The 2-1 journey continues....

[jcsmom]

Hey there, just wanted to let you know that I think of you and A all the time. We seem to follow a very similar sleep journey. Unfortunately, I have done this exact same thing before with my DS who reminds me of A ( you should search some of my old posts for inspiration!). How did last night go? Do you think A is in a constant UT/OT loop? A friend of mine puts her DD down at 12:30 and she sleeps anywhere from 1.5-2.5 hours then bedtime is 8:30 no matter what time she wakes from her nap. And wu is 7am! She is happy with 10.5 at night. She doesn't even give OT a thought. Just wanted to let you know that you and A are in my prayers and hope that some day soon, you get his sleep sorted. Hugs.

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the thoughts and prayers.  I am absolutely certain his molars are bothering him as things are just silly.  Crying NW from 9:45-11:15 on Sunday night and then last night (Monday night) slept 7 pm -5 am then awake and crying until 6:20 this morning.  I know I'm supposed to do set WU but I decided to let him sleep until 7:15 as there's no way he'd cope until 12:00 set nap with a 5 am WU and only 10 hrs of sleep.  He was so unimpressed when I woke him up this am.  He is so tired and clingy these days, I have to assume it's his teeth. I hope it's okay I let him sleep in this morning  .  I think I'll shift his nap 15 min forward and do his nap after 5 hrs A time at 12:15.

[Joy-filled]

Sara I've seen you mention on other people's threads before that teething can cause LOs to be more tired.  Is the the case? Aaron has been so atypically tired for the past week+.  Never in his life would he yawn or show any signs of tiredness but for the past week, after 3-4 hrs A time he is doing things like almost dozing off in his high chair , laying his head down on the piano 1/2 asleep when my mom is sitting with him playing, and today he was at the home daycare and after 3 hrs A time almost fell asleep in the care providers arms as she was carrying him around .  This is not like him at all.  And he is managing to actually have a fabulous nap today and has been asleep for 2 hr 15 min  !  I know I'm not supposed to let him sleep more than 2 hrs but he's obviously tired.  I'm going to go wake him up now but I'm clearly veering way off of the plan today. I've never veered from the plan before (I've been ridiculously consistent with whatever plan we've had) - I really hope I'm doing the right thing. Not sure what is going on with him?  Do you think he's tired from teething?  Stick with 7:00 set BT even though he slept in until 7:15 this am AND has had an extra long 2 hr 15 min nap that ended at 2:45?  If I do 7:00 BT that will only be 9.5 hrs total A time in the day which would be a record low for him .

[jcsmom]

That's an epic nap! I am finding C is super tired with her teeth and crazy development going on. What did yesterday look like? Just wondering about the 5-6:30 wu if it was UT or OT? Did he have a long night/nap the day before? If so then you want to make sure he gets enough A time or he will always wake in the night then nap well. If not, then it could very well get him out of the OT mess you alway seem to be in. How much A time do you find he gets when he STTN? I know C needs 10.5 (or a bit more or less not 100%sure but around 10.5) to STTN.

[Joy-filled]

Yesterday:

6:30 WU (10.5 hr night as he had an NW that was at least 1.5 hrs long from 9:45-11:15)
12-1:25 (1 hr 25)
7:00 BT
Slept straight until 5:00. Crying until 6:20 then slept until I woke him from a deep sleep at 7:15.

So the 5-6:20 WU this am definitely wasn't because he was UT since he'd had a poor night the night before and a semi-okay nap.   I also know it wasn't due to UTness since he'd never fall back asleep if he was UT and he was so mad at me when I woke him up at 7:15.  Also, then after only a 5.25 hr A time this am he napped for 2 hr and 15 min which is nothing short of miraculous for Aaron and he was in a DEEP sleep when I woke him up from the nap.  So, the long EMW this am was either OTness or teeth or maybe both.

How much A time does he get when he STTN?  LOL.  Aaron has STTN'd maybe a dozen times in his whole life. but at least they've all happened in the last 2 months so that does mean things are improving  .  I looked back and total A times when he has SSTN'd have been after a day with 9.5 - 10 hrs 40 min with the average being 10.5 hrs.  I am RARELY able to get him to have 10.5 hrs A time, though.  It's usually 11-11.5 hrs due to EWs but since I'm doing set nap the A time is long in the am and since he naps short it's a long A time until set BT.  The issue definitely is not that he is not getting enough A time in the day.  The only consistent thing with Aaron is that better naps = better nights and better nights = better naps.  I just can't seem to make it happen consisntently, though.  His total sleep in a 24 hr period is quite variable, vacillating between 11.5 hrs and 13.5 hrs.  His average used to be 12.75 hrs broken but lately it's been more like 13.25 hrs broken. The nights he has STTN have most often been after a day when he's napped 1.5-2 hrs.  The days when he naps 1.5-2 hrs are when he sleeps until 7/7:30 so the A time is 5-5.5 hrs.  I think the 12:30 nap was too late for him since he was usually waking up between 6-6:30 so then he was giving an OT short nap of 1 hr 10ish.  Since moving it back to 12:00 it's been 1 hr 25-2 hr 15. 

Anyway, that was a lot of info that probably doesn't make any sense to anyone else  .  I think the best thing to do is stick with the 6:30 set WU, 12:00 set nap and 7:00 set BT but on days/nights like today/last night to feel free to be flexible as I think teething is throwing us for a real loop and I need to roll with it, otherwise he's going to be just too cranky, irritable and OT.  I think I'll do 7:15 BT today. Even though it's a low total A time I think he has needed the extra sleep as he's clearly shown he's tired. Agree?

[ZacsMumme]

I bet teeth! had a CN yesterday at 3 hrs A then normal length nap. Today he'd I'd 2hrs15 too and we have a top tooth cutting so yes, I'd leave A to sleep and go by cues for a few days. You may find a tooth comes in a few days and his nights may be rough YK?

We often get an ew or unsettled morning then a rough day then T is tired for a few days, then the same and a tooth pops

[jcsmom]

How was his night?

[Joy-filled]

I chickened out and was afraid he'd be UT last night so I aimed for a later BT to make sure he got enough A time in the day.  I'm constantly afraid of UT/OT loop .  He ended up sleeping 7:35 pm - 6:55 am with 2 brief EMWs and an NW at 11:40 but he was only mantra crying so I rolled over and went back to sleep as I was just too tired so I'm not sure how long he was awake but I'm guessing it wasn't too long.  So after a 2 hr 15 min nap I'm thrilled with an 11 hr night .  And his nap was 1 hr 35 today .  We are in a good position to shift his schedule forward in prep for DLS so I'm just going to roll with it and continue to BT later, hope for a later WU and then do the nap later. Once DLS happens next weekend I'll stick with 6:30 set WU, 12:00 set nap and 7:00 set BT.

And I felt one of his top molar starting to cut through the gum so yes indeed he has been teething!  I expect the next few weeks to be pretty silly as far as teething/sleep goes as I can feel a bump where all the molars are. I'd imagine each tooth will take its lovely time to finally cut through but oh well, eventually they'll pop out  .

[K-JDA]

Hi Char

Sounds like you are doing great given teething! Just wanted to drop off some support and follow along.

Can I ask you how you settle your NWs when either teething or not?

[ZacsMumme]

The molars are mean too! It's possible the canines are moving up as well and affecting sleep
Great last few days!

[Joy-filled]

Oddly but brilliantly things are going better than ever!   Yesterday night he slept 7:45 pm - 6:30 am night then slept on and off until 7:00. So another almost 11 hr night.  That day he fell asleep for a few min in the car at 11:00 again but still went down for his nap at 12:30.  He woke up twice during his nap for a few min but and I then had to wake him after 2 hrs as he had an appointment .  Then last night he slept 7:35-6:30 this am with no crying NWs at all! It's 6:40 am and he's still sleeping on and off (mostly off).  I was out for the evening but each time DH looked at the monitor he said A was awake and silently rolling around so I do think Aaron is waking up a fair bit due to his teeth, but he's SSing and not crying which is tremendous.  I'm guessing he's losing more sleep than we realize during the night and that's why he's so tired during the day and crashing for his nap.  But I'm not complaining! I'm tremendously proud of him!

KJM you asked how I settle NWs.  It took me forever to realize that assisting A when he wakes up at night (or for his nap) when he "I'm angry" cries/screams or mantra cries was not helpful.  It only kept him up and made him scream harder (that pertains to both being in the room or if I did WIWO) as he'd want me to pick him up.  I've realized that it is only if he is crying his "I need you" cry that it is helpful for me to go in and this cry happens quite rarely. It is distinctly different than his mantra cry or "I'm angry" cry.  When it does happen (which was once every few weeks before and even with him teething I've only gone in a few times this past week), I go in and pick him up and rock him for a few min to comfort him and remind him I'm there and then I put him back down and leave.  Sometimes he cries a touch when I leave, sometimes he doesn't, but he doesn't cry the "I need you" cry again after that.  That's how I know he needed me.  If it had been a mantra cry or angry scream, when I left he would've screamed furiously.  But since it was just an "I need you" cry, once I'd met his need he didn't need me anymore.  If he's teething and is having a long NW and clearly struggling with discomfort by moaning or mantra crying for a long time, then I do the same thing but also put a clove/olive oil mix on his gums as this numbs them and helps with the pain. 

[Shiv52]

Hope things are still going well xx

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the thought, Shiv.  Truthfully they're not going very swell but hey, one day things have to smooth out eventually .  And if I think about it, things are certainly better than the 1st six months of Aaron's life so I am definitely grateful for the progress that's been made.  I've been reminding myself that things could certainly be worse than they are! Remembering this has been helpful

[jcsmom]

That doesn't sound good  What's up? Why not post a few days of logs for some eyes on here to see. Hugs xx

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the offer to take a look at my logs but top molars are cutting through, bottom gums have been swollen for weeks, and SA has intensified as he has started home daycare .  So, I'm not too surprised that we're getting hysterical crying at BT some nights (I've even had to rock him to sleep at times but then of course he wakes up when I transfer to the crib  ), consistent EWs between 4:30-5:15 - usually he falls back asleep after 30-45 minutes but sometimes not.  When he does fall back asleep I've had to wake him up in the mornings from a deep sleep.  When he doesn't fall back asleep it's a pretty rough day and we get an OT 1 hr 10 min-ish nap from a super long am A time. 

Soon enough the teeth will be through and he'll have adjusted to daycare, though.  If at after that we're still getting EMWs I might start a new thread and post some logs but for now, I think things are as good as they're going to get.  Thanks ladies for trying to help.  One of these days I know my delightful little boy (and me) will STTN! And he truly is a delight.  I wouldn't trade him for anything as he brings us so much joy.  Children are such a gift!