2 month old refusing evening feeds!

[Pualani8]

Could a 9 week old baby be ready to stretch out a 3 hour routine?  In the late afternoon and bedtime bottles he's beginning to refuse to eat.  Like, full on screams and arches away from both breast or bottle.  If we wait about 30 mins he usually will end up eating but sometimes only 2 oz!  It just seems like he's not hungry and getting ed when we try and get him to eat!  We're on a 3 hour easy routine from 8 - 8.  He's also still waking twice in the night - we don't do a dream feed - so, he will sleep 8 - 1 or 2, then a 5 am feed, then 8 am wake up for the day.  Is that normal for 9 weeks?  Or could the refusal to eat later be causing the night wakes?

[*Ali*]

Are you feeding him formula or breast milk in the bottles?

Some babies get very overtired later in the day and have witching hours. Sometimes it is just that supply is naturally lower in the evening and they get frustrated waiting for the letdown. Do you think it could be any of those things? What is his EASY routine?

Two feeds at night is normal at this age.

Does he seem in pain? Any reflux or intolerances that you know of?

[Pualani8]

Hi Ali!  Thanks for your reply!

He's breastfed, but we supplement a little formula at the bedtime feed (1/2 breastmilk, 1/2 formula.) because my supply was a little low.  No reflux - nor have we ever had gas problems!  We've always struggled a little with our evening routine (fights late nap = overtired) but have seemed to be able to resolve it lately.  I'm just worried because he was doing 5 -7 hour stretches consistently - but seems to be back to more 4-5 hour stretches at night.  Is it because he's not getting enough calories in the day?  The problem is, I literally CAN NOT tank him up.  He will not eat if he's not hungry and he's not a comfort nurser =( 

Our typical routine:

8 - Eat
9 - Sleep (1.5 - 2 hrs)

11 ish - Eat
12:30 - Sleep (1.5 - 2 hrs)

2ish - Eat
3:30 Sleep (45 mins)

4:30 - Eat
5:45 - Sleep (30 min cat nap that he ALWAYS FIGHTS)

7:00 - bedtime routine
7:15 - Bottle
8:00 - Bedtime

Then he used to sleep until 2 or 3 - but lately has been waking more at like 12:30 - 1:30 and then usually 3 hours again until a feed.

I want to load up his calories in the day so he won't need them at night but don't know how if he won't feed!! Should I move bed time earlier? Later?  Aaaaaaargh.

Thanks!

[*Ali*]

I think it is probably just that he can't take in enough in the day to last so long at night. It is common for babies to be sleepy for the first 6weeks or so and do long stretches and then be less sleepy and wake more. As you say you cant force more food into him than he wants.

Have you tried the CN earlier? If he only sleeps 45mins for that third nap then he probably can't handle a long A time after that nap and is already OT by the time you put him down. He may already he OT for that nap if most of his earlier A times are 1.5hrs as that is quite long for his age. 1hr15-20 might suit him better if you think he is getting OT near the end of the day. And perhaps just try the CN an hour after that 45min nap and see if he is more keen.

Why don't you try the DF? Maybe a feed around 10.30 would give you a longer stretch and be less encouraging for him to wake at night in the longrun.

Otherwise it may just be a case of waiting until he is a little bit older. Honestly he is doing great for a 2mo

[Pualani8]

He's just a very alert baby! We've always struggled with the evening naps!!  Sometimes it takes 45 mintues to get him down for a 45 minute nap!!  Same with the cat nap!  And, if he sleeps much longer for the cat nap he won't go to bed at 8! 

I don't know if I should try to wean one of the night feeds?  Then hopefully he makes up the calories in the day???

[Layla]

I would do the catnap in a pram or sling. My 11 wo will also fight her catnap and she's asleep as I write this on me in a sling. I think without that nap, to stretch him to 8pm is very long and the arching back mine used to do when overtired (we also had lots of that and coming on and off the breast around 5/6 weeks which is when it peaked).

Personally I think 2 night feeds are fine at this age 

[*Ali*]

Yes I think a lot of mamas AP the CN and since ou will be dropping it eventually it doesn't really matter.

No, I definitely would not actively wean a NF at 2mo. It is completely normal for young babies who are BFed to be having a couple of night feeds for a few months yet. Breast milk is digested inside of 2hrs. You can do all you can to get him to take the max in the day and then he will drop the NFs when he is ready.

[Fiver]

Like the others have said, what you're describing is totally normal.  There are also lots of growth spurts in the early months, so it could be that the earlier NFs are down to that.

[Pualani8]

Well, it's just getting progressively worse.  He's refusing to eat now several feeds in the day.  So far today he's eaten three times, he used to eat 6 times.  It's been over 5 hours since his last feed and he completely had a meltdown when we tried to feed him and screamed for 45 mins.  We called the dr and he said it sounds like colic.  I find it hard to believe a baby develops colic at 9.5 weeks.  AND, he's refusing to feed in the day time without any hysteria.  Just simply won't eat.  On top of this, he woke up EVERY hour last night.  He's NEVER done this, even at 3 days old.  I'm at a loss =(

[*Ali*]

It certainly sounds like something is up and he is in discomfort. Have you tried meds for wind? Is he still having wet nappies?

What about massage to help the tummy pain? Massage, Colic, and recognising various cries info.

[Pualani8]

His morning diaper was not nearly as wet as it usually is.  It's hard to tell with poopy diapers - he only has one once every 5-7 days.  He woke his usual 2 x's last night - ate well and went back to sleep.  But, his morning feed which is usually his biggest, he refused.  I got him to eat about 3 mins by practically forcing it.  He's not cranky.  He was really happy - just wont eat.  I'm at a loss. 

[Fiver]

Sounds like you've hit a bit of a nursing strike on top of whatever else might be occurring.  There are loads of good tips in this FAQ (Is my baby weaning or is it a nursing strike?) to gentle coax LO back to the breast and feeding again.

[Pualani8]

Well, we just got back from the dr.  She prescribed Zantac for reflux.  I'm hoping this remedies the problem - although I'm doubtful.  He's simply refusing the breast now - but will eat sometimes of a bottle is offered.  He nurses fine at night (up to this point.) 

I've read the Nursing Strike info - unfortunately he has never comfort nursed either. 

[ZacsMumme]

Hun I've just copied my post from your other thread.
'How are his poops? - any mucus? Colour?
Have you considered reflux? Or intollerances
Reflux 101 - General reflux information
Does my LO have food intolerances?
Reflux checklist for parents and Drs
Reflux often kicks in around 6-8 weeks  I'm sorry the drs haven't been helpful.'

So now I see he has some reflux...what are your thoughts on intolerances

[Pualani8]

I'm cutting out dairy now - to see if that helps.  =(  We started the Zantac yesterday - I didn't know reflux can start this late?  I thought it happened from birth? 

Well, he's accepting food again - but only from a bottle during the day yesterday!  But, when he wakes up for night feeds he nurses fine. So, this morning when he woke for the day, I left the room dark and treated it like a night feed, and he fed fine! 

So, essentially, he will arch away from the breast and cry if I try and feed him awake - but will take a bottle 30 secs later and scarf it down because he's hungry!!!

This is giving me anxiety and totally shaken my confidence as a parent =)

Thanks for the links - I'm clicking now!