9 wo waking every half an hour through the night!

[tchrmom8]

We're having a similar issue with our 9-week old (and have had this problem for most of his life!)  I'm wondering how to help a baby learn how to get back to sleep after those natural interruptions in the sleep cycle. 

My LO will get a 5-6 hour stretch of sleep after bedtime, but he is restless for the rest of the night.  After a LONG road, he has finally learned to nap well in the day and we've got a good 3-hr. EASY routine going.  Bedtime is about 7:15/7:30. We've started doing a dreamfeed around 10, but he's still up and seems hungry somewhere between 12:30 and 1:30AM.  If he does sleep after that it's short, and by about 3AM every morning he's restless.  He would sleep if we held him but don't want to set that habit so we settle him in his crib with a shush/pat, but he won't stay asleep more than about 20-30 min.  I've even tried stretching out the shush/pat loooong after he has settled, but he's always fussing again in a short time.  Any thoughts on what else  I should try to help this LO sleep in those early AM hours?  Are lyssie28 and I dealing with the same type of issue here?

[Layla]

Hi there and welcome to the BW 

Would you be able to post what your EAS looks like? At 9 weeks, we also had a long (ish) stretch start of the night but after that my LO would wake between 2-3 hrs and I would feed her. At such a young age, it is hard for them to sleep through (DF or not) and if he's only sleeping for 20-30 mins and as you mentioned he is acting hungry, it is quiet possible he is hungry and can't settle because of that. Sometimes the DF can interrupt their sleep so I would look at doing 3-4 nights without the DF to see how long he will sleep for naturally without it and feed him when he wakes but he may very well still wake after, needing another feed.

Let me know what you think

[tchrmom8]

We were thinking it could be a hunger issue only because I can't think of anything else to look at right now!  But what seems strange to me is that when the problem started it just seemed like he grew harder to settle after each feeding (and wouldn't settle after about 3AM).  It seems like he would at least sleep a little immediately after a feeding.  This is actually our first week doing the DF in hopes that it could help.  Without it we had the same scenario, he just woke for the next feeding a little earlier. (Around 5-6 weeks old, naps were a disaster and I assumed he was just overtired, but he has since learned to nap well and the problem persists.)   

Our EAS does not necessarily happen at consistent times each day since we are having trouble establishing a regular wake time.  It's more a matter of what time we give up trying to pat him (or hold him as we did for awhile!)  But here's what yesterday looked like:

WU 6:45AM  (although he had been restless for hours. Usually WU is closer to 5:30 though...)
E  7:00
A
S 8:00-10:00
E 10:10
A
S 11:15-12:15
E 12:30
A
S 1:40-3:40 (I woke him after 2 hours)
E 3:55
A
S 5:00-5:55
E 6:15
A
S 7:30
DF 10:00


Whatever time we count as the WU time, we have been doing a pretty consistent 3-hour(ish) schedule.  Since we are often up and around early (between 5 and 6AM most days because we just give up) it makes for a LONG day before bedtime, and I'm not sure if I should wake LO after 45 min or so to keep a CN or let him have more of a regular nap to prevent a long stretch before bedtime.  Either way he seems to do well with his first stretch of sleep, need some patting a few times after the first feeding, and be restless from the second feeding (usually around 3AM) until we give up and start our day.  I really wouldn't mind continuing to feed him every 3 hours or so at night OR having to be up at 5AM each day, as long as I could get some sleep in between the feedings!

[Layla]

Could it be that he is just a noisy sleeper? I remember at that age, when mine was so little, she used to make all sorts of noises in her sleep (grunting noises) and she was doing them in her sleep. Does he cry out for you from 3am onwards or is he just making grunting type noises?

[tchrmom8]

He was definitely a grunter his first week or so, but now he will squirm and fuss quite a bit through that last part of the night, and if we don't go to him it escalates into crying. 

[Layla]

have you tried feeding him to see if that will help him settle?

[tchrmom8]

Well, that's what I think is so strange.  As long as I can remember he has been progressively harder to settle after each night feeding, so it doesn't seem like it would be a hunger issue since he just ate, but I don't know what else to consider!!  He's BF but we started doing bottles a few weeks ago to be sure he's getting enough.  Now that we're doing a DF he only wakes us for one feeding, but after that feeding he won't go back to sleep.  Last night he was awake smiling and cooing at 3:30 despite my attempts to avoid eye contact or any stimulation!  Is he just wired this way??  He can get himself to sleep for naps and bedtime, but the early AM is totally different.

This morning I considered just giving him some A time at 3:30 in hopes we could all sleep again in an hour.  It's probably a very bad idea, but I'm tempted to try because one hour of activity appeals to me more than a 3AM WU for the day.

[Layla]

(((hugs))),

If he's up and cooing, I would just let him be, to be honest. Jenny did this too and hubby and I thought it was hilarious at the start but then we realised we were paying too much attention to it and just left her to it and only when she would start crying, I would do the shh/pat. I also wonder if he may be sleeping too much during the day as this could be another reason why he is so wide awake at night! I wonder if you would consider tweaking it a little bit and see if that helps him. I have attached a link to sample EASY routines chronological EASY samples, 0-3 months Not all babies need 18hrs in 24hrs at this age.

Also, do you think the formula might be causing some discomfort? Any issues with constipation at all?

[tchrmom8]

Thanks, I will try some longer WT during the day to see if that helps.  He's already sleeping less than average total times, but we'll see if he's just that kind of sleeper.  I keep thinking there's something else I"m missing, but we've mainly addressed OT and hungry, and discomfort issues because it's all I can think of!  He seems so agitated at this time-- wants the pacifier, but drops it every couple minutes (it's definitely a prop at 3AM, but not at bedtime when he sucks a little and then spits it out! Hmmm.)  He squirms and grunts and fights the swaddle, and if I don't respond he will cry.  I probably should have just listed what we've done so far to make it easier...  Here's what we've wondered/tried so far that hasn't been successful:

-OT?- FINALLY taught him to get to sleep and nap w/3-hr EASY.  Bedtime is great and naps are (usually) successful.
-Hungry?  Added a dreamfeed, which left one less opportunity for him to be hard to settle after feeding.  Switched to bottles.  Still breastmilk, but now we can see how much he takes.)
-Hot/Cold/Uncomfortable?  Tried a few weeks w/o swaddle, slept on tummy, adjusted temp/clothing/fan.... went back to swaddle.
-I sh/pat, sometimes for loooooong periods, but it doesn't keep him sleeping for long once I stop.

So far, holding him is the only thing that has resulted in him sleeping (although it's not a sure thing even then!)  I don't want him to learn to expect holding at 3AM, but after months if this I need more sleep, and my daytime parenting (and soon my job) are suffering as a result.

[Layla]

How are you going?

[tchrmom8]

I don't want to jinx anything here, but I daresay we're making progress.  Over the past couple of weeks, really, we've been moving more toward just an early wake time problem (rather than the all-night-long issues we were having before.)  LO was still consistently awake from 3AM-5 or 6 AM unless we held him, but for 3 days now he has gone back to sleep after a feeding around 2AM and slept again until 4:00 or 5AM.  I tried feeding again and puttng him back to bed at those times but he was wide awake and fighting the swaddle.

Does anyone have any tips about where to go from here to encourage a little later wake up time?  Or is this just something that might happen as he gets older?

[Layla]

He is around 11 weeks now? It might be time to go down to 3 naps (2 long naps and a catnap) with a slightly earlier bedtime? What does his EAS look like now?

[tchrmom8]

I was wondering about that.  Since he still doesn't have a consistent WU time our days are still different time-wise, but the routine is in place. EAS looks something like this...
WU 5:30 (varies)
E 5:45
A
S 6:45-8 ish
E 8:15 or 8:30
A
S 9:45-11:15ish
E 11:30
A
S 1:15-3:15 (not always as long, but this nap is most likely to be the longest)
E 3:30
A
S 5:00-5:45 or 6:00 (this nap varies based on the previous nap...)
E 6:30
A
S 7:15 or 7:30 bedtime
10:00 DF

How do we get him to start taking 2 long naps?  Is it going to take several days of extra long A times until he starts napping longer early in the day?  I know the BW says not to go so much by clock times but to focus on the routine, but I'm not familiar with the process of changing his schedule. (My older one just seemed to naturally adjust around 3.5 mos...).

Also, is the catnap short because I should wake him or should he be doing it naturally?

[Layla]

You could work on extending his A times to 1:30 (so aim for him to be asleep by 1:30A time). The catnap is short usually by nature so if you're finding he's wanting to sleep longer here, it might be that he is wanting to go down for the night. He might not be quiet ready for 2 naps and catnap so you could keep the 3 naps + catnap but maybe you could try cutting the 3rd long nap to 1.5hrs so that the cn is a little earlier and he's going down earlier for the night. So hopefully the 30mins less from 3rd nap will add onto night sleep.

So something like this:
E: 5:45
A: till 7
S: 7- 8.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y
E: 8:30
A: till 10am
S: 10-11.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y
E: 11.30
A: till 1pm
S: 1-2.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y
E: 2.30
A: till 4
S: 4.00 (approx 45 mins)
E: 5.00 (cluster feed)
A: bath
S: 6.30 bedtime
E: 10 or 11pm dreamfeed

Once you're settled on this routine, you could then try pushing his day forward by adding 5-10mins to his A time throughout the day (again, starting with the morning nap) so that he's going to bed a little later and will start waking a little later too.

What do you think?