The 2-1 journey continues....

[Joy-filled]

Thanks Katherine, that is helpful!  I just thought that the A times should be more balanced on either end of the nap as I didn't think with a 6-6.5 hr A time before his nap that he'd fall asleep after his nap with a 4.5-5 hr A time.  I feared if he slept 12:30-2:30 he wouldn't fall asleep at 7 but if other LOs do it perhaps Aaron will?

So I'll stick with 12:30 set nap and 7:00 BT.  I'll only do the nap 15 min early on days he wakes at 6 or earlier (like today at 5:55 ) and BT 30 min early if nap is less than 1 hr 15.

Thank you all for the input!

[jessmum46]

I was surprised too Char but I think they just get so tired out by a long morning that they don't need as much A time in the afternoon.  Give it a shot xx

[Joy-filled]

Well dear friends, I am so joyed to say things are going extremely well.  I thought things would stay messy for another week or so but he's either catching up from a few really low total sleep days or his clock is setting and he's responding to the new routine.  Either way the last 2 days have been sooooo good!

Mon:
WU 5:55
Nap: 12:15-1:50 (1 hr 35 )
BT 7:00
Night - 1 NW, total 11.75 hr night sleep

Today:
WU 6:50 (woke soooo content and happy which never happens, he usually sits up and immediately cries) 
Nap: 12:35-2:30 (1 hr 55 -I had to wake him up!!!) 
BT ??

I'm hoping he'll still go down at 7:00 even though that will only be a 4.5 hr A time.  I think he just may still go down as he was soooo unimpressed when I woke him up.  Can you believe he was so mad at me then when I tried to pick him up out of his crib he pushed my hands away?! It took him 5 min before he let me take him out.  That's a switch hey?  Mad at me for taking him out of his crib instead of mad because I won't take him out! What a guy!  Just love him  .

Should I try 7:15 since he had a fab night last night, slept in a bit, and had a fab nap? Or stick with 7:00 BT?  I'm thinking try for 7 and see what happens?

[Shiv52]

I'd maybe go for 7.15. That's amazing. I am so glad things have settled a bit!!

[Joy-filled]

Sorry Shiv, I was editing while you posted.  Do you mind reading the last bit I wrote? Since he was so unhappy to be woken up I'm wondering if I try for 7.  Do you still think 7:15 though?

[Shiv52]

Yes I'd go for seven. Poor wee man!!

[Joy-filled]

(Shiv your DDs are beautiful!)

Things have gone quite downhill and I just want confirmation that I should stick with 12:30 set nap, cap the nap at 2 hrs at 7:00 BT today.  Since I last wrote he'd had a fabulous night and then 2 hr nap I woke him up from and he was very unimpressed.  BT ended up being 7:10 but he unfortunately woke up at 4:30 in the morning and slept on and off until 6:30 but most of that time he was awake . So maybe 10 hrs of sleep?  I'm not sure why this happened  . Perhaps I shouldn't have capped his nap at 2 hrs yesterday and he was therefore OT?  Or perhaps it's teeth?? Nap yesterday was then only 1 hr 3 min as he was OT from such a poor night of sleep. Then things got even worse last night...

I was out running errands so DH put Aaron to bed, aiming for 6:30 EBT.  Aaron has never done this but he absolutely refused to take anything for his teeth so DH had to put him down without. He then stood screaming for the next 35 min which he NEVER does for BT.  DH tried to go in a couple of times to again try to give him teething tablets but he would push DH's hand away and totally refuse.  DH even tried to rock to calm him but he would push his hands off of him (they normally have a fabulous relationship and Aaron feels totally comfortable with him). The only explanation we have for this behaviour is that he wanted me as he was very clingy yesterday but I was out running errands. Finally at 6:50 he lay down and for the next 1.5 hrs he would lie down for a few minutes then spring back up into a sitting/standing position and cry.  He didn't fall asleep until 8:30   .  So basically from 4:30 am until 8:30 pm he had 1 proper hour of sleep for his nap....not good at all.  Then this am he woke at 5:15.  Finally fell back asleep 6:45 but only for 20 min so WU at 7:05.  Maybe max 8.5 hrs night sleep  . I truly hope his molars come through after this as that seems to me the only explanation for this.  Do you agree? Anyway...stick with 12:30 nap today?

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun so hard isn't it! For me I'd probably bring nap forward a little with the disturbed night but hey I'm useless at the moment lol! Fingers crossed for teeth popping through x

[Shiv52]

So you've had two good days then a bad day.  Honestly I'd be tempted to just be consistent as I think changing things on him just makes the OT/UT cycle kick in when what you want is for his body to get used to sleep times. I think I'd get as close to half 12 as you can and see how it goes.

[jcsmom]

Hey Char. Hugs to you my friend. Here's what I think. Take it with a grain of salt. I think his 4:30 waking proved that he is low sleep needs. I think that a 2 hour nap after a 12 hour night was too much overall sleep. Then he had barely any sleep between 4:30am and his nap so he got OT again. It doesn't seem logical that after a 12 hour night and a 2 hour nap he could be OT. I really think he has proven over and over that he just doesn't need the average amount of sleep and does these Ut/OT loops as a result.

What if you planned a routine around what he is getting (12.5-12.75)?

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the input.  I did the nap at 12:25. I was hoping he'd catch up and do a mega nap today given how poorly the last 36 hrs have gone but at least he slept for 1 hr 9 min and then back asleep for another 21.  So 1.5 hrs after an 8.5 hr night.  Better than 1 hr 

jcsmom, I'd thought of your theory myself however these are the reasons I'm not confident that's what happened:

1) I think he was catching up on sleep since he'd had a couple of days with 12 hrs total sleep in a 24 hr period
2) He was in a very, very deep sleep when I woke him from his 2 hr nap and he was soooo grumpy that I woke him up and he would've slept even longer
3) He didn't fight BT that night which he usually does if he's UT.  He'll go down UT for his nap but not for BT (I think )

That being said, though, I'm not ruling out your theory as I do think it's plausible.  I'm just not sure if that's the case because of the 3 things I listed above, yk? Thoughts?



What do others think, though?  Should I make a routine based on 12.5-12.75 hrs total sleep?

[Shiv52]

I wouldn't change anything yet. Let see how he goes over the next few days. He may well need a later bedtime or minimum A time to bed but it's hard to know yet.

[Joy-filled]

That sounds like a good idea.  Stick with the plan for at least a few days to see if any new or continued patterns emerge. 

Thanks!

[Loafie]

Hi CharK!

I've been pretty quiet on the forum but have been following with interest your push in A times to see if it helps with your nap situation:)

I definately think you're in the right track and was going to suggest a while ago that you push am A time.  Also, for what it's worth that crazy NW and BT behavior ( especially the 4 am business ) is always teeth for us. I think our LOs are similar in the sense that they are good night sleepers ( I still have an EW on my hands but that's another story:)... We just finished cutting all molars and canines and for weeks , we had crazy stuff like that too...

Just to try and make you feel better:) this will pass. Can't promise the short naps will but the crazy night stuff , definately!!
With my LO, we are now at approx 5.30 am wu and 12.30 pm nap and still only 55
mins to 1hr 15 max naps. And I don't intervene anymore. It hasn't changed anything to nap lengths but I've just accepted that he's a short napper and this is all the sleep he needs.  Even though he wakes crying from all naps, he is fine within afew minutes and our nights are good so that's all I can ask for his mood is generally good too and I'm so sick of thinking he's ot , when I know he's not. He's very lsn and averages around 12.15-12.30 total sleep and always has...

Anyhow , good luck and hugs, you're doing great!!
X

[Joy-filled]

Thanks Loafie.  Your thoughts are quite helpful and make me think that perhaps Aaron really does only need 12.5/12.75 hrs of sleep.  I guess I just didn't think it was possible for it to be that low but if your DS is 12.15-12.30 then maybe....

The thing is that it would help me know what he needs if he was actually getting quality sleep, though.  If he slept 12.5 hrs of quality sleep (perhaps a 1.15 hr nap and a 11.15 hr night and then popped up awake in the morning, clearly saying he's done and had enough sleep) that would make it so much clearer.   However, he is consistently waking up early now and his sleep is sooooo poor from 5:00ish-6:30.  He just tries and tries and tries to fall back asleep but he just can't get there.  Lying still then repositioning over and over.  Occasionally he'll get a few min of sleep in there, it seems, but for the most part at least 90% of that time he's awake and trying to go back to sleep. For example, he's been doing this from 5:15 this morning until 7:00 now but has been 100% awake (but trying to sleep) since 6:15  .

Ah well, thanks for the hugs and thoughts.  I'll carry on with the plan for at least a few days longer and hopefully his sleep needs will become clearer.  Just a question, I decided at 7:10 to just get him up even though he was still trying to fall back asleep.  Right decision?