5 month old Early Wake

[Jodes112]

Hi,

I had a thread in easy forum helping me with EASY and we seem to be in a good routine right now.

The only problem we have is an EW. And its been going on since LG started sleeping through at around 3 months.

Our general day looks like this -

Wake for day 6am

E - 6.45
A - 2hrs 40
S - 8.40 - 10 (ranges from 1hr 15 to 1 hr 30)
E - 11
A - 2hrs 40
S - 12.40 - 2.15 (this one is usually a little longer 1hr30 - 2hrs)
E - 3
A - 2hrs 40
S - 4.50 - 5.15 (usually 20-30 mins)

Bedtime routine is half bottle 6.15, bath 6.30, rest of bottle 6.50 an in bed around 7.15 usually asleep with no issues by 7.30.

So over the last week, she has woke at 4am chatted for no more than 30 mins then back to sleep on own until 6am when is is ready to get up for the day. This has been the same for about the last week. Prior to this she was waking at 5am chatting for 30 mons then back to sleep until 7. And this jappens every morning.

So my first question is -  why does she wake at 4am (was 5 for a long time) and babble for 20 mins then go back to sleep?

And why the sudden shift back an hour? I mich prefferd her waking for the day at 7am!!

Any help would be great x

[PaulsMom]

Hugs Hun.  I'd say that she's ready for the 3-2 nap transition.  Here's some info on the 3-2.  All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months.  Since her a is already long, I would drop the CN and do an earlier bt. 

[Jodes112]

Really, right i will see how we go! Its hard to start it with a 6am wake up as it leaves a big stretch at tge end of the day. Like today has gone like this so far

Wu 6am

S - 8.40 - 10.10

S - 12.50 - and still asleep. So if she goes 2 hrs nap now its still only gonna be 3 ish when she wakes that leaves a 3 1/2 awake til bedtime if i put her to bed at 6.30 Do you think thats too long? Il see how she feels later and take it from there.

But if she wakes up at 7 at some point over the nxt few days i will deffo start it then

Thanks x

[PaulsMom]

Yes, it's a bit of a vicious cycle when they ew.  3.5 hrs is long but some bubs can handle a long A until bt as long as its very routine and relatively low key.  What temperament is your Lo? My dd is textbook and has handled longer As until bt without becoming overly OT.

[PaulsMom]

The other option (maybe) is to give her a feed when she wakes early and then put down down immediately.  So treat the ew like a nw and see if she sleeps longer.  If she does then do the early bt and no CN.  Would that work for you?

[Jodes112]

Cant start today, she only had an hour and 10 nap this aft so was up at 2. 2-6 is a bit too long for her i think.

First opertunity i get (where she wakes up in the morning later) i will give it a go xx

[PaulsMom]

Fx for a good night and proper wu time.  Keep us posted. X

[Jodes112]

Woke for the day today... 6am! I cant really moan as its not too bad. Would just like it to be 7! And for some reason she didnt wake at all before this (at 4) mabee thats just a fluke. We'll see xx

[PaulsMom]

6 am is not bad.  For my dd, I considered anything after 6 am the start of the day and anything before a nw.  Lets see how naps go today.

[Jodes112]

I agree it really isnt bad! But, i hve a 2 year old and as soon ad he hears her he wakes up, when he needs to sleep to 7 otherwise he is super grumpy with lack of sleep. So i can deal with it but would be great if she went a little longer xx

[Jodes112]

Good morning.

This morn we had a 5.30am wake up. I left her to see if she would re settle but she eventually got louder she was def not going back to sleep. So we got up at 6.15.

5.30 is too early. My poor son has obviously been awake since then too so he is going to be super grumpy today.

Do you think if i put her to bed later say 8, dhe would wake up later? Im not sure, as the other night she we to bed at 6.45 and wake at 6am, last night was 7.30 and woke at 5.30 this morn. Id love to start and try dropping the cat nap but i need to start on a day where she is up at 6.30 at the earliest.

Any ideas?

[Jodes112]

Grr today would have been perfect if she didnt have that early wake!

She has gone about 2hr 50 A and first nap was 1hr 15 mins second 1hr 45 mins! Obviously will have to do cat nap as its too long to go til bedtime but as soon as she stops that ew she is definatley ready to drop cat nap. Its like a vicious circle i cant drop the cat nap because of the early wake but i need to drop the cat nap to stop the early wake.... I just hope we get a decent wake up in the morning!!

[PaulsMom]

Have you considered giving her a feed at 5:30 and then putting her down?  She might sleep in a bit more for you.  Yay for the better naps but I agree that a CN would be needed.

Wrt a later bt, if she has a CN, then I would put her down a bit later but the sleep theory is that an early bt will allow them to catch up on sleep whereas this won't really happen if you do the CN and the late bt.  Some moms will do a really early bt when they drop the CN (so bt would be around 5:30 or so).

[Jodes112]

Im not sure if the feed woul work as she is so wide awake. And tends to mess with her AM bottle too. So not sure it would work. But i see your theory.

If i put her to bed at 5.30 i would worry that she still only sleep 10 hours and wake at 3.30 for the day. Would this happen or generally not?

And then how would we get rid of the ew and early bd? And something more like 7-7?

Thanks for advice

[PaulsMom]

The super early bt would be a strategy used to help alleviate the OT so not a long term strategy.  Generally speaking, we wake in the morning due to external stimulus (light and sound) in combination with hormones.  So these things wouldnt normally occur in the middle of the night.  hence she wouldmbe less likely to wake at 3:30. 

The other strategy for ew is to push the am nap a bit so if she wakes at 5:30 but you don't get her up until 6:30, then count the time in the crib as 30 min and not 60 min toward her A time.  So instead of napping around 8 am, her am nap is 30 min later.  The risk here is that she becomes OT and just short naps. 

You could try a later am nap (ie time in crib is counted as half A) and if needed do a CN to get her to a proper bt and see how she does.  You may need to do the same routine for several days to see how she adjusts to it.  If her wu times start to improve, then drop the CN but do an earlier bt.  How does that sound?

[Jodes112]

Thabks so much for the response. Would have def done the later am nap however, she woke up at 6.50 this morn! Yipeeee.

So today im going to aim for

Wake 6.50

A - 2hr 50
S - 10 - 11.15/11.30

A - 2hr 50
S - 2.15 ish - 4

A - 3 hrs
Bedtime 7pm. If she seems a little tireder i will put her to bed earlier but her A times wil fit perfect into the day. Just hope now she will have good naps!

Yay.

[PaulsMom]

Fx and vibes for the perfect nap day!

[Jodes112]

Today has gone pretty good! Not exactly to plan but we managed to cut the cat nap out of today! And dd was happy enough.

I did plan on putting her to bed at 6.30 but we had to go supermarket and by the time we got back, bath, bottle it was 6.46 when she went to bed and 7 by te time she fell asleep (settled good as normal)

It looked like this:

Wu 6.50
E - 7.30
A - 2hr 55
S - 9.45 - 11

E - 11.30
A - 2hr 50
S - 1.50 - 3.15 (had to resettle after 30 mins)

E - 3.30
A - 3hr 45 (too long but she handled it fine)
S - asleep for night 7pm

I wonder how she will sleep and what time she will wake in the morn.... Only time will tell.

Think if she sticks on the 7-7 i need to moe feedings around as the aft nap i would like er to sleep til 4 but her feed is due at 3.30, but will see how things go.

Thanks for your help x

[PaulsMom]

Yay!  That day looks pretty good.  Agree bt was a but late but if she repeats her wu time tomorrow, then just bump her bt forward a bit. 

Yes you can move her feed in the afternoon if you want but also don't worry too much if she goes longer than 4 hrs between feeds.  Once their As are more than 2 hrs then it does become tricky for milk feeds.  Normally what is done is to introduce solids.

[Jodes112]

5.30 wake up again this morn!

I guess it will take a few goes to get into it? Not sure i can do 2 naps again today as her first started at 8.30! An still going so will prib end about 10. I guess if she has nxt nap at 1-3 i could mabee do early bt at 6.

What u think?

[PaulsMom]

That might work but if she short naps then do three naps.  The 3-2 transition is tricky and doesn't always happen overnight    so hang in there!

[Jodes112]

Thank you, least i know it can be done when she is ready! Think teething is involved today and mabee a touch of overtired too but def teething. She had another nap 11.30-12.30 (she dropped asleep while playing after chewing everything is sight and whining most of the morning. Bless her love her loads.

Il update u in a few days let u know how were getting on. Thanks for your help 😀

[Jodes112]

Im back!!

Because i cant handle the early mornings any more!! Yesterday and today at 5am i went in and tried to AP (rock her, which is sometimes how i have to get her to sleep at cat nap) thought id try it. No chance. She is wide awake and ready for the day. She has def had enough sleep.

I dont know how to combat this!!?? Im wondering if 10 hrs is the max she needs at night? Im also wondering why the heck 5am exactly each morning?? Haha. She has a black out blind velcro'd to the window but there is a small gap under the door which will let a small amount of light in mabee i will try block that off too. I just find it crazy how she knows its 5am?!!

Im going to give it a few more days if still waking at 5am with 10 hrs sleep im seriously thinling of moving her bt to 8.30 and try that for a week see if she still does 10 hrs ish or if she still has her secret alarm clock waking her up at 5am.

I cant think of anything else, apart from he sets a secret alarm before she falls asleep to wake herself up at 5am. Haha. Crazy stuff babies are.

What do you think?

[PaulsMom]

Sure, it's worth a try.  Once she's waking at a more normal hour, then try dropping that CN and a 7 pm bt.  Good luck!

[Jodes112]

Hiya just filling you in on whats been happening here!

So night 1 of later bedtime she was asleep by 8.15 and slept all the way through to 6.20! (Yay) kept the 3 nap that day and pit down on night 2 at 7.50 and was asleep by 8. Woke up from that at 6.45am (yay again)

Las night put to bed t 7.30 as she had 3 short naps in the day due to us being out all day.woke at 4.30am but could tell she was still tired so left her she was back asleep by 5.15 an i had to wake her up this morn at 7.30!

So this gives me a great day to try and cut out the cat nap but im still going to aim for a bedtime of around 7.30. Depending on nap lengths.

So all is good! Finally yipee.

Will let u know in a few days how were grttin on x

[PaulsMom]

Yay!  So glad she's getting good nt sleep!  Fx for the cn drop.  Keep us posted!

[Jodes112]

Hi! Great night!

Nap 1 yesterday was 10.45 to 11.45 second nap 2.40 to 4.  Bed at 7.30 and up at 7am.

Yipee. Hope today goes well too

Xx

[PaulsMom]

That's awesome!