The 2-1 journey continues....

[ZacsMumme]

If i have to go to settle, which i hate doing as it seems to wake her more, i sit right next to the cot. I mean right next to it my face in leaning on the rails. She will stand and get excited too see me, I sshh and say sleepy time just for a few mins then i say nothing. I occasionally rub her back for a few secs but then i just sit in the dark in silence, not looking at her. She goes from being excited, to angry and shouts, then she tries to pat my head and sticks her arms out the rails to touch me but eventually she gets the point. She rolls around the cot, always right next to where i am and every few mins she looks over to see I'm still there but then she falls asleep. Takes a while but we get there and it does take a bit less time each time.

Yes, This kind of thing definitely if he wakes early. With Z I even PU and would hold to calm then back in cot - but he was a fully IS at this age so I could YK? At you min time ie 1 hr 15 leave the room and back in again with you WU from nap chat ie open curtain and say 'hey honey, time to get up' separate settling from getting him up.

I think maybe the biggest problem has become the rocking

[Joy-filled]

So 11.25 hrs after a 50 min nap is good enough?  I thought most babies need 13.5-14 hrs total sleep in a day to not be OT but he got 11 hrs the day before and 12 hrs now this past 24.  I thought the point of EBT was for him to make up for the last day sleep?  Since he isn't doing that I guess that's why I didn't think it was great that he woke at 5:25  .  Am I wrong?  Is it fine for him to sleep 11-12 hrs in total?  I thought he needs 11-12 at night and then 2-2.5 during the day? Perhaps the problem is me and my perspective?  Is he actually not OT and things are fine?  Maybe this is all just in my head and there isn't a problem?

Gail, has your technique ever worked to get her to fall back asleep after a short nap?  Or just to get her to fall asleep in the first place.  He falls asleep for his nap beautifully.  No issues.  No crying and he's asleep in 5-10 min.  He just can't transition through the sleep cycles because he's too OT (I think?).  Today he just screamed at me for 30 min.

[Eva's Mummy]

To be honest we've not really had short naps in ages and i never ever resettled since she was about 6 months as it drove me crazy. I just got her up and gave a CN later. But i do it for EW's and apart from the last couple of days it usually works but she is drooling like a mad woman just now so i'm guessing teeth are stoping her from falling back asleep at the moment.

You might be surprised, if you completely ignore him and dont even look at him. Just let him know you are there, i found it quite hard at the beginning as she was shouting but the more contact she got the more she thought i was going to get her up so shouted more. Silence seems to work better, put some ear plugs in, sit down and rest your head against the cot, close your eyes and try to relax  as long as he knows you are there for you no harm is going to come to him from shouting at you for a while.

[Joy-filled]

I'm glad you haven't had short naps in ages.  I'm hopeful someday we'll get there....just don't know when.  It's been a year  .

By shouting do you mean screaming.  Aaron honestly screams.  Top of his lungs, all out furious screaming and tears.  I think the less I do the better.  AS soon as I interact with him he thinks I'm picking him up.

[Eva's Mummy]

Yeah screaming honey. The less i do the better aswell or she does think i am going to get her up, i think it took us just over a week for her to get the idea, she still screams for a wee bit (jus to see if i'll get her up, or when i dont she should for her daddy as she always gets her up in the morning) but she settles now and just likes to keep and eye on me to make sure i'm there.

I dont think you are wrong, i do think A is OT but i dont thiknk he will make up for all his lost sleep over night. I may be wrong but i would image you are looking for a goos nights sleep 11hrs + to set him up for better less OT naps the following day IYKWIM.

[ZacsMumme]

Dyt WI/WO would be more effective for him now he is over 1?
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

Z was a screamer. Typically a good sleeper but during regressions he put up a good fight and WI/WO could take over an hour. But, after 1-2 nights he was better. My thought is once A an put himself back to sleep for naps he will sleep longer. Does he go down independently?

[ZacsMumme]

IME and reading the boards I think it can take 3 days or so for the body to cu on bad oT x

[Joy-filled]

Yes, he goes to sleep for the nap beautifully. 5-10 min no crying.

I've read the WI/WO link before and I don't see how I could do it with him as he never stops screaming.  The only way I think it could work is if I give him 2-3 min to try to calm before I walk in again.  Otherwise I'll walk out and literally walk back in immediately after and repeat this 100 times before the time is up.  Can I do WI/WO but let him scream a couple min before going straight back in?  I don't think he'll feel abandoned since I'm not staying out for that long...or does this idea horrify all the BWers out there?

[ZacsMumme]

I think at this age the scream can be a mad angry scream, not always an I need you now scream YK?
I struggled with Z so DH did wi/WO the first time (we were on hol It was the pits) but I was outside with DH helping identify the need cry from the angry one.

For us with Z over 1 it's a loss of control. So yelling/screaming from him was not 'I need you' but sobbing or sounding like the screaming was not just that but more emotional - we would WI/WO.

Don't go by the clock but do leave, take a breath, stop, Listen - count to 5 if you need to assess the crying. Tracey talks about SLOW and it's really helpful I think at this age. S.L.O.W. down (and Appreciate your Baby's Language)

[Joy-filled]

That makes total sense, thank you!  I would definitely say that his cry is more often than not a mad angry scream, not an I need you scream.  I think WIWO is the way to go.  I really don't see Aaron falling asleep if I'm in the room.  I'll give it a go and hopefully in a week or so he'll learn?

[ZacsMumme]

I would hope you see results on a week. Stick with your nap time, and try to get EBT if you need it. Yu are best to do WI/WO at NW too if you take this route. Given the NW are not from discomfort

Shiv....what do you think?

[Shiv52]

Yes I think WI/WO is the best way.  I do think the rocking is a prop and likely could be stopping him resettling himself.

What are thoughts on the EBT is he's not tacking on?

[ZacsMumme]

Mmm sorry yes I forgot about that...
2 options I guess...keep trying and do Wi/wo at EW or treat as NW. OR
Stick with Bt no matter what nap length...

[Loafie]

Hi CharK

I just wanted to say hello and let you that you're not alone with the whole resettling naps thing! I've found it hard to find anyone that has the same issues as we have and that is- a chronic short napper who had Ben been resettled his whole life! My LO is 16 months old and we still get short naps. He is an IS.  Goes down alone and quickly for bt and naps and unless is ill or teething, will sleep through. But naps are a different story:(
We are still in 2-1 madness which just does not seem to be getting easier simply because he will not nap long enough to be rested and its a vicious circle. But like you, I have decided to stop resettling. Im 22 weeks pregan and i think in the long term, it's not helping and I'm just going to suffer the shirt term consequences and leave him to learn to do it himself. 
Day one today so fingers crossed for both of us:)
I'm hoping a week will see some improvement.
I know he can do it since he's done 1.5 hrs afew times in his life without me resettling so I'm leaving it up to him now:)

Just a thought, I know my LO is older but I do think they understand alot more than what we think and I've decided to explain to him before naptime exactly what I'm doing and why. Ie ' mummy won't be helping you to go back to sleep now. You're a big boy. You can do it alone. Ill be right here but I'm not going to rock you anymore '. Sounds silly maybe but I think it worth explaining it:)

Anyhow.  Good luck!

[Joy-filled]

Thank you so much for posting, Loafie.  I'm going to follow along with your thread to see how things go for you.  I'm extra inspired to stick with not rocking now as I don't want to still be doing in at 16 months (or longer).  I guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to once he wasn't OT as the nap would naturally lengthen but I do think it's now a prop and if I don't stop he won't learn. 

I like your idea of telling him before the nap that I won't be coming in to rock him.  I agree they understand more than it appears.

As to the conversation about not tacking on....Shiv/Sara do you have an opinion on which option is better - 6:30 BT regardless of nap length or 6:00 "EBT" if short nap and treat EWUs as NWs and do WIWO as needed until 6:30 am?  I'm fine either way.  He woke up at 5:15 this morning and has been trying to put himself back to sleep for an hour now - no crying, just constantly rolling around, repositioning and trying to fall asleep for but unable to.  I'm really glad he isn't crying, though.