Author Topic: 8 month old continual night wakings  (Read 3256 times)

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Offline ChocolateyClaire

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8 month old continual night wakings
« on: July 18, 2013, 09:37:27 am »
My LO is continuously crying out during the night and I'm really not sure what to do. She has never been a good sleeper and has barely ever slept though but these night wakings just keep on and on and during this hot weather it's getting even worse!

Her bedtime routine is exactly the same every day and we put her down after giving her her milk and without a dummy. When she cries out we always leave her in the hope that she will self settle and sometimes she does but the later on in the night it gets the less she is able to do this and the crying escalates. The only way she'll go back to sleep is if we give her a dummy. This is so frustrating because she doesn't need it to initially get to sleep and for some of the night wakings. It's not teething because it's been going on for weeks now (some teeth have appeared in this time but the NW's haven't changed), she's not hungry as we've tried to address that too. We've also tried and earlier bedtime and this made no difference.

I just don't know why she keeps doing it as she's clearly tired. She's just started crawling and standing in her cot whilst holding onto the side which is compounding the sleep issues as if she cries for a while she properly wakes up and then decides to explore all around her cot!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 15:00:39 pm »
Hug for the nw's.

It sounds like she does need the paci to self soothe.  If you don't mind her using the paci, then you could try putting a bunch of pacis in her crib so she can find them and use them herself.  She may need to be taught to find them though. 

If you don't want her to use them, then you should wean her and help her self settle using another method. 

Developmental milestones will also cause sleep issues but these usually resolve once she has mastered the skill.  I would recommend that you give her lots of opportunity to practice during her A time.

Lastly, could you post your routine in the following format:
Wake up 7:00
E 7:05
A
S 10:15

Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 18:30:25 pm »
She does have a dummy on occasions and is learning to put it back in but sometimes I think she chooses to cry rather than settle herself using dummy as we'll go into her and she'll be holding the dummy and putting it in then taking it out!

Our routine is as follows:

Wake up - 5.30/5.45
E - 7.15 bottle / 8.00 solids
A -
S - 9 ish

Wake up - 10.45 ish
E - 12.30 solids for lunch
A -
S - 2 ish

Wake up - 3.15 ish
E - 3.30 bottle
A -
E - 5.00 solids / 6.30 bottle
S - 6.45 ish

She hates her bottles and always fights them meaning she is taking well under the recommended formula intake. We offer her water throughout the day and she has balanced meals.

Her nap lengths can vary but generally she stays up for about 3 - 3.15hrs. I have tried putting her down earlier but that then means her post lunch nap is so early that she needs another small nap before bedtime and she ALWAYS refuses this. When she refuses she's a nightmare until bedtime. If we put her to bed earlier she wakes up earlier!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 02:43:05 am »
Her routine looks pretty good so I wouldn't change anything.  Does she have any other comfort items? 

If she is just crying out (ie. Really brief cry), then I agree with leaving her to see if she ss, but do go to her if her cries escalates.  Do you think she has any seperation anxiety?  This may explain why she wants you to come in.

Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 09:12:56 am »
She has a rabbit that she hugs at night time.

There may be a small amount of separation anxiety but she would still cry if we sat in the room with her to calm her down! It's so frustrating because we hear the small beginnings of a cry that sound all sleepy and we don't go in but it's as if she wakes herself up with her crying and then it will just escalate. The longer we leave it the longer it seems to take for her to settle as the crying will mean she's fully awake! We've had about 5 weeks of this and I'm really hoping it's a phase!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 11:53:33 am »
This should be a phase.  What's important is how you handle the nws so not to intorduce any props that will continue the problem.  What type of cry is it?  At night is it you to go to her or does your DH go as well? 

I might ask for some extra eyes for this one as your routine looks fine.  She's getting good DT sleep and other than formula, she's eating fine.  Will be back.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 11:58:53 am by PaulsMom »

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2013, 18:03:22 pm »
Hi there, I'm sorry you're having such a tough time with NWs - (((hugs))).  Just popping on to lend a hand.

I just wonder if you could clarify a bit about the crying and how you respond as it might affect how we can best advise you :). So initially she wakes and does a sleepy cry, which then escalates - at what point do you intervene?  Do you wait a certain amount of time, or go in as soon as the cry becomes more urgent, or something else?

How many times does she actually wake at night and what times do they tend to happen?  That might help us to work out what the issue might be.  E.g. Wakings in the early part of the evening are often related to OT.

I'm interested that she hates her bottles and always fights them - that's often a sign that there is discomfort associated with feeding which can have a big impact on sleep.  Does she have reflux, allergies or intolerances?

Could you describe exactly what happens at BT when you put her down?  So starting with her bottle - does she get very drowsy or fall asleep while drinking?  Is there anything in the routine between bottle and going into the cot e.g. a story?  When she goes into the cot is she fully awake ie alert, looking around, perhaps chatting/babbling?  Or is she tired/drowsy ie starting to get a bit relaxed/floppy, eyelids drooping?  Do you rub her back, shh pat or similar once she is in the cot?  At what point do you leave the room?

Sorry so many questions, I really hope we can help you get this figured out :)



Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 09:22:43 am »
Thank you so much for trying to help me out! It's getting worse now with her up 5-7 times the past 2 nights!

Her cry varies, sometimes it starts off fairly quiet and more of a grumble and then you can tell she's become more awake and the cries become louder. It sounds more like a shout sometimes rather than a cry of pain, like she's woke up and doesn't know what to do. Myself and my OH take it in turns to go in and we usually wait about 5 mins, any longer and she is shouting/crying so loud she'd wake the street!

She goes down at around 6.45-7, sometimes straight away, usually after 20 mins or so of shouting/crying. We usually wait about 10 mins before going in which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't! A lot of the times when we do go in she's moved around in her cot and is wedged with her cuddly toys at the top. She then usually sleeps well until 11pm ish when the first cry will happen then last night she woke again at midnight, 12.40, 3.15 and 5.15. She was awake on and off then until 6.15 when she properly cried out. She's just learnt to crawl and all we can hear is her moving around the cot and banging her legs against the bars - this then keeps us awake too!

As for her bottles,  she had colic when she was younger but she hasn't been diagnosed with any other allergies/probs. I've mentioned the bottle issue to the health visitor and she doesn't seem to bothered and says maybe she just doesn't like milk.

At bedtime myself and my OH will bath her together which used to go well but because she's sleeping so bad at night she's been getting increasingly grumpy. We then alternate each day who takes her upstairs and gets her ready whilst the other prepares the bottle. We then both sit on the floor with her in her room with chilled out music on and play with her music box and read her some books. She's never chilled at this point and just squirms and wants to crawl around or sometimes just grizzle. The books do grab her attention though. Once we finished reading and put her in her grow bag she really kicks off screaming. One of us will then sit with her with the lights low/off and give her her bottle. Sometimes she's relaxed but rearely does she fall asleep now, she did used to though.  Nowadays she wriggles, squirms, cries and is just generally not happy! We do persevere though and sometimes she will calm down and drink the milk OK. We then lay her down with some chilled music playing, she's never asleep and sometimes doesn't even appear drowsy even though she's been yawning a bit earlier. We would then kiss her goodnight and leave the room. Sometimes she nods off but a lot of the time she will start crying, as I said earlier.  If we stayed and shh, patted her she would just get more stressed as she can see us. A dummy soothes her, which we use during the night, but I don't want to get into this habit at bedtime too!

She is just so hyper and moves around constantly - I'm not sure how much more sleep deprivation we can all cope with!!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 02:37:01 am »
Wrt crying, I would try to go in as soon as it escalates as its unlikely that she will self settle rather than waiting a set time.  Also, once her crying has escalated, calming her down will be more difficult.

What activities are you doing during the day.  My DS was super busy and would only sleep well if he was physically tired so I would minimize the time spent in the exersaucer and maximize crawling time.  This also helps them perfect their skills so they are less likely to practice at night.

At this age, frequent nw's can be use to discomfort.  What foods is she getting?  Is she constipated at all?

Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2013, 09:04:24 am »
She's getting a variety of foods from cheese, avocado, pasta, meat, fish, lots of fruit etc as well as a bit of puree. She has been going through phases of being constipated but she's not too bad now.

Last night she screamed blue murder at bedtime for an hour and I ended up giving her the dummy and she went straight to sleep. She never used to be so dependant on it. I tried calming her down but she just kicked and screamed and got hotter and hotter on an already v warm night! She then woke at 11, 12, 3 and 5, each time needing the dummy to go back to sleep. She cried out other times but managed to self settle without the dummy. I swear she would just cry all night if she didn't have our attention / the dummy.

Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 09:09:37 am »
....sorry, forgot to mention her activities. She gets to crawl around our v small lounge during the day and go in the jumperoo. We also go to the park now the weather is nice so she gets to crawl a lot then as well.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2013, 11:21:33 am »
I think you need to think about either teaching her to replug herself or getting rid of the dummy  :-\. It sounds like even if it wasn't an issue before, it is now.  At her age she should be able to learn to replug fairly quickly, then you can just scatter a few pacis in her crib so she can easily find one.  Or we'll be very happy to support you if you want to get rid of them altogether :)

I do wonder though about the crying....I may have misinterpreted what you've written (and I'm really sorry if that's the case) but there seem to be some quite long periods of time when she is really crying/escalating/screaming and you aren't going to her straight away?  If that's the case, that's a form of CIO and we can't support or condone that in any way here at BW.  We would always recommend that you respond straight away to an 'I need you' cry so that LO trusts you will always be there if she needs you.

If she has cried alone for some periods of time it may be that trust issues/separation anxiety are also contributing to your problems at the moment.  This link has some helpful advice: Regaining Trust of Your Child

I can completely understand shh pat not working at this age, it's really too much intervention at this point.  PUPD is a really good tool (though cant be used with a paci unless she can replug herself) or we can also help you with some alternatives e.g. sitting quietly on the floor next to her crib while she goes to sleep, then working on gradual withdrawal to leave the room.

What do you think?

Offline ChocolateyClaire

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2013, 13:30:41 pm »
We don't leave her for long periods crying, the maximum amount of time is about 5 mins and we would always go in when her cries escalate - they tend to escalate v quickly.

It's very frustrating with her dummy as she can replug herself as I've seen her do it a lot of times. When we go into her she will sometimes be holding the dummy and crying even though she's put it back in before! The crawling doesn't help either as sometimes the dummy will drop out.

I would like to lose the dummy altogether as I know it's a prop, it's just so hard as she is a very vocal / loud baby with huge amounts of determination! I use the dummy for her naps all the time, the only time I don't use it (well try not to!) is when we initially put her to bed. I would like help in losing the dummy and also advise on PUPD method as when I have tried this the crying and kicking only escalates and she won't calm down. It doesn't help with the hot weather we are having at the moment either as holding her only makes her hotter. We've tried sitting next to her cot, but she just gets really annoyed that we're there and not doing anything!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 02:51:13 am »
I think for the time being, try to go to her quickly when she cries.  If she has some SA, leaving her crying even for a minute can really create a lot of issues.  She needs extra reassurance that you or OH will come quickly when she cries.

I had to wean my DS from his paci when he was around 7 mo old.  I did it cold turkey but I also introduced an alternate comfort item so he could self soothe.  Her bunny may do the trick.  I made sure that my DS had his lovies next to him at bt and stayed with him when we weaned him. 

Wrt PU/PD, with my DS, I found that he did better if I rested my hands on him (chest and legs).  He was so busy that it was hard for him to slow down and fall asleep.  The resting hands helped him relax and fall asleep. 

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 8 month old continual night wakings
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 08:14:56 am »
I agree on the comfort item, DD has a giraffe blankie which she LOVES and can cure all problems! :)

When you are ready I think a modified version of PUPD would be the way to go, focussing on minimal picking up i.e. only if completely distraught.  It sounds like she will respond to a more hands-off approach better.  PaulsMom's suggestion of hands on chest and legs is a good one, but if even that is too much for her I would try either just holding her hand through the bars of the crib, or just sitting next to the crib and occasionally saying a sleep phrase in a very boring voice.  She will be angry, upset, annoyed - that's to be expected because you are asking her to go to sleep in a different way from how she knows.  In BWSAYP Tracy actually recommends getting yourself some ear plugs to lessen the noise (not to ignore LO) so you have a better chance of remaining calm and seeing it through. 

The other thing I wonder is if she might need a bit of a routine adjustment, actually.  I looked again at what you posted, and at this age we were usually doing a 1h30ish am nap and 45 mins or so in the pm.  I wonder if she could be having a bit too much daytime sleep - do you have a sense of whether she is low or high sleep needs?  The alternative is that she is actually OT on that routine.....she has a long day - DD couldn't ever handle a 13h day without getting OT and our naps above were on a 12h day.  Have you ever tried an earlier BT, say 6pm?