 2.5 yr old, was on my own with them both and DH not home till 8pm ish some nights. So what I had pumped in the am I used to get Emma thro the witching hours of 6-9pm (basically, I would have her in the sling, get Ozzie sorted, get him down, get her on the boob and then when she'd get tetchy and angry, I topped her up with what I'd pumped and she'd be totally zonked - I remember the day I realised this was "THE PLAN" for her) and then DH would lift her and she'd feed like a dream for me around 11pm or midnight and he'd do all the rest. She only woke once then around 3am for a feed and was STTN by 10 weeks - my angel - don't know where she's gone now LOL!

After I would get her down, I would pump more to stimulate my breasts of course and then once I figured out the tongue tie issue I stopped bottles altogether around 7-8 weeks as I was afraid of nipple confusion or rather laziness in her case. She never had one again. But this top up kept my sanity as due to her temperament and her hunger and lack of strength/patience at the breast the evenings were otherwise horrific.

I'd do either again in a blink of an eye but Ozzie was a very comfy comfort feeder - Emma never was - it was all "nutrition or ELSE" I will scream!

S x

[<Catherine>]

Thanks ladies. He seems to be very easy going, which is great.

Last night was our first cluster feed really and it certainly seemed to help the night so will continue like that I think.

We're doing great with not feeding to sleep, and once he's sleepy I can put him in his basket awake and he'll happily drift off. But I'm totally going with his cues with regards to feeds and sleep - he'll happily stay awake for 2 hours and then want another feed, and then other times he'll feed and then sleep shortly afterwards and go for anything up to 5 hours between feeds. Should I be trying to bring some consistency in here? Should I allow him to be awake for 2 hours when he chooses to be, or try to get him to nap before then? Should I wake him if he's going too long between feeds?

[shivi]

Should I allow him to be awake for 2 hours when he chooses to be, or try to get him to nap before then? Should I wake him if he's going too long between feeds?

If it were me, I'd be trying to get that gap in at nighttime - I really believe that most healthy EBF babies can do it, just some decide to do it in the middle of the day or when mum is out and about with the older one and before you know it, they've slept 4-5 hrs in the sling/carseat or whatever. So, if it were me, I'd be trying to get as many feeds into him in daytime. Naturally, he should be whacked after clustering as its tiring and then the next feed or two should be very fatty (as they're at night) so if he'll do a 5 hr stretch, you could lead him to do it this way.

S x