Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 6

[trimbler]

Yeah what we need is the spring clock change - worked so beautifully for DS dropping the morning nap, moving WU later so that it all fitted in nicely with the CM

[First mum]

Morning all, hope the 2-1 is going well.  I posted in another forum but didn't get a response so thought I'd try here.  My lo is 18 months now and pretty consistent with 1 nap at 11:30 for between 75-120mins.  My lo is in home based care 2 days per week and naps a max of 30 minutes.  For such a short nap she does surprisingly well but I have been doing an ebt on these days to keep on top of her ot but she is tacking on less and less making those mornings really early. This is what we look like..

Daycare
wu  6:00
nap 11:30-12
bt start bf at 5:30 asleep by 6

Home day
wu 6:00
nap 1130/11:45-1 (the 2 hour naps don't happen as often anymore, usually awake at 1pm)
bt start feeding 6-6:10 asleep by 7 (at the latest)

We are dealing with a few nw at the moment, but she is easily resettled and am sure its either teeth (7 new ones) or developmental so am not too bothered.

Since I started the ebt it has stopped the early blipping in the evening but as I mentioned the ew are now pretty consistent and was wondering if you think I should continue to do ebt or just go with normal routine and let her sort herself out?  I hope she will sleep longer at daycare but we have changed provider and the pattern seems to be the same.

TIA x

[trimbler]

Hey sorry you didn't get a response on the other board - where did you post? I can try and chase it... So what time is she waking now? Is 6am the EW or is it earlier but you get her up at 6am? My first thought would actually be to try pushing the nap a little later, but if she's actually waking at 4 or something then that might be counterproductive! I don't have long now sorry, I just thought that if her naps at home are starting to get shorter then it might be an indication that she's not so tired and perhaps she'd even start sleeping longer at daycare if she had a little more A time - what do you think, based on how she is during the day?

[First mum]

Hey Trimbler, yeah the ew is around 4-4:15.  I can generally resettle her but its usually only for about 30-45 more minutes and then it can be a bit hit and miss if she can be resettled again.  This morning she woke at 4:00 took about 5 minutes to resettle with pamol and teething gel.  Slept till 4:50 then was pretty resistant to go back to sleep.  Managed to finally nod off at 6 (just as hubby was coming to get her up) until 6:30.  Nap at 11:35 hubby said she was pretty out to it when he was putting her in her sleeping bag.  Has just woken now at 1.  We usually get her up now and have snuggles in the chair in her room and 90% of the time she will nod off again for anywhere between 15-45 minutes. 

tbh with the ew where it is now I don't see how I can push her later than 11:30 for her nap.  Some days are a real battle and she can get pretty upset around 11:15 when she wants to go down.  With her only sleeping 30 mins at daycare and knowing how tired she is with me at home prompted me to go with the ebt on daycare days.  Now I'm not sure if I just start pushing for 12pm nap and keep to the 6:30 bedtime regardless of nap length, or do I push for the later nap but keep with the ebt on daycare days???  Oh the dilemma 

[trimbler]

Oh it is tricky isn't it, and of course you're right in the 18mo SR territory... On that note, before I forget, one thing that stuck in my mind from hanging out a *lot* on the 18mo SR thread with DS, is that one by one, each of us realised that our LO's overall sleep needs had dropped and that they no longer actually needed the sleep we thought they did. That helped each of us to come up with a more realistic routine based on their actual sleep needs, however we did all struggle through for a few months hang on in there

Do you feel that the 1.5h naps at home (as opposed to previous 2h naps) are OT then, due to the EW? Or did that start before the EW started? Oh sorry DS has just returned from being out with DH and requested that I do his BT, so I'll be back later

[trimbler]

Ok sorry where was I? Oh yes, the nap timing...personally, I'd say start pushing it later despite the EW, especially if the nap started to shorten before the EWs started, but I'd still do EBT if the nap was bad, she needs to catch up the OT somewhere after all. What do you think? You know her best!

Btw we're battling EWs again, I think partly due to it being hard to get her down early enough on my working days, so she's OT, and also because she's really congested at night and coughing

[First mum]

Thanks Trimber, tbh its a bit of a blur on what came first the nap shortening or the ew.  I think it was the nap shortening??  I've thought for some time that she may need less overnight sleep.  Prior to the teeth explosion of the last 7 weeks we were getting on average 11.5 but with all the nw and ew I think we may only be getting 10-10.5.  Combined with roughly 80 minute day naps I THINK she needs more.  But as you mentioned, maybe she doesn't need as much as that anymore??  We get a bit of grizzling and she can be very clingly some days but tbh she is usually really good.

My only concern is that with her day nap 99% of the time I can apop back to sleep.  I can't do it in the cot anymore as she gets really angry with me. But if I don't speak to her, pick her up and sit in my feeding chair she will snuggle in and go back to sleep.  So with that combined I can generally get 90-120 mins.  I do think I get a bit of bedtime resistance if I let her sleep more than 90 mins so I start to wriggle a bit and then she will usually wake.  We had about 2 weeks of bringing her into our bed in the wee hours as hubby and I were wrecked from all the nw and she would snuggle down and usually go back to sleep till 6:15-6:45 so that too makes me think she still needs more but is just struggling to resettle on her own.

Hubby and I decided this weekend that no more bringing into our bed and we just need to suck it up and keep trying to resettle her in her room.  Gosh aren't the ew hideous!!

This week is pretty yuck as I have conference and my mum is looking after my LO so am thinking come Friday I need to make a conscious effort to move the nap, at least for a week and see if it affects anything.  Do you think a week is long enough?  What do you think about bringing back the 15min cn in the morning to help her through?

tia x

[trimbler]

Yeah you may be right that she needs a bit more overall than what she's getting now, but it may be less than what she used to need, of course I can't say for sure, but you know her best, you know how she is etc.

Yes I think you'll be able to review things after a week of trying the later nap, that may mean you decide to evaluate again after a further week, or push further, or try something else. Bear in mind that she may find she's more tired even after her usual nap length, when you push it later, so probably keep BT the same time rather than pushing it later to keep the same A time, iyswim? Also, I hear you on BT resistance with longer naps, personally I found DS needed 2h for some time, it just got later and then eventually shorter too, but again, your DD will be different and you know her best

As for the morning CN... Personally I never found that helpful once DS dropped it, we found EBT worked better for catching up, but I others have found it works. How long has she been on 1 nap solidly now?

As for the EWs and NWs, don't forget to give her time to settle herself before rushing in, you never know she may surprise you. And of course you can probably chalk some of it up to teething and SR, it will pass

Btw we finally had a good WU this morning, poor thing was so tired and had EBT again, woke up twice in the night needing her nose cleared and meds/teething gel, then was still asleep when DS came in at 6.30, let her have another 10mins as I was enjoying listening to her obviously dreaming

[First mum]

Oh bless that does sound like a nice morning!  My lo hasn't self settled for nap or nw since starting daycare 5 months ago  we had about 2 months of illness and then walking/teething/leaps and now regression I don't know if she even remembers how anymore.

Am gonna make a conscious effort to leave her for a solid couple of minutes with the nw and see where we get.  This is my plan for later this week.

Fri, Sat, Sun  Lunch 11:15-11:30 and nap at 11:45 (15 mins later) I'll give a bigger and later snack mid morning
Mon, Tues I'll ask her carer to push everything 15 mins
Wed Same again, but will be mindful of ot from previous 2 days
Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun Lunch 11:30-11:45 nap 12

Will keep non daycare day bt at 6:30 and daycare day 6pm

What do you think?

[trimbler]

That could work, but tbh I'm reluctant to second guess the next step after the first push, without evaluating first - I never could/can predict that sort of thing with my own, I'd always try but then they'd surprise me, so I prefer to take one step at a time When you say to ask the carer to push everything 15min, you just mean to get the same routine as you're planning over the weekend?

I'm amazed if you can get from starting lunch to being asleep in just 30mins I've had to allow a whole hour for that with both of mine, I guess they're both slowish eaters, and always need a good amount of time once they've finished to poo - I learned the hard way to let them have that time, otherwise it would happen during the nap

[First mum]

Yip I think I'll make the call midway after I see how she is.  We've already had a few late lunches and naps when other stuff is going on so think the 15 mins initially should be ok.

My lo is in the highchair at 11:00 and generally out at 11:27 and asleep 11:30  I do have to watch her as we have the occasional snooze in the highchair.  My lo poos in the afternoon, but interesting you should say that as I think we have been dealing with a few tummy upsets.  The nights are particularly bad when she goes a day without pooing.  Just this week we have upped her prune juice to try and stay on top of it for her.

Something to watch I guess.

I always worry that after lunch if I let her play she will wind up and I will never get her down 

[trimbler]

Yes I know what you mean - my DD is in the highchair just after 12 and sometimes is only just finishing her lunch around 12.40, she then gets down and potters around for 5mins or so, fills her nappy which I change, then we have 10mins or so to clear out her nose, give teething gel etc, perhaps paracetamol, wind down and settle off to sleep around 1pm. You run a tight ship

[MayaandEvasmommy]

Hi we are back .  After my wonderful spa weekend, which feels like a distant memory things seemed to be better.  Hubby manager great, both kids were still alive .  ANyway he threw all routine out the window and put her to bed later against all my better judgement and although it pains me to say it she was no different in the amount of sleep he had overall, still did 10 hrs at night 2 in day, so I guess what I have thought for a while this may be all she will do at night!.  So I took the bull by the horns and thought I would go with 1 nap, to stop all the second guessing with A times, EBT blah blah, so aimed for 11.30 nap and 7pm Bt.  We have had a brief illness inbetween but it seemed to be working well.  As long as I capped nap to 1.5hours she would do 11 hours at night, so a WU of 6am, loved our new routine.  However all good things must come to an end , and now we are back to 5am starts boo! I think we shall revert to 2 naps today see if we can push BT out a bit later again.  I still do think on average 10 hrs is ok for Eva, as she will take the extra sleep when she needs it, just need to et some consistency again.  Trouble is I love EBT but don't like EW, x

[lauraims]

Hi all. Hope you are doing well. In your experiences would you say a 1hr20 min nap is OT? Even if a resettle isnt possible? My dd is only doing the odd 2 hour nap, the last week it's been 1hr15-20.. And I know she needs more as these days she wakes in the night and EW's at 5.30...
I was doing 5.45min first A before nap...

[trimbler]

Welcome back M&E and Laura yes it could well be OT, Laura, hard to tell without more info - but probably still hard to know with it too are you moving the nap forward when she EWs, or fixing it? Does she tack on with EBT?

We're definitely in the final stages of the 2-1 now, she' struggled to get off for the UT morning nap recently so have had a couple of days where we've had to play around with A times after a non-nap. Hard not to offer it at all just yet  hoping to muddle through until Christmas holidays and then shift WU a bit later and drop the morning nap completely - could do that now but then when we need a two nap day to catch up the second nap wouldn't work with school collection...so as I said, we'll muddle through and play hunt the A in preparation for dropping it completely. Thankfully they've both been good at napping with the CM so she should hopefully nap ok there.