Need to night wean my 1 year old

[fellianne]

My LO just turned one and she still nurses at night.  I have been an avid poster on the reflux thread because it has been a hard year!  She still wakes many times a night and I'm still not sure if it's pain or stubbornness.  I think sometimes it depends on the night.

I need some help trying to get rid of the night feeds.  I had been successful about a month ago, but when I know she's in pain I usually end up nursing her.  Or when I'm SO tired from being up all night I end up nursing her in the wee hours of the morning.  And then we are back in the cycle of nursing at night.

She almost always wakes around 10 PM and that's when I try to feed her last.  She will often try to nurse with her wakings after that and I just try to keep her head on my shoulder and snuggle her.  She will settle down after a few minutes and fall back asleep.  But then she usually wakes up 45 minutes later and we do it again.  It seems that if I do end up nursing her she will sleep for a longer period of time.  Could she be hungry? 

I don't want to nurse her at night anymore, but I don't know how keep her asleep if I don't nurse her.

[malenka]

How's her food intake during the day? By one year of age, I wouldn't think she should be hungry during the night. It might be more of a habit, or it could do with the reflux. Is she on reflux meds at the moment? Could it be time to adjust the dose? If she's able to resettle without nursing, it sounds more like a habit to me. Can someone else go to her when she wakes at night so that she's not smelling your milk? When I was weaning DS off the night feeds, I had DH resettle him when he woke at night and it seemed to make a big difference.

[fellianne]

I usually think it's more habit, too.  But then there are nights when I'm pretty sure it's pain.  The reflux has been a roller coaster and she's on prevacid and zantac.  My husband tried to resettle her all night on Saturday night and she woke every 30-45 minutes.  Does it usually take more than one night with them doing it?  When it's me, she always wants to nurse.  Even if she nursed 30 minutes before that.

She's increasing her food intake.  It had been minimal cause she just wouldn't eat much.  I think we've turned a corner in the last few days.  She is loving yogurt now and also her fruits/veggies.  I'm trying to get more calories in her cause she's so busy during the day.

[malenka]

Unfortunately, it's been my experience that it takes more than one night to break a habit.

DS also had reflux issues, and we weaned him off his meds shortly after he turned one, which turned out to be a mistake and we had to put him back on meds. Might be worth talking to your dr to make sure the dosage is correct.

Hopefully some other eyes will have additional ideas for you.

[fellianne]

Thank you so much!  I figured it would take more than a night.  

[Fiver]

I used to send my DH in to settle during the night too. I'm on my phone and haven't worked out how to paste links yet, but have you checked out the FAQs?

[*Ali*]

Was there a particular FAQ you were thinking of Amanda?
Maybe this one?
Night Feeds and the Breast Fed Baby

Worth checking the reflux board too of course. And very important to make sure she is pain free before you attempt sleep training.

Is your LO using the breast to get to sleep for naps and at BT or just at night feeds? Has she ever been an independent sleeper?

I weaned the final NF from my two at 12.5 and 15mo and it too a good week of resettling. DH did DS1 and I did DS2 because he wasn't used to DH settling him to start with. Is your LO used to DH putting her to sleep for naps or BT or any NWs? If not I expect it will take even longer.

[Fiver]

Probably Ali! Or maybe the weaning one. Will try to get on the laptop later and have a browse!

[Fiver]

Yes, the FAQ that Ali mentioned was the one I was thinking of (thanks, Ali!).  The last link at the bottom of it (to kellymom.com) has some great tips for dropping a NF.

[fellianne]

Thank you!  My husband has settled her at night, but never put her to sleep.  She breastfeeds before she falls asleep every time.  But I try to put her in her bed kind of awake.  She had been an independent sleeper and used to not nurse before sleep at all.  Then when the reflux got really, really bad she started nursing a lot more.  I am sure she is pain free now, but she is really stubborn.

I tried to get her down for her nap this AM.  She always nurses before sleep and I popped her off and tried to lay her down.  She usually wiggles and all but I can pat her back to sleep.  Today she would have none of that.  When this happens I usually try to pick her up and resettle her.  She just wanted to nurse, so I put her back in her bed.  She cried for TWO hours!!!!!!  I was in there with her the entire time trying to calm and reassure her.  But I didn't pick her up.  I tried to pat her back and just speak calmly like I do when I resettle her at night.  Well, the frustrated cries turned into a kicking tantrum in her bed.  It truly lasted 2 hours and I couldn't take anymore so I finally picked her up.  She cried awhile in my arms and then started to fall asleep.  I tried to lay her down and she fought like crazy.  This happened twice.  So I have up.  She has had no nap yet today and has been up for 6.5 hours.  Did I do something wrong?  We don't do pu/pd cause of the reflux.  So I just kept trying to resettle in her bed.  I don't know what to do.

Also, my husband stayed with her last night and I fed her at her 10:30 waking but not after that.  She woke 7 times from 1:30 until 5:30.  Is this normal for weaning?  She has ALWAYS woken a lot at night. 

[*Ali*]

Have you been resettling NWs without feeding for many nights now or had it been inconsistent and you were someone's feeding her?
For naps Tracy recommended only trying for about 40-45 mins and then stopping and bringing her out of the bedroom for some low key A time and a feed of she is due one. Then you can try again after about 20 mins. That way you both get a break and it will allow her to recover from any upset.

[fellianne]

It was absolutely awful and I felt like it was just too long.  I felt like it became a battle of wills.  Do you think I broke her trust after that today?  Or made her afraid of her bed?  I feel so bad about it. She never did take a nap today.  I got her asleep for the night at 6:45.  She put up a little fight when I tried to lay her down the first few times.  Then the 4th time I got her in her bed and continued to pat her back until she was asleep.  She woke 45 minutes later and wouldn't let me resettle her in her bed.  So I picked her up and she calmed down on my shoulder and I was able to lay her back down.

I don't usually feed her at night anymore.  I really try not to feed her after the 10ish feed.  But when I think she's in pain I'll give in and feed her to comfort her.  But I really do try to be consistent with not feeding because I don't want to confuse her.  I always try to resettle in her bed by patting her back and talking softly to her.  When that doesn't work, I'll pick her up and walk with her while patting her back.  She tries to nurse first every time.  When she realizes I am not going to nurse her, she will settle on my shoulder.  Some nights it takes a really long time, other nights just a few minutes.  Then I get her back in her bed.  Some nights she'll sleep 1.5-2 hours, other nights she's up 45 minutes later.  I don't think she's in pain right now from the reflux.  I think it's become a habit and I just don't think I'm doing the right things to break it.

[*Ali*]

Do you think she really needs that 10pm feed? Maybe that is confusing her as she feels she is still getting fed at some NWs so it is worth trying to protest? Maybe she would better understand if you said "we don't have milk at night anymore so once you are in bed there is no more milk until morning."

[Fiver]

Do you think she might have any teeth coming through that could be making her uncomfortable at night?

[fellianne]

I don't think there are any teeth coming through at the moment.  She has her two top and two bottom.  The top ones really, really upset the reflux, but they are all the way through now.  I feel like the waking is just a habit right now.

I'll try stopping the 10ish feed.  I am worried about it and it makes me a bit sad.  But I do think you are right about it being confusing for her. Do you think she'll understand if I tell her no more milk until morning? My heart breaks for her when she wants to nurse at night and I don't nurse her.  But she's over 1 now and I am really, really tired.  I would love to get several hours of continuous sleep. 

[Fiver]

If I were you, I'd try sending in DH to resettle her in the night so there's no temptation for you to feed and she more than likely realises he can't help her out there

[*Ali*]

Yes it is sad but like you I needed my sleep and my boys did too. I weaned the last NF from DS1 at 12.5mo and from DS2 at 15mo and I was so glad I did honestly. After a week or two they didn't even seem to remember NFs.

[fellianne]

So tonight I will get rid of the 10ish feed.  I have not fed her at night other than that and she still continues to wake a lot.  After the first waking it's nearly every hour.  Do you think it's cause she wants to nurse?  It doesn't seem to be pain related right now.  Also, she has been REALLY clingly lately.  And wanting to nurse all the time during the day.  She tries to pull down my shirt - even if I've nursed her less than an hour before.  I try to go 4 hours or so between nursing.  Do you think all this is because she isn't nursing at night?  And should I just nurse her all the time during the day now?

[fellianne]

Also, I'm confused about her naps, too.  I try to keep her A time 4.15 to 4.45 in the AM.  She gets really fussy in the AM.  Some days she will sleep 3 hours without waking up!  Other days she will wake every 45 minutes and need me to resettle. Sometimes she'll sleep a second 45, sometimes a third, and sometimes only the first 45 minutes.  I don't understand.  Do you think it's related to not feeding during the night?  I don't resettle for naps with nursing.  I try to keep her in her bed and pat her back, but I'll usually have to pick her up and then she'll relax back to sleep.  It can be the exact same schedule for days in a row, but the nap is still crazy.  And the nights are never the same, either.   Do you think it's feeding related?

[*Ali*]

When I hear a LO is waking every sleep cycle or every few sleep cycles at night and naps there are two things that spring to my mind immediately. Discomfort and prop. It sounds like she is coming into lighter sleep at certain points in her sleep and she is either disturbed because she is in pain or discomfort from reflux or teething (or illness) or she is looking for mum because she has got used to mum being there when she falls asleep and she isn't in a mind to just roll over and put herself back to sleep. So if you are sure she is pain-free from the reflux and she isn't teething then it is probably a self-settling issue. So she has got used to you being there patting or feeding or just having a hand on her or whatever and when she stirs she is looking for you to do that again to get her back off.

If this is the case then getting her back to independent sleep for all sleeps will go a long way to getting her comfortable to be alone in bed and just resettle herself.

[fellianne]

Thank you so much!  It's been a hard year because of all the reflux pain.  I have definitely become a prop.  But I am pretty sure that at this moment (sometimes it changes quickly) she is pain free.  When she does start to teethe again or if the reflux flairs again, do I nurse her?

Last night went WAY better than I expected!  She woke at 7:45, 9:30, 9:50, 11:00 and then not again until 4AM!!!!  Then again at 5:52AM.  It has been at least 8 months since she has slept for 5 hours straight.  I didn't nurse her at all.  DH settled her the first 3 times and I did from 11:00 on.  Do you think it was a fluke or do you think we are on the right track?

[Fiver]

Also, she has been REALLY clingly lately.

Also sounds like there might be a bit of separation anxiety creeping in there.  Are you able to distract her during the day to do something else if she asks to feed?

When she does start to teethe again or if the reflux flairs again, do I nurse her?

I think I would try to find some other source of relief/comfort for her at those times.

[fellianne]

Okay, thank you.  I'll try to play with her when she tries to nurse.  And what do I do about separation anxiety? 

And that night was a fluke because last night was AWFUL!!!!  She woke 6 times from 1-3 and then stayed up from 3-3:57.  Then woke again at 4:48 and I had to have my husband take care of her until morning.  I think maybe something was hurting?  I don't see teeth, but gave her Tylenol and also some tummy drops we use that are supposed to help with reflux pain.  But it was a rough night.  I'm trying to rule out food intolerances.  I didn't nurse her at all when she woke. 

[Fiver]

Tips for seperation anxiety