4 month old night feeds getting earlier

[LovelyLilyandJack]

The last few weeks my 4 month old has been waking for a feed earlier in the night and we're now on the verge of going back to 2 nf plus a dream feed.  He was consistently making it to 3.30 before waking,  then he pushed it back to 4/5 or even 5.30 and then slept til 7/7.30. But now he wakes at 2.30 / 2.45 most nights and then again at 6.15 ish for the day.  I leave him til he's properly crying and if I try to sshh him he just gets worked up (though admittedly I haven't given this great efforts yet). He always takes a good feed,,  goes back down awake and self settles.  He doesn't wake any other time in the night.

Is this normal at this age?  My daughter was sttn by now so I have no experience of this. It's not a growth spurt cos it's been going on for a while and he had one only about 2 - 3 weeks ago. He's on a 4 hour EASY and has a df at 10.30.  Is there anything else I can do to encourage a longer stretch at night again?

[goldmom]

Good luck, I'm going through something similar!

We were feeding between 2:30-3:30, and then she moved it to between 1:30-2:30. Generally either way she sleeps till morning after that, but I'm not sure why she's not stretching till later in the night for her feed. I try hard to keep it at DF plus 1 NF, and all other NW are just resettled (I try to feed only if she wakes up after 1 AM and not before). I rarely have any NW between 3:30-6:15 anymore (occassionally I would get an early WU at 5:30 which I was able to resettle)

4 months is a huge growth spurt and everything changes, so good luck! I'm also watching this post.

[katie80]

Is this normal at this age?  My daughter was sttn by now so I have no experience of this. It's not a growth spurt cos it's been going on for a while and he had one only about 2 - 3 weeks ago. He's on a 4 hour EASY and has a df at 10.30.  Is there anything else I can do to encourage a longer stretch at night again?

Yes, it's very normal and it could be another growth spurt.  Some LOs have one at both 3 and 4mo.  It's also a time when LOs are more distractable feeders during the day and make up for it a bit at night (I think often more noticeable in a second or third child because there's naturally more activity around). If that's the only time he wakes and takes a good feed, I'm guessing that's the reason he's waking.  Is he BF or FF?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yes,  I think it's probably hunger but wonder if he's waking at that time and is a bit munchy rather than hunger waking him iykwim?! I think he maybe does it more when he feeds more often than 4 hourly cos when he's been snacking I'm sure he's woken earlier.  The trouble is that one rubbish nap and we're off the 4 hourly feeds.  What you said about him getting distracted makes sense too cos the reason I moved to 4 hr feeds is cos he wasn't taking much at 3 hours cos he's so nosy!  Having said that, he always feeds til he refuses to go back on so I always assumed that meant he was full.  Maybe he's only just full enough to find peering about more interesting?!

He's bf but has formula at the dream feed and every other night at bedtime but I've not seen a link between what he has at bt and how long he sleeps.

Sorry to hear you're going through the same thing,  goldmom. Having a time you won't feed before sounds like a good plan. I think I'lltry tthat or we could easily be back to 2 nf and I can handle 1 but anything more than that wipes me out!

[katie80]

It's hard to know with distractibility. I do know that not all EBF babies make a full 4hr EASY until they're a bit older and started on solids (around 6mo), so that may be something to watch for too, to make sure he's not making up for calories in the night.  You can always offer a top up feed an hr after the initial one to make sure he's not waking from naps hungry and is getting enough.  You can also do a combination of 3.5-4hr feeds too, it's not a strict schedule.

I guess I'd give it a few days to a week and if he's still waking frequently and you can start to rule out hunger, then start putting a limit on when you'll feed him and be diligent in resettling him before that time.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yes, it seems like he can do 4 hourly in the morning if he's asleep but normally only 3 hourly at the end of the day.  I try to follow his cues without letting him go more than 4 hours ish but have to manage it a bit in the late afternoon to make sure he takes a good feed at bedtime.  So if he feeds at 2.30 he won't last til 6.30 so I give a snack at 4 ish to tide him over if feeds work out that way. I might go back to 3.5 hour feeds if he doesn't sleep past that point though,  thanks.

I've tried doing top ups before and it seems to lead to a day of snacking which doesn't affect naps but I think does make him wake earlier at night. Not sure - maybe I'll pay more attention next time!

I think you're right that I should give it a week.  So many things are just a phase! I just like seeing some progress to sttn , it unnerves me when things seem to be going backwards!

[katie80]

I just like seeing some progress to sttn , it unnerves me when things seem to be going backwards!

Yes, I totally get that!  It sounds like you've got a really good feel for what he needs and can do.  You'll get there, I promise!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Just a quick update on this....  I think you were right about 4 hourly feeds being too much for him cos it's been very hot here the last few days and I think he's been teething cos he's wanted lots of slightly smaller feeds throughout the day, roughly every 3 - 3.5 hours.  He takes a bit less at bedtime on those sorts of days but has had night feeds at 4 and 5am the last 2 nights so I think maybe it does suit him better.  So I think I need to aim for something in between snacking and 4 hourly feeds - probably roughly 3.5 hours as you suggested!  It just helps us get an extra small feed in late afternoon which does take away from his BT feed but seems to get more calories into him overall perhaps?

One last question - if he sleeps past the 3.5 hour mark, should I wake him (providing he's had at least 1.5 hours sleep) or let him go til 4 hours as a one off?  He goes through phases of doing 2 x 2hr naps which kind of forces 4 hourly feeds so not sure if I should let him or not?

[katie80]

It just helps us get an extra small feed in late afternoon which does take away from his BT feed but seems to get more calories into him overall perhaps?

Probably... I know several moms on here have kept a natural cluster feed like that until solids are established and it has helped their LOs sleep better.

One last question - if he sleeps past the 3.5 hour mark, should I wake him (providing he's had at least 1.5 hours sleep) or let him go til 4 hours as a one off?  He goes through phases of doing 2 x 2hr naps which kind of forces 4 hourly feeds so not sure if I should let him or not?

Yeah, I would let him sleep.  You could still offer a cluster feed during the last A time if you want or just go with the 4hr EASY.  If you notice a pattern in that he starts to wake more frequently on the days he goes longer between eating, then I might think about waking him.  But, he's probably just in between the point of being able to do a full 4hr EASY and a combination.

Hope you continue to make progress!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thanks!  Turns out those 2 nights were a fluke and we're back to 2 nfs again BUT I've been suspecting for a while that the df is interfering with his sleep and a nw at 9.30pm meant we skipped it the other day and he went til 5am just on a bt feed!  So last night we ditched it.  He still woke at 10.30 but resettled without me doing anything (he was just moaning really) and he woke for a feed at 2.20 and 5.30. So still 2 nfs but without the df.

Dropping the df doesn't help me cos I do the nfs and my OH does the df but I'd prefer him to get used to eating more in the day rathertthan at a feed which doesn't do anything so we're skipping it tonight as well to see what happens.  At least then I'll know if he's genuinely lengthening or shortening time between feeds and not wondering if the df is making him wake more.

I can't believe I'm considering dropping the df though.  It was my best friend with my daughter!

[katie80]

I can't believe I'm considering dropping the df though.  It was my best friend with my daughter!

Yes, it's great when it works, but it just doesn't work for all of them. One of many things you'll find in how different your two LOs can be!

Hopefully after a couple more days, he won't be waking at the 9:30-10:30hr anymore. I also wondered if you tried to resettle him at 5:30am, if he'd go back until 6:30 or so. It may be easier to just give a small feed then, as it can be a hard time of morning to resettle and since you're up anyway, but might be something to consider as well.

Keep me posted...

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thanks.  Last night he woke at 10 again but easily resettled without me intervening again.  I half wonder if the evening waking may be ot related as well cos we're getting terrible naps at the moment. Got a thread open on the EASY board about that.  Anyway, after waking and resettling at 10 he then woke properly at 11.30. I didn't try to resettle cos we're at my mum's and she's working tomorrow and I didn't want to wake her.  We gave him a bottle, he finished it all (7ozs) then slept til 4.30 when I fed again,  and up for the day at 6.30. I might try getting more daytime feeds in today if I can cos he doesn't seem to be replacing the missed df, though it's hard to tell with breastfeeding.  It seems like he's just taking a bigger nf though.

Funnily enough I didn't think of resettling at 5.30 the other night.  Might try that at home if feeds are that close together.  I actually assumed he woke early cos he was ot and fed to sleep in bed just as a way of APing more sleep!   We can't do it at home cos our room is too light so just did it here as a one off. 

[katie80]

Last night he woke at 10 again but easily resettled without me intervening again.  I half wonder if the evening waking may be ot related as well cos we're getting terrible naps at the moment. Got a thread open on the EASY board about that. 

That sure could be.

Anyway, after waking and resettling at 10 he then woke properly at 11.30. I didn't try to resettle cos we're at my mum's and she's working tomorrow and I didn't want to wake her.  We gave him a bottle, he finished it all (7ozs) then slept til 4.30 when I fed again,  and up for the day at 6.30. I might try getting more daytime feeds in today if I can cos he doesn't seem to be replacing the missed df, though it's hard to tell with breastfeeding.  It seems like he's just taking a bigger nf though.

Honestly, this sounds really normal for his age. Hopefully, one of them will start pushing out in the next few weeks and then you'll only have the one NF for awhile.

I actually assumed he woke early cos he was ot and fed to sleep in bed just as a way of APing more sleep!   We can't do it at home cos our room is too light so just did it here as a one off. 

Yes, and truthfully, if it's close to 4hr I always just went ahead and fed, since I was up anyway.  It's more when you stat to think it might be a habit that you should probably work harder at resettling.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thanks.  That makes me feel better about not making serious efforts to resettle yet!  Hoping we'll be back to one nf soon. I guess it's a bit of a funny age now until solids are established which I just have to wait out.  I don't mind feeding if he needs it,  it's the other nw's which I don't like! 

[katie80]

I guess it's a bit of a funny age now until solids are established which I just have to wait out.  I don't mind feeding if he needs it,  it's the other nw's which I don't like! 

I agree with all of the above!