The 2-1 journey continues....

[Joy-filled]

Sigh.....thanks for the well wishes Gail but today is not so good after all.  This boy's A time needs have been a mystery to me from day 1 and now apparently I'm back to not knowing what to do.  Something will work for 1 day or maybe 2 and then all goes off again and I'm lost again.

WU 6:35
A 4 hr 27 (PD at 4 hrs - he was very unimpressed.  Instead of his usual climbing out of my arms to go into the crib, he was crying and climbing out of my arms to not go into the crib.  He then rolled around for 20 min and finally fell asleep for...
S 10:57-11:31 (34 min  ).  Rocked and he slept another 5 min (11:40-11:45) and that was it.  Clearly UT.

Sigh.  Just when I think I've got him figured out and have a plan that will work....he throws another curve ball at me. I now think he was UT for his 1 hr 25 min nap yesterday and then for his 34 min nap today.  He must be caught up on sleep so within a day we've now entered the classic UT/OT cycle yet again.   I'm now once again at a loss as to what his A time needs are.  To add the confusion he was yawning, rubbing his eyes and super clingy/fussy all am today.  I really don't know what to do as now his A time needs seem like they more likely than not are too high to fit 2 naps in without keeping us in the rut of OTness we were in which forced us to push to the 1 nap when we did.  Now I'm thinking I have to go back to 1 nap but maybe try it again this time with the EBT???

(Gail, isn't Eva only 1 week older than Aaron?  Aaron was born August 22nd)
(Zoe, I sure hope you didn't have to work today!  Those EWUs are so tiring!)

[Eva's Mummy]

So it is Eva was 14th, i was thinking we were a month older.

Well why don't you start gently again and go 4.5hrs A time nap then if good nap 4.5hrs to BT if bad nap, try for a 20min CN then 2.5hrs to BT after that. Or vice versa if he wakes at 6 and you can get a UT nap 4hrs after WU cap it to 20min the do long nap 2.5 hrs later then 4.5 to BT so,

WU 6
CN 10 - 10:20
Nap 12:50 - 14:20/14:50
BT 18:50 / 19:20

What do you think?

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the input Gail, but I'm not sure as today he nearly did a 4.5 hr A time and he still short napped so I think he needs more than 4.5 but not sure how much more 

The other tricky thing is that if he wakes at 6 and it has to be a 2 nap day, I can't give him an UT short nap in the am because he will still give me a short nap in the pm.  He will not take a long nap in the pm no matter what. 

How about this, try 4.75 hr A time (hopefully that's long enough?).  If he naps less than 1.5, try to extend by rocking.  If it doesn't work to extend, then do a 20-30 min CN 3.5/3.75 hr later, then 2.5 hr to BT.  If he naps 1.5 hr or more than do 5.25 hr to BT? So

WU 6:30
Nap 11:15-12:45
BT 6:00

OR

WU 6:30
Nap 11:15-12:25
Nap 4:10-4:30
BT 7:00

If WU is 6:15 or earlier I think I'll have to do a 2 nap day unless he somehow naps 2.5 hr or something. What do you think?

or......try set nap 11:30, set BT 6:00 and see if he copes better with the set nap having an earlier BT??  He starts to transition to daycare in 2 weeks...

[Joy-filled]

Well, 25 min pm nap.  This boy won't sleep longer in the pm no matter how tired he is . Rocked him for 30 min to try to get him to go back to sleep but no luck.

I should add that today I spoke with home daycare provider today and it was clear to us that the only option on daycare days is to do a set nap at 11:30.  He simply will not do a pm nap in the play pen at her place, that's clear.  He will just scream and she can't have that as it will be awful for her, him and the other kids.  The only option on daycare days is 1 nap, so...we will be doing a set nap on daycare days at 11:30 starting in 2 weeks. Do you agree that's the best plan for daycare?  She's flexible with what time the nap will be but it's clear Aaron will not do a 2nd nap anywhere but in the car and she can't do that so it will have to be a 1 nap day so it might as well be at a set time, I think?

Sara, what A times was Z doing at this age again?  I seem to recall you saying he did 4.5 hr until his first nap but I do think that's too short for Aaron.  Or was Z doing higher A times than that?

[Eva's Mummy]

oh honey he is a puzzle your wee Aaron. If daycare can only do a set nap at 11:30 then i would be tempted to do the same you can always go 15 mins early on non daycare days xxx

[Haribo2012]

I always try and replicate nursery days and nap times give or take 15 mins! Have survived the EW lol went to my mums so DS was happy all day x

[ZacsMumme]

Hun Z was on 4.5-5 hrs but he did 2-3 hrs nap, often 2.5-3. He also never did a good pm nap ever. so if the am was a bust then the pm was always still a CN. if Z short napped I could often APOP him back to sleep with a bf to cuddle then back in the cot!

I'm thinking that because his nights are so much better maybe he can do more A. Remember though, just because 1 day was a bust doesn't mean that you need to change it up quite yet. There is developmental leap around this age too, and teething. Both mess with sleep.

How many days are daycare days? - if it's every day during the week then I think you have little choice but to replicate it, and keep pushing. Do you feel ebt is now more of a possibility? I think he will cope better if he will accept it and pull better nights YK?

[Joy-filled]

2-3 hrs would be a dream!  I wish I could put Aaron back in his crib after he wakes up but I know he'd wake right back up and that would be the end of it.  So I just rock and rock and rock  .

Daycare is every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday.  I'm hoping EBT is now more of a possibility - I'm doing EBT tonight (PD at 6, it's 6:15 and he's currently rolling around with wiredness, pushing his face into the mattress).  I guess this will be a test to see if it works.  Hopefully he accepts it and as you say start to regularly pull better nights and then cope better with A times.

I do think he was UT for his nap today because the night was better. He's always been that way - better night = bad naps.  Bad night = possibly better naps (but not necessarily).  If you think I should go with A times still and not set nap, what A time do you suggest if his night is poor (less than 11?)?  If it's good?

[ZacsMumme]

Well given 4 hrs worked well for catching him up I'd stick with that or maybe 4hrs15 after a bad night, but also try to keep him in the cot a little if he EW. Maybe after a really great night 4hrs20-30 ? Does he give tired signs at all? (Other than falling asleep on breast ) if so you may be able to use these - you just ignore them before 4 hrs YK?

I think at this stage I did A times but a cut off as to when I would pd for the nap ie I wouldn't pd before 11am even if bad night. (WU was typically 6.30 if earlier I tried to keep Z in the cot and counted A from 6.30) but then if he had a good night or slept later, I did 4.5/5 hrs A. I can't remember exactly what A but I think closer to 5 by 12 mths but he was solidly on 1 nap by then

[Joy-filled]

As for tired cues....not very helpful/reliable.  For example, he yawned and rubbed his eyes all am today but then UT napped  after a 4 hr 27 min A time  .   

I'm not sure 4 hrs worked well for him to catch up - he woke after 27 min (OT napped) and I had to rock him to extend it.  But I honestly think that's just because he was incredibly, incredibly OT.  I think I'll try 4 hr 15 after a bad night and see how that goes unless he's had a couple bad days/nights in a row and then I think 4 hrs is a good plan.  I'm also wondering 4 hr 20-30 after a good night is too low since he did 4 hr 27 min today after a great night and he UT ( ) short napped at 34 min. Perhaps 4 hr 40/45 would be better after a good night?

[ZacsMumme]

could the bad nap have been a 1 off? teething? developmental? its probably sticking it out 1 more day to see hat happens..

[jcsmom]

Hey Char,
I am so sorry that you are still struggling. I was hoping that when I came back from my holiday, he would be sleeping great for one nap. I have no advice, just hugs. I went through this with my DS and am going through it again with my DD. I don't create sleepers that follow any sort of pattern.

Is it at all possible that he is way way OT at 4 hours A? Many, many other websites suggest a first A of 3 or less at this age even. Could all this fighting naps and waking at night and short naps be OT and not UT? If he is fussy and clingy and ear and eye rubbing way before his nap does that not mean he is tired way before you put him down? Just throwing that out there for you to ponder. I wish I had the answer for you. big hugs my friend. xx

[Joy-filled]

Welcome back!  I hope your holiday was refreshing.  At this point I think anything is possible.  He doesn't usually eye rub and ear pull, just sometimes lately (like yesterday all am) . I think the clingy/fussiness is a result of a rapid onset of SA that developed about 2.5 weeks ago, but it very well could be OTness as that was right in tandem with trying the 12/7:30 set nap/BT.  Not sure?

Wonderful news though is that he tacked on last night!!!  Slept 6:30-6:55 with 3 brief NWs all less than 5 min  .  That's 13.25 hrs in a 24 hr period!  He hasn't had more than 12.5 hrs total in weeks, so I'm thrilled!  I think this means I can do EBT! 

I think the reason the set nap didn't work out is because I didn't do EBT.  I was so certain he wouldn't tack on and was so afraid of 5/5:30 WU that I did set BT.  I now think things wouldn't have got so out of hand if I'd done an earlier EBT.

Sara, it is possible yesterday was a 1 off so I'll try 4.5 hrs today as he had a great night and I'll see how he does.  If he does an UT nap again, then I'll know he needs more.  As for teeth - it's possible but he won't let me look or feel inside so I'm not sure.  He's had 3 on top and 3 on the bottom for about a month now so he's well due for the "sister" tooth on the top and bottom, but he isn't really shown any signs of teething.

[Eva's Mummy]

Woo hoo what a brilliant night. I think that is a good sign that he has still been OT. At least you know you can use EBT on daycare days, you might even get really brave and use SEBT if needed 

[Joy-filled]

SEBT would surely take bravery!

Not sure what to make of this today, though.  I just don't know what it will take for him to get a good long nap in?:

WU 6:55 (12.25 hr night sleep)
A 4 hr 30 (was rubbing his eyes from 4 hrs onward, PD at 4 hr 20)
S 11:25-12:30 (1 hr 5 min), tried to rock but no luck.  Happy boy not interested in getting more sleep.

UT?