The 2-1 journey continues....

[Joy-filled]

Things are starting out fairly rough, I'd say.

Yesterday after a poor night with 10.40 hrs night sleep he did a 1 hr nap which I was able to extend for 26 min by rocking. 

This morning saw a return of the screaming NWs which seem to happen when he is particularly OT.  Woke at 5 am screaming so I decided to rock instead of WIWO as he clearly needed comfort.  Calmed him and PD in crib.  Asleep 5:20 but only for 5 min, then awake for 5, asleep for 5, awake for 10, etc. until 6:20.  So only 10.5 hrs total night sleep which set us up for another poor OT nap today.  Only 48 min  .  Rocked and he slept another 24  . 

Will do 6:00 BT tonight and hope for a better night.

[Shiv52]

Hope you get a better night xx

[Joy-filled]

I have to be honest....sometimes I think I'm going to go completely crazy.  Things are starting off horribly tonight.  He fell asleep with some crying for BT (which never happens) as he was so ridiculously OT but fortunately it didn't take him too long to fall asleep.  However, 28 min later he woke screaming.  It is now 30 min later and he is still screaming.  The only thing that will make him stop screaming is if I take him out of the crib and hold him.  This is not like him at all.  He is so good at SSing and is totally an independent sleeper except when he gets so outrageously OT like he is right now and then he screams inconsolably.  WIWO doesn't work because he screams and screams.  GW isn't appropriate nor would it help because all other times he doesn't need me - he's an independent sleeper.  The only option is to rock him to sleep and hope he doesn't start screaming again when I PD again.  So I tried that after 15 min of useless WIWO - f course he calmed as soon as took him out of the crib but he was so wired he couldn't fall back asleep so I had to PD in the crib again so I wasn't rocking for a straight hour while he was wide awake.  The screaming has now been going on for another 20 min.  I don't know what to do? 

[ZacsMumme]

Is he teething?

[Joy-filled]

I knew that question would come up and I meant to say that I really don't think he's teething.  No signs of it at all.  No chewing on things, not refusing food, etc.  If I try to put my finger in his mouth to feel if his gums are swollen he won't let me so I don't know of any other way to tell if he is.  I think he's just plain super OT as in the past (such a few weeks ago when I first tried the set nap) he has responded to the really long A times with screaming NWs.  No teeth sprouted after those screaming NWs so I think they're due to extreme OTness, but maybe I'm wrong. He's had 3 teeth on top and 3 on the bottom for it must be at least 2 months now. 

After 50 min he finally stopped screaming but it then took him another 45 min of quietly rolling around, trying to fall asleep before he finally fell asleep.  A 1 hr 35 min NW and it's only 8:30 pm.... this poor boy is struggling.  But I guess that's just how it goes and hopefully he'll adjust soon by napping longer and not waking up at night or early in the am.

[ZacsMumme]

Ok so lets take a step back.
Has he ever napped well? If so when and what age/A times
Also...before chronic OT set in with the set nap/BT what nap lengths were you getting? - 1 hr or so?

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun sounds like the pits right now! Can hugely sympathise we are having bad times too....!!

[Joy-filled]

THanks for the hugs Zoe.

Only had 1 other NW that I know of but I don't know how long it was as DH slept on the couch with the monitor so I could sleep, but DH slept through it as he wasn't crying hard.  5:55 WU this am so I'd say max of 10 hrs sleep after 1.25 hrs day sleep yesterday.  Not good. This am we're going to the home daycare for a couple of hrs together to start the transition.  Extra stimulation in this state is not a good plan but what can we do?

Sara, if I have time later today I'll look back on the last 360 + days of logs.  Based on my memory I think he had a week of good naps twice in his life but I can't remember when exactly that happened or what the A times were.  He has been a horrible napper/sleeper his entire life  .  But I'll look back and let you know when we had those 2 good weeks.

[Shiv52]

Hugs Char xx

[Joy-filled]

Alright, in answer to your question Sara - here's a summary of the last year of life with Aaron (who I truly do love to pieces, but it's been a rough road with sleep) - I have spent hours and hours doing shush/pat, PUPD, W2S (HTTJ), and driving/rocking when completely desperate for this eternally chronically OT boy to sleep:

I ready the Baby Whisperer books before Aaron was born so we started "sleep training" from Day 1 - never nursing to sleep, and doing our utmost to have him fall asleep independently in his crib using shush/pat and a pacifier as much as possible.  At times we were desperate and would rock, drive or let him sleep in a chair as he preferred being upright - but rarely did we do this as we didn't want to have to break bad habits down the road.  He suffered from gas, so when we finally figured that out and got him probiotics that cleared the gas up but the sleep improved only slightly.  We would shush/pat for hours and hours.  He averaged 10-12.5 hrs of sleep in a 24 hr period so he has been chronically OT from practically the time he was born. Eventually shush/pat worked to get him to learn to fall asleep independently 50% of the time, however he would maybe have a decent 1st nap 75% of the time and the rest of the naps were regularly 30-45 min (unless in the car or stroller).  I tried every W2S method to extend naps with minimal success.  At 4 months we started PUPD and literally did it for 6 weeks straight to try to extend naps and help him learn to SS for NWs. He would simply scream and scream and scream.  It was awful. 

At this point my DH found this forum and signed me up so we could get some help as we were completely exhausted and burned out.  That's when I learned about APOP and OTness and realized that Aaron was seriously OT and that's why he was short napping - some lovely ladies helped me realize I needed to help Aaron sleep.  So I started to rock to extend his naps to get him out of his OT rut.  The BW mods tried to help us find A times that would help him stop short napping but we never got there.  On a rare day we'd get 2 decent naps in a day but more often than not we'd only get 1 half decent nap a day no matter what suggestions were given - and I always followed the suggestions consistently.  At times we would drive him around to help him catch up and when we'd do this, he'd always sleep 1.5-2 hr - loved the car. 

Unfortunately we continued to regularly need to do shush/pat to help him settle for naps, BT and NWs.  It would often take a very, very long time as he was OT and unable to settle to sleep on his own.  At 7 months I was doing 3 hr A times (as suggested by BW mods) and still getting 30 min naps for most naps, still needing to extend by rocking.  I decided to pull back his A times to 2.25 for the 1st A, 2.5 for the 2nd A and then 3 hrs to BT to see if that would help and for 1 beautiful week NWs decreased dramatically and naps were 1.5-2 hrs!  It was glorious.  But then we started to get EWUs as his A time from the day wasn't enough so I tried to slightly bump the A times and we went right back to 30 min naps for ~75% of his pm naps, in fact often 20-30 min now (am nap was 1-1.5 hr 50% of the time).

At 8 months old I then hired a sleep consultant as I was desperate.  She suggested decreasing his A times.  This helped to make his morning nap fab everytime but the pm nap continued to be 20-30 min and was preceded by great amounts of screaming. I then came back on this forum to get help and I've been here practically every day since then. HIs short naps kept us in the 3-2 transition for literally months as the lovely mods tried to help us find A times that would work for Aaron.  Nothing worked.  Morning nap was usually okay (average of 1 hr 15 min) but pm nap was a bust 99% of the time.  Kept trying to bump the am A time to see if am nap would lengthen as the theory was that we were in an UT/OT cycle but it didn't work.  Am nap was rarely more than 1 hr 20 and pm nap was always 20-30 min no matter what.

Fast forward a couple months of struggle and enter the 2-1 transition (we practically went from the 3-2 to the 2-1 transition weeks apart). And here we remain.  Before we went to set nap the first time a month ago I was doing 4.5-4.75 hr A time and getting 1-1.25 hr am nap.

I am feeling completley overwhelmed right now.  After a terrible night with 10 hrs of sleep at best, Aaron slept for a pathetic 50 min today.  I didn't rush in because this rocking prop is getting ridiculous but he was screaming so I had to go in.  I rocked him for 35 min trying to get him to fall back asleep but he was so wired/upset it just wasn't happening.  I am so frustrated, overwhelmed and feeling very hopeless as it has been a year of waiting for things to get better and trying to do everything right but nothing working.  He has been chronically OT for months and I'm struggling to keep believing that someday it will be better.  Please help... tonight is going to be rough.  Should I do a SEBT or stick with 6:00 EBT?

By the way, if anyone is still sticking with me....thank you.  I wish I had more happy updates along this journey but I guess we're just not there yet.  Thanks for having hope that we'll get there .

[jessmum46]

Big (((hugs))) Char x

[ZacsMumme]

Oh Hun (((hugs))) these kiddos are so cheeky

So, given you always had a better morning nap was the A time typically high, low or avge for his age during this time. Ie when the 1hr15 naps were occurring?

Are your nights better on a better nap day? - I 'think' you said he doesn't cope well with OT?

Now that he is tacking better, I think you want to encourage the longer night and do EBT if you can and shoot for the longer night 6-6 rather than 7-6 or 7-5.30 YK?

With this in mind....I guess I'm wondering if now he is older and after all this changing he just needs a week or two or consistency. By this I mean what shiv mentioned. Set nap and BT (both earlier ie 11.30 and 6.30 WI EBT after bad nap) no rocking, if he gets upset when he wakes and wont resettle just sit in his room and wait till it's been 1hr15 to encourage the longer nap. Or try sitting close and shhing or humming. I woder if the rocking has actually be me a prop.

[Shiv52]

With this in mind....I guess I'm wondering if now he is older and after all this changing he just needs a week or two or consistency. By this I mean what shiv mentioned. Set nap and BT (both earlier ie 11.30 and 6.30 WI EBT after bad nap) no rocking, if he gets upset when he wakes and wont resettle just sit in his room and wait till it's been 1hr15 to encourage the longer nap. Or try sitting close and shhing or humming. I woder if the rocking has actually be me a prop.

This^^^^
I think earlier set nap and use EBT if you need to.

Hugs xx

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the hugs Katherine and Sara.  Katherine was J as poor a sleeper as Aaron has been since he was born?  I know things are better for you now and I just would like some hope that it is possible he will someday sleep better  .

So, given you always had a better morning nap was the A time typically high, low or avge for his age during this time. Ie when the 1hr15 naps were occurring?

When the nap was 1 hr 15 A time was either at or above average as the theory kept being that he was UT.  However, bumping the A's never lengthened the nap - almost always kept it the same or made it shorten.  No A time ever seemed "right" for him.

Are your nights better on a better nap day? - I 'think' you said he doesn't cope well with OT?

Yes, nights are better on a "better" nap day.

Now that he is tacking better, I think you want to encourage the longer night and do EBT if you can and shoot for the longer night 6-6 rather than 7-6 or 7-5.30 YK?

He doesn't seem to be tacking, actually. A couple of times last week he did 11.5-12.25 hrs but this week, when he has desperately needed to tack on we've been getting NWs and EWUs instead.  For example, after only sleeping 50 min yesterday and a 6:10 BT last night we had 5:25 WU this morning  .

I woder if the rocking has actually be me a prop

Rocking is definitely a prop.  It has to stop because the daycare provider can't rock him to extend his nap.  It will make the OTness somehow even worse in the short term but I do think for long term reasons I have to stop.  I will try sitting beside his crib today instead (as I will definitely get an OT short nap due to the EWU) and stay there until 1 hr 15.  He is going to scream and scream at me.  Do I put my hand on him, talk to him, look at him, lie him back down, or just sit there and shhh?  Do I interact with him or not? He has always found it infuriating, interrupting, disrupting and frustrating for me to be present so I am quite concerned he will not fall back asleep even if I do this for weeks and weeks.  I'm willing to give it a try but can you give me a bit more guidance on how to do it?

[Eva's Mummy]

Hi honey, i keep reading along hoping for great news for you and Aaron. I'm sure it will come. I know he woke early today but he still slept for 11hrs 15mins, that's quite good going. I think i am resigning myself to EW of 5:30 at the moment until she can cope with longer A times to make BT later. So theoretically when Aaron does move BT to 7:30 with a night sleep of 11hrs 15mins that would give you a 6:45WU which is actually quite good. I think its just a tricky time, they need the EBT to allow them to have more night sleep. We have started doing on a 5:30ish WU a CN of 20mins at 9:00/9:15 then long nap at 12/12:15 then 4.5/5hrs to BT. That seems to be helping lately. 

If i have to go to settle, which i hate doing as it seems to wake her more, i sit right next to the cot. I mean right next to it my face in leaning on the rails. She will stand and get excited too see me, I sshh and say sleepy time just for a few mins then i say nothing. I occasionally rub her back for a few secs but then i just sit in the dark in silence, not looking at her. She goes from being excited, to angry and shouts, then she tries to pat my head and sticks her arms out the rails to touch me but eventually she gets the point. She rolls around the cot, always right next to where i am and every few mins she looks over to see I'm still there but then she falls asleep. Takes a while but we get there and it does take a bit less time each time.

Hugs to you and Aaron xxx