Author Topic: Dropping dream feed causes night waking? (Read 5931 times)

BeeAnn · « **on:** July 02, 2013, 09:30:37 am »

DD is 6 and a half months old and has been on solids for about a month now. Currently eating 3 meals of about 2oz each plus a fromage frais at lunchtime. She was on 5 x 200ml bottles of formula (including DF) and wasn't showing many signs of leaving milk at any feedings (except for a couple of times when she left an oz or so). However, she was gaining weight above her percentile and moved from the 75th to between the 75th and 91st percentile.

So we started trying to wean the DF. We got down to about 100ml at the DF at 10pm instead of 200ml at 10.45pm. Then last night we dropped it completely and she woke up at around 4.20am hitting the side of the bed. I moved her and she seemed quite awake, sitting up in the cot and crawling around a bit. I did PU / PD once and she seemed to settle a bit more and eventually put herself back to sleep after about 45 mins. She wasn't upset, just awake. This morning she was really grumpy and seemed tired!!

She has STTN from 7pm to about 7am with a DF since she was about 12 weeks old. Although recently she has been waking a little earlier - any time between 6 and 7 (thinking about it not sure whether the earlier waking coincided with us reducing and moving the DF!)

She is usually on a good EASY with 2 long naps in the day of about 2 hours each which she needs, especially if she wakes before 7am. (we dropped the cat nap a few weeks ago)

I know that it has only been one night but wanted to get people's ideas on this, and whether it could be that she is hungry even though she wasn't crying or if it could maybe just be that her body is used to waking up a certain number of hours after her last feed / the last time she was disturbed. Should we persevere with no dream feed?! Is it usual to get a night waking after dropping the dream feed?!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2013, 14:29:30 pm »

Hi there!

From your description it sounds like it might be more developmental than hunger. I would see how she does tonight before deciding whether or not it has to do with dropping the df. During the day, if she's draining the 200 ml, I would add another oz to the bottle so that there is a very small amount left over. That way you can be assured that she's getting enough during the day.

To tackle the developmental stuff, just make sure she has lots of time to practice during the day and this will pass as she masters her new skills.

BeeAnn · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2013, 15:42:33 pm »

Thanks for your response. We are sticking with no DF for now. And she is having an EBT tonight cos she did a shortish nap so fingers crossed she does not wake again!!

She has been sitting and crawling for a few weeks now and last night was the first night that we noticed a disruption in sleep, so seems a bit too much of a coincidence for it not to be DF related. She basically spends the whole day on the floor so plenty of time crawling and sitting!! Anyway will keep you posted.

She did leave a tiny bit of two out of three of her bottles today so I guess she is getting enough with them plus the solids.

PaulsMom · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2013, 19:30:32 pm »

Fx things go well tonight. Keep us posted n how things go.

BeeAnn · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2013, 17:00:08 pm »

Just thought I would give a quick update. The good news is that we didnt give a dream feed last night. The bad news is that we seem to have picked the worst time to wean the DF as DD has come out with a temperature and cold which meant she was up very two hours last night, with me wondering if we were starving her!! We nearly caved and fed her at 11 when she woke but by the time we had made a bottle she had nearly settled herself back to sleep.

Am not expecting a good night as her temp is still high and she has been screaming on and off all day but we will see what happens when the cold passes!

Not sure why she woke two nights ago still though!!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2013, 01:09:58 am »

Oh, poor LO! it's hard when they are sick! If she has a high fever, you might want to consider feeding her or giving her water. I know you want to drop the DF and it's not good to send mixed messages but she may need some extra fluids when she's sick. FX that she gets better soon.

BeeAnn · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2013, 13:04:43 pm »

Quick update. Her fever went on the second night but we had a third night of disrupted sleep last night - lots of screaming, we thought due to her blocked nose. But I just noticed that her first tooth has decided to make an appearance (wasn't there yesterday).

Do you know how many nights of disruption we might expect on average? Having said that I do think she had a proper cold as I am now feeling poorly! So not sure what is due to what now!

We are still doing no dream feed but she has started refusing solids probably cos of her teeth so I hope she gets enough food!

She seems pretty tired so out her down early for her afternoon nap and I am hoping things get sorted soon!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2013, 15:02:36 pm »

So glad the fever is gone. Boo for the teething... But they all go through it. I've found that teething will vary from tooth to tooth and from child to child. The first ones can be rough. If you can see the bump, the whiteness of the tooth through the gum, then the cutting can take anywhere from 1 day to 3 days. My DS cut teeth really fast whereas my dd takes ages and ages! I think in Tracy's book, she mentions 3 days for moving up to the gum, 3 days for cutting and 3 days for the tooth moving up into place. Some babies are def off food when they are teething. They can also get a runny nose from it (especially if its the top teeth) and sometimes a slight fever.

If you are not opposed to it and have it ok'd by your dr, you can give her pain meds at nap time and bt. Also, I've heard that some moms give frozen teethers, wash cloths, even frozen food (bagels, blueberries that are squashed, etc).

BeeAnn · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2013, 18:04:51 pm »

The tooth has definitely popped through the gum either overnight or tonight - we can see it and it feels sharp to touch. So hopefully it will be over in a few days (till the next one!) She didn't seem interested in the cold cloth I gave her, or her cold teether - although everything else goes in her mouth! I did give her cold apple puree and baby rice for dinner, with a yogurt for dessert and she ate that. May stick to colder foods for a day or so.

We have given her some nurofen and have our fingers crossed now!! She did have 2 good naps of just over 2 hours today so has hopefully caught up on a bit of sleep.

The topics of this thread have changed so much since my original posting - we definitely picked a bad time to lose the dream feed! Although she hasn't really needed it (I don't think - it's hard to tell!) I wonder whether it was the early stages of teething or her cold that caused her to wake that first night. Guess we'll never know!

Thanks for being a sounding board though!!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2013, 02:35:19 am »

If the tooth has cut, things should improve in my experience. Fx. Keep us posted on how thing go!

BeeAnn · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2013, 08:45:58 am »

Last night was much better thanks. She slept through without any wakings until she got up at 5.10am and wouldn't resettle. Not too sure why she woke up that early but I'll take it for now given the last few days!!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2013, 11:07:35 am »

Hmmmm.. How much day time sleep is she getting? Sometimes ew is due to that. I take it, you fed her and she was jutst up for the day?

BeeAnn · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2013, 14:46:17 pm »

At the moment she is getting about 4 hours of day sleep a day. We got rid of the cat nap about three weeks ago when she started to be able to manage 2 hrs 45 mins awake time.

Ideally I would like her to have 3 or 3.5 hours of day sleep in a day but the problem is that even on an ok day she usually wakes up at around 6 or half 6 which means that with 3 hours A time she needs to have 2 x 2hr ish naps to go to bed at around 6.30 or 7.

Sometimes if she wakes up a little later then I shorten the second nap a little. I also find that she can't quite manage 3 hours A time before bed, if we need to do it then we do and she will usually fall asleep at her bottle.

If she wakes up earlier (like today) then we usually leave her in her cot till about 6 and then do the first nap at 9 which means that on two long naps she can get through to bedtime.

Having said that she did nap about 4.5 hours yesterday as she was really tired and couldn't manage 3 hours A time in the middle of the day - possibly because of the night wakings?

I am scared to put her to bed earlier than half six in case she wakes up even earlier so don't quite know how to make it work with a 13 hour day usually.

She used to consistently sleep till 7 when we woke her up but then her mornings started getting more random which is why we took away the cat nap, but they are still quite random. Usually just after 6 but sometimes earlier than that.

Any thoughts?

BeeAnn · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:19:52 am »

She woke up at 5.30 this morning.... Am wondering if she is too tired at BT because she is usually asleep when she finishes her bottle. Is that likely to cause EW or if I bring BT forward do you think she will just wake earlier?

Today her routine will be different due to swimming class so she is generally awake less time before BT (only 2.5 hours) so may see if that makes a difference.

I know this is now not about NW's. should I post in the general sleep board?

PaulsMom · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2013, 17:20:02 pm »

Hi, sorry for not getting back to you. Ew's could be due to the first nap being too early in the day. Could you post your full routine? You can keep your post here or start a new one, up to you.

She's on the high end of DT sleep. Not necessarily a bad thing but it could be a cause of the ew.... But then so can other things like teeth, hunger, etc. when dropping the CN, it might be a good idea to bring bt forward. For a lot of babies, an early bt will give them more nt sleep but I have heard of some babies where an early bt means an ew. I think the only way to find out is to give it a try.

BeeAnn · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2013, 20:14:07 pm »

Her routine if she wakes up early (like the last few days) is generally:

WU too early!! (5.15ish)
GU and E (milk) 6am
E (solids) 7.30am
S 9am - 11am
E (milk) 11am
E (solids) 12.30pm
S 2pm - 3.20pm
E (milk) 3.30pm
E (solids) 5pm
E (milk) and BT 6.30pm (falls asleep at the bottle)

If she is awake later then I will either give her less A time before bed and / or slightly cap one or other of the naps. An ideal bedtime would be 7pm for us.

She either naps for 1hr 20mins (which I think is under tired?) or I have to wake her - usually I don't let her go more than 2hrs 15 mins. I have shown a short nap in the afternoon in the routine above but it sometimes happens in the morning if she is showing sleepy signs and I go against my better judgement and put her down slightly early!! Some days she will have two long naps and bedtime is a bit later.

To be honest her days do vary more than they were doing before we dropped the cat nap!! (or maybe I have rose tinted memories....)

I don't think she could go longer before her first nap....

She's woken up crying twice already since bedtime, the second time quite hysterically so we gave her some Nurofen. I think her teeth must still be bothering her, I did wonder today if I could see the white of a second tooth (although it could just be another side of the first tooth still coming through!) FX for the rest of the night!!

BeeAnn · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2013, 20:37:50 pm »

Meant to say that she is 7 months in a week's time

PaulsMom · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2013, 20:56:19 pm »

Yes, you can't really push that am nap out any more. Is she going back to sleep between 5:15 and 6 am? If she's not sleeping then that's a really long A! but she's giving you a good long nap.

Quote from: BeeAnn on July 07, 2013, 20:14:07 pm

She either naps for 1hr 20mins (which I think is under tired?)

I don't stress too much about naps of 1 hr 15 and longer. I suppose it may be a bit under tired but really I think you would just be pushing the A out by another 10 min. It's when the naps are under 35 min that I start to worry that it's not enough (unless it's a CN and you have a short A until BT).

If she's teething then this could be the cause of the EW. If any pain meds were given at BT, they likely have worn off. Further we tend to sleep lighter in the morning so discomfort and other "day time" noises (birds singing, more traffic, etc) will disturb sleep so she might be waking and then with all of the "morning cues", she's just up for the day. You could try giving her another dose of Nurofen and see if she will go back down. (Make sure you have good black outs and white noise on if possible).

BeeAnn · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2013, 09:21:20 am »

Thanks. I do think that it could be a combination of noise / teething waking her early. This morning she was definitely asleep at 5.25am and then 10 minutes later I heard quite a loud car outside and shortly afterwards heard her awake. I went in and tried to give her bonjela and she did seem a little calmer than normal but didn't go back to sleep (she is normally not upset but kind of just rolls around and crawls up and down the bed).

She doesn't really go back to sleep before 6am but I have found that if I don't get her up and she is still in the dark (we do have black outs) then she can manage a more or less full A time from the time I get her out of bed.

It could also be partly developmental I guess. She started crawling and sitting about a month ago, and we have noticed that she is trying to climb up things (i.e. us!) more. But probably more likely to be teeth.

Her teeth were definitely hurting her last night before we gave her ibuprofen, and I think I can feel a second one trying to come through.

I think we will just have to see what happens in a week or so (well hopefully till her teeth stop troubling her) and then if it doesn't get better think about the routine again.

PaulsMom · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2013, 01:56:47 am »

boo to the loud car! Well at least she does well on her own in her crib until you get her and she can handle a full A. That's a really good thing!

Teething is such a hard thing to deal with. Poor bub! let us know how things go over the course of the week. Hopefully the EW's go away!

BeeAnn · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2013, 11:27:29 am »

Just thought I would give you an update. After Thursday morning last week when she woke up at 5am and wouldn't settle, I decided that we would bring back half a bottle at the dream feed in case she was waking hungry. Since we have done that she has slept through till about 6.20am most days - which is just over 11 hours sleep. She also seems much happier and more energetic in the mornings so I think she was thinking that she was hungry and therefore it was morning time.

We have also increased her amount of solids slightly and she has now started taking less at her 11.30am and 4pm bottles so perhaps she is more ready to drop that dream feed now. However, we are going on holiday on Friday for a week so will probably leave it until after that - or else do a very slow weaning process. Last time we reduced to half a bottle and then dropped it straightaway so not sure if that was too quick for her.

So seems as though my very original topic was kind of right after all!!

PaulsMom · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2013, 15:01:00 pm »

Oh good. Glad things are working out. Yes, don't change too much when on vacation if possible. You can try a gradual weaning when you return either by reducing the volume gradually over a week or so or you can start to bring the feed time earlier and earlier.

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Author Topic: Dropping dream feed causes night waking? (Read 5931 times)