Help needed with 10.5 month old 2nd nap

[pareeta]

Hi Everyone,

I need help with my LO's 2nd nap.  We've been having issues since she turned 8.5 months old.  She takes her am nap (1.5 hours), but she refuses her 2nd nap. I tried shortening her am nap to an hour but she still refuses the 2nd nap.  She's exhausted.  Should i shorten it to 45 min?  Any help is appreciated.  Poor thing is so tired, and I just want to help her.  Here's her schedule:

5am - 6:30am: Awake
7:00 : bottle
8:00 : breakfast
8:30 : in crib
8:30 - 9:00: asleep
10:00 - 10:30: awake (depending on what time she fell asleep, but usually takes 1.5 hour nap)
10:30: bottle
12:00: lunch
12:30: in crib (doesn't fall asleep until 2:30 or doesn't sleep at all)
2:30: asleep or doesn't fall asleep
3:00: bottle
4:30: dinner
5:30: in crib/asleep if she didn't take her afternoon nap

[Layla]

Big ((hugs)))

Yes, I suspect she is fighting her pm nap due to long am nap (very common at this age)... this is all leading up to the 2-1 nap transition, which can start as early as 9 months.

If you have already tried to cut the morning nap down to 1 hr, then the next thing would be to cut to 45mins (you're spot on there!) and offer the pm nap around 3 hrs later.

So for your LO, I would try something like this:
6am - wake
9-9:45am - morning nap
1-2.30pm - pm nap
6.30pm - bedtime

If she's only had a short pm nap, then make sure you put her to bed earlier for the night but hopefully with the shorter morning nap, her afternoon nap should come back and be the longer one. This is the routine we had pretty much until we went down to 1 nap, around 15/16 months.

HTH

[pareeta]

Thank you for the hugs and the reply!  I definitely need them!

I'll cut the morning nap tomorrow to 45 min and keep a 3 hour A time before the afternoon nap.  How long should her A time be in the mornings?  Right now if she wakes up at 5:30, it's between a 3 to 3.5 hour wake time.  Also, approximately how many days will this take to resolve?  i know this will take time, but i just want her to be her happy self again.  Her schedule today was as follows:

5:30 - wake
6:00 - resettled
6:45 awake for the day

8:45 - in crib
9:05 asleep
10:05 awake

12:40 - in crib

NO NAP

6:00 - in crib/asleep for the night (hopefully no night wakings)

[Layla]

We had 3 hrs A time in the morning but if mine woke earlier for the day, i used to stretch her till 9 am. Its probably not very BW like but it would otherwise throw the whole day off. Her A time in the afternoon may be not long enough....with us it was between 3-3.5 and sometimes what can happen is they aren't tired enough and just play and play and then get overtired nd either not sleep at all or take a short nap. Try 45 mins and put her down around 1pm and fingers crossed it works :-)

[pareeta]

I will try that tomorrow, and let you know how it goes.  thanks!

[pareeta]

Hi,

She went down at 6:05pm last night and woke up for a bit at 5:00am, but then went back to sleep until 6:45!!!  This is the first time she's done this! 

6:45 - awake
8:45 - PD in crib

She still hasn't slept.  She showed signs of being tired.  I'm not sure why she isn't sleeping.  Should I increase her A time to 3 hours if she wakes later than 6am?

[Joy-filled]

Just popping in to say I have been (and still am) where you are.  The pm nap has been a struggle for us for honestly months.  We're now at the point of transitioning to 1 nap (my LO is just a bit older than yours).  You need to do at least 3 hrs A time before the 1st nap, especially after such a great night of sleep.  You PD after 2hrs but she definitely wouldn't be tired enough at that point.  My DS was at 4 hrs of awake time before his morning nap at 10.5 months.

[pareeta]

Hi Char K,

Thanks for replying.  The nap struggle has been happening for 2 months now, and I'm hoping that it gets better.  I feel so bad for her because she is so tired. 

As for the morning nap, she pooped!  I think that might have had something do it with as well as the early PD.  Tomorrow I'm going to wait and PD at 3 hours.  We were having a dance party (my niece, nephew and my daughter dancing in the family room), and she fell asleep in my arms just a few minutes ago.  Let's see how long she naps for...hoping for a 2 to 3 hour   I can hope!

I hope the 2 to 1 nap transition goes well for you.  I'm hoping I can do it sooner than later as well. 

[pareeta]

Leela only took a 30 min nap.  I'm not sure if i should keep her up until bedtime, which is 6pm or should i put her down again?  So far her schedule today looks like this:

6:45 - wake
8:45 - in crib NO NAP
12:00 - fell asleep in arms
12:30 - awake

Thoughts?

[Joy-filled]

I would definitely try for another nap.  Perhaps after 2.5 hrs A time?  Any one else have any ideas on A time?  I know for sure you should try for another nap but I'm not totally sure what A time you should use. 

Just curious if after she refused the am nap you tried before 12:00 when she fell asleep in your arms? She had a 30 min nap because she was very OT from having an A time of 5.25 hrs.  In the future, if she refuses her am nap I'd try again 1 hr later. If she refuses again, then I'd try to APOP by rocking, driving or taking her in the stroller.  Have you tried that?

[Layla]

I also agree that you may need more than 2 hrs A time... so if she woke close to 7am, then try for 10am morning nap. Some can do even more than that.

If she only slept for 30mins, I would definitely try for another nap before bedtime... try 2.5 as CharK suggested. If she doesn't have a nap before 4pm, then I would seriously just do an earlier bedtime (around 5-5.30pm). I remember there was 1 time I put dd2 to bed for the night at 4.30pm. She only had a 45min nap in the morning and nothing in the afternoon (it was her b'day party) and I just put her to sleep and crossed my fingers for a decent night and she slept till 6.30am the next day!

It can be a very messy transition... 1 nap is not enough and 2 is too many

[pareeta]

I kept her in the crib for 1 hr and 45 min in the morning hoping she would fall asleep.  I did the same thing with the noon nap, but she's just overtired and can't put herself back to sleep. With both naps she pooped which probably has something to do with her not sleeping as well. 

 I've tried rocking her but she just plays and babbles.  Stroller doesn't work anymore unfortunately, and in the car she only takes a 30 min nap which is probably better than nothing. 

I usually put her down at 5:30 if she hasn't had an afternoon nap, but she wakes up at 5am.  I've noticed that if i put her down at 6pm, she usually sleeps a little longer.  Maybe i can try putting her down at 5 just to see if that helps her sleep longer in the am. 

I'll let you know how tomorrow goes. 

[pareeta]

I put her down last night at 6pm and she fell asleep immediately.

5:20 - Awake
6:35 - Asleep (I keep her in the crib until 7)
7:15 - Awake (I had  to wake her up)

9:30 - PD in crib

I was a little confused as to what time to PD since she fell back asleep at 6:40.  I've read after a 30 min nap to PD around 2/2.5 hours.  She looked really tired...poor thing has dark circles.  I'm crossing my fingers she takes this nap! She's clearly overtired.  I should still wake her up after 45 min, right? 

[pareeta]

It's been an hour and she's very tired, but not sleeping.  She's definitely trying to sleep.  I feel very discouraged thinking that I'm doing something wrong.  My husband thinks we should do set nap times, but that worked between 6 to 8 months.  She's so overtired that I feel i just need to let her sleep as long as she wants and PD early 5:30/6 for bedtime so she can make up all her sleep.  I also feel i'm inconsistent with the naps.  Her wake times for the  are so inconsistent it is hard to keep her naps set.

[Joy-filled]

Your DD is both UT and OT.  PD at 9:30 when she woke up at 7:15 was too soon.  That's only an A time of 2.25 hrs.  She needs at a minimum 3 hrs, even though she was awake from 5:20-6:35.  You need to count your A time from when she wakes up or if you don't get her up right away you count it as 1/2 time from WU to GU.  For example, if she wakes up at 6:30 but you don't get her up until 7:00 then you would count her A time from 6:45 and PD no earlier than 9:45.  Otherwise she's just going to be UT, won't fall asleep and will work herself into a state of OTness and either refuse the nap or give you a short OT nap.  Does that make sense?  If she only sleeps 30 min this am I would PD after 2.5 hrs for her pm nap but not earlier as she will likely be UT again and same thing - she'll lie there a long time and won't fall asleep and will work herself into an OT state and short nap at best.  What do you think?