3-2 switch messing up A time??

[Mandy.kamal]

The average A times post says that at his age, A time is between 2hr 45min and 3 hr 15 mins though. I think that's why I'm a little confused as to why 3 hours was working great, but now it's not at all. Sometimes 3 hrs produces OT and other days UT.

This morning he woke somewhere between 5:30- 6:00am (which would be considered an EW for us). Now I'm completely at a loss as to what time to put him to sleep for his first nap...

I'm just going to try and read his cues (although his sleepy cues are basically nonexistent now). We will see!

[Mandy.kamal]

Okay! I'm open to ANY suggestions though. These naps are awful so I'm desperate!
I figured my A times are what's causing these bad naps, but if you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them. You've been so much help to me...

[Buttonbobs]

I think that's why I'm a little confused as to why 3 hours was working great, but now it's not at all

This is hard. I suppose the way I think about it is that I have days when I am more tired than others, and it will depend on how well I have slept the night before and what I've been up to in the day. I know with my DD (who is older at 22 months) if she is running around all morning she'll be ready for a good nap a bit earlier than normal and also if she's been still a lot, she'll be more lethargic and will look at lot more tired but may not actually be ready for a good nap.

If the 3 hour A time wasn't right for your LO before, perhaps try 3hr10 mins, and hold it for a few days. The holding is really really important as any change will not be what your LO was expecting and you'll need to give him time to get used to it before you are really able to tell if a further change is needed.

This is a time when some Los need lots more A than those average times. My DD had quite big leaps in her A times at around this age. The trouble with this is that it leads to OT, which then makes them tired earlier than normal. A mum's instinct is to cut the A times more as they seem so tired. But this just makes the situation worse.

You might be getting early WUs from a UT/OT spiral. I would push that A time out a little more and hold and see if the situation improves.

[Mandy.kamal]

Thanks Naomi.

My DS and I have both been crying this morning...I'm so so discouraged.

I out him down to nap at 9:00 (he woke up between 5:30 and 6:00- can't remover exactly what time) so I figured 9:00 was a safe bet. He also yawned just before I laid him down. But he woke 38 mins later and off and on crying and playing in crib. I don't know what to do at this point.

My going in and out to 'help' is making things worse. I fear we are slowly spiraling downhill and I know it's my fault.

[Buttonbobs]

Honey it's not your fault (((hugs))) it could be developmental or teething, both things that cannot be controlled by a parent. All LOs go through these hard times and nap transitions are always fraught. You are doing the best you can. Here to hold your hand xxx

[Mandy.kamal]

Thanks Naomi...so much.

I'm just really struggling right now. I let our EASY slip for a few weeks and I know that's made both me and my DS completely confused. I'm sure that me screwing up his A times has lead to this mess so I just feel bad and completely responsible for this blip.

I just desperately want to get back in track. I need to correct this UT/OT loop and don't know where to begin at this point. Today is already way off so ill just try and survive with a couple more short naps and hope for better success tomorrow.

When he does an EW, should I still push for the 3 hr 10 min A time? Also, should I ONLY do 2 naps and skip the CN no matter what? Or is it best to do 3 short naps until we get a normal WU time so we can start 'fresh' with our EASY?

[Mandy.kamal]

Here was today:

Woke between 5:30-6:00am (EW and I was too tired to write down exact time...)
E 7:00
A 3 hrs (or more...since I'm not exact on the WU time)
S 9:00- 9:38 (refused to go back to sleep with or without my help)

E 10:45
A
S 12:15-1:00 (back to sleep at 1:15 until 2:00)

E 2:45
A
S 3:30-4:00 (way OT by this point...)

E
A 2 hr 30m
BT 6:30

He is an excellent self soother and when I go in to 'help' when he's really crying hard, he always ends up happy and being silly. I just get him up because its a lost cause by that point.
I know my A times are all whacked out and he's us a nasty UT-OT spiral.

I stopped writing down our EASY for a couple weeks due to some family matters that I had to deal with and unfortunately, I don't remember where we left off in regards to A times that were producing good naps. I believe we were around the 2 hr 45 min range with an occasional 3 hr.

Tomorrow morning I will try the 2hr 45m A time first and see what I get...
Once I find an A time that helps with a long nap, then at least ill have a starting point and can slowly bump up his A time from there.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? I am at a total loss and feel so guilty...

[Buttonbobs]

We are working at merging your two topics but before that works I'm sure I read on that other thread that you had been getting some good naps after 3 hours so you know he can do that. It may be that things have moved on and he needs 3 hrs 15 mins say to get a good nap of more than 1.5 hours.

What is your ideal WU time, I would guess something around 7am. That's quite a way off what he is doing now so let's say with a 6.15 WU, a 3hr15 A time would mean putting him down for the first nap at 9.30am. I'm sort of suggesting fixing the nap time at 9.30am or later depending on if he wakes after 6.15. If you get a good 1.5hour plus nap you can do another 3hr15A time to the next nap and the the same to BT if you get a second good nap. If you get a bad first nap, shorten that second A time perhaps but only by a little (say 3hrs) and see what happens.

I would do as weaver has suggested and go without the CN and go for EBT if you can, as to keep any kind of Cn will keep the day longer and likely lead to more OT.

What do you think?

[Mandy.kamal]

I will do whatever you think!! Thank you so much for the detailed advice- that's exactly what I needed

He woke up at 6:15 exactly, so ill try the nap at 9:30 as you suggested. Hoping for a good nap!!

My ideal WU time would be 7:30-8. Only because the time is about to change in a couple months and we will go backwards an hour. If his WU is closer to 7:30am I won't have to worry about switching things on him every 6 months

As far as the CN goes...he's been doing 2 lousy naps (under an hour) so I've been doing a CN to avoid putting him to bed crazy early. But I am beyond ready to ditch the CN so ill do whatever it takes. How early can I do BT though? I really don't want WU time to keep creeping earlier and earlier.

One more question...sorry I feel like a pain...I can push A time when DS is simply fussy and rubbing his eyes, but when he starts yawning- should I put him down regardless?

Thank you SO SO SO much....

[Buttonbobs]

I know it's hard to imagine but keeping the CN could be what's making the naps short. If you get two short naps then you may need to go early for bed - say 5.30/6pm. I know this will seem scary because you'll fear an EW but you might get an EW from BT being too late anyway. You'll need to watch his signals really. Weaver might have some suggestions about this too.

I wouldn't worry too much about a yawn as a sleep cue - by this age my DD would yawn to show boredom as well as tiredness and so I would try doing something different at that time or even offer some good as my E also yawns when she's low blood sugar too. Then if he still looks very tired then try for sleep.

You can work towards and ideal wake up bit by hot. Don't worry about clock changes every six months as he will change so much in his sleep needs by the next clock change anyway. Hugs xx

[weaver]

^^^ this, about the cat nap and early bedtime.

It might seem crazy to take away an opportunity for him to sleep but it's really important at this stage to re-train his sleep expectations, so that he knows he doesn't get another go at it later in the day and will therefore sleep better earlier.  So instead of a CN, go for an early bedtime.  Early bedtime can also really help with early wake-ups (later bt can often mean an early WU, babies are so strange...). By doing no CN and an EBT, you're teaching him to sleep more at night rather than during the day ... which is where we want to end up.

What I hear from your posts, Mandy, is that you're really afraid of him getting OT.  This is a good way to be and all credit to you for looking out for your boy!   Right now he needs you to push him a little bit and help him establish a better routine.  You're essentially re-teaching him his routine. You need to be mega-consistent for a few days so he doesn't get confused.  That means, you need to try an A time and stick with it, and avoid catnaps, if you can at all, for three days at least.  Does that sound possible?

[Mandy.kamal]

Thank you sweet ladies.

I did the 9:30 nap and he woke after 45 minutes, relaxed for another 10 then starting wailing! I've been trying on and off to resettle him but I only make him excited and playful when I go in and he screams again when I leave. Usually the crying means he's OT but the 45 min nap is usually UT....

I will definitely take your advice and completely drop the CN and only do EBT and hope to see some changes.

What A time should I do then? Stick with 3 hr 15m? Move back or forward??
I cannot find an appropriate A time. I may try a shorter one tomorrow morning to see what that does maybe? Or if I consistently keep with 3.15 will he just adjust eventually?

And yes...I am terrified of him getting OT. He screams and screams nonstop to the point where he chokes himself so I always try to avoid that at all costs

[Buttonbobs]

Hi honey, whatever you do consistency is the key - stick to 3 hrs 15 for now or he won't stand a chance of knowing what to expect. If after 3 days you're still getting 45 min naps we'll know we need to increase it again - but for now all I can say is he might now have adjusted yet. It is a wait and see game I'm afraid. Xx

[Mandy.kamal]

Great advice! Ill stick to the 3.15 for the next few days and won't do the CN at all and see where things go!
Thank you so very much! Ill let you know how things are coming along...

[Mandy.kamal]

He had 2 short naps yesterday and I did the EBT of 6:00pm.....didn't go so well. He had 2 NW- which he hasn't done in months and he woke up before 5:00am and is awake for the day.....