Author Topic: Almost 6 month old, need some help with night wakings please  (Read 970 times)

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Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Almost 6 month old, need some help with night wakings please
« on: August 23, 2013, 15:44:46 pm »
Hello!

DS2 is almost 6 months old (Sept 5) and has never been a good sleeper.  He is MPI and has bad reflux.  Reflux and gas have always disrupted his sleep, but sleep has seemingly improved (from horrendous to just bad/not great now lol), so I'm not sure if the NWs are being caused by stomach discomfort, teething or something else.

M can put himself to sleep if he is drowsy when put down, which usually is the case because most of the time he will not catnap before BT and is tired by then.  He can get through sleep cycles in the first half of the night.  For naps, he usually needs minimal patting/sshh to get to sleep (unless OT) and can get through his sleep cycles.  Naps have been good, lasting for about 1.5 hrs each.

He had been waking every 1-3 hours, sometimes eating, sometimes not, typically having a hard time settling again so I would have to assist.  It could take up to 2 hours for him to go back down.  That seems to have gone away (I pray that I am not jinxing myself).  So the night now ends up going something like this -- BT at 7 (eats 5-7 oz) and then wake to eat somewhere between 11 and 12, eats 6oz.  The NWs after that are habitual in that they follow the same pattern, but they are not at the same time iykwim.  For example, if he wakes at 11:30 to eat, he will wake around 1:30.  He can usually be settled by my voice alone (through the monitor that has a microphone) at this first NW after the NF.  Then he usually will wake at 2:30 and I need to go in and pat and shh and sometimes pick him up.  I don't rock him, I just quiet him and then go back to pat/shh.  If he were to feed at 10:30, he would be up at 12:30 and then 1:30.  If he were to feed at 12, it would be 2 and 3.  Not exactly on the dot, but pretty close to 2 hrs and then 1 hr later.  The next waking is almost always between 5:20 and 5:45.  I feed him then, but only 3oz because even that amount affects what he eats in the morning (I had to eliminate NFs because he was taking in most of his calories at night presumably because it was more comfortable with the reflux, however, he's doing better with taking larger feeds during the day).  Sometimes he goes back to sleep until 6/6:30, sometimes he's up for the day.

To summarize the night looks something like this:

BT 7
NW/NF  somewhere between 11-12, he usually settles pretty easily after this but sometimes it takes 1-2 tries
NW 2 hours after NF, 1-2 - usually settled by voice
NW 1 hour after last NW, 2-3, needs shh pat, sometimes picking up, usually takes a number of tries.  Have reduced the length of the NW to 30 minutes or less versus 1-2 hrs
NW between 5:20 and 5:45, E 3oz, sometimes doesn't finish the bottle, sometimes up for the day, sometimes back to sleep until 6/6:30

Believe it or not, this is way better than what had been going on. I'm not looking for it to be perfect, but maybe a touch better? :)

I don't think it is OT because I think OT NWs occur during the first half of the night and we get those when he is OT! It seems like it is discomfort because when I observe him when he first wakes he is squirming in his crib like he's trying to get comfortable.  When he can't be settled, it's the same thing.  Usually he will not burp during this time or pass gas.  With that said, it could be that the gas bubbles break up when I try to burp him or bicycle his legs and that's why he goes back to sleep.  I feel like it's either his teeth or gas, but not sure. I think I see two white lines on his bottom gums, but I remember with DS1 that didn't necessarily mean that the teeth were imminent.  He is chomping during the day and seems to get irritable as a result, but not sure if that would just affect the second half of the night.

I guess I'm asking if it seems like it's discomfort to you all or if it's that he doesn't know how to put himself back to sleep at these times.  And also, has anyone seen a pattern like this where the LO wakes at habitual intervals but not habitual times?

TIA for any thoughts! :-*
--Nicole
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Offline Layla

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Re: Almost 6 month old, need some help with night wakings please
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 23:29:28 pm »
Could you please post your routine? If he's fighting the catnap, have you adjusted his A times so that he isn't awake for too long before bedtime, which can also cause NWs.

I am not familiar with MPI and reflux but I will get someone else to take a look for you but on top of discomfort, it may also be a routine issue :)



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Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Re: Almost 6 month old, need some help with night wakings please
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 11:04:33 am »
Thanks, Layla.  Sorry it has taken me so long to get back.  Things have been awful here :(

So we had a really good night Friday -- down at 7:15, NF midnight, NF 4, up for day at 6:15.  I had some hope after that, but last night and Saturday night were atrocious with NWs every 1-3 hours and some of them lasting for 1+ hrs.  When I say 1+ hrs, it's not that he's wide awake in his crib or even crying that whole time, but I'll settle him in his crib, think he's asleep and then anywhere form 5-15 minutes later he's up again fussing/crying and we repeat the process.  Last night, I picked him up and tried to get him to pass gas in case that was the issue, and he did, but it didn't help.

I see two white lines under his gums where his bottom teeth will come in, but I can't remember from DS1 if that meant the teeth are cutting or if those white lines are always there until they come in.

Here is the routine we tend to follow:

WU 5:30-6:30
E 7:45 2.5 oz
S 9:00-9:30
WU 10:30-10:50 (yesterday the nap at to be extended at the 45 min mark, more times than not he can do it on his own though)
E 11 4-5oz
S 1:30
WU 2:30-3:00
E 3:00 6oz
catnap 50% of the time, if I can get one it usually meAns that the 2nd nap was short
if there is a catnap it's at 4:30 or 5 for 30 min
E 6:45-7 5-7oz
S 7-7:30 (on the later end if catnap, if not, on the earlier end...sometimes before 7)
NF anywhere from 10-12 -- try to push this out to the later end of the range, but sometimes can't.  I don't think when he wakes earlier than 11:30 that it's definitely hunger that is waking him even though he'll take a good feed iykwim
NFs multiple times throughout the night - I will feed him again if it is 4+ hrs after last feeding, but most of the time he will only take 3oz at this feed.  If I give it to him at 5/5:30am, he would take more, but I cut it to 3oz so not to interfere with his eating during the day.  The only reason why I have the 7:45 feed in there is so that he doesn't wake up from hunger during nap.

The A from 3 to 7 is very long for his age, I know, but I'm afraid 6pm is too early a BT and plus DS1 goes down around 6:45 and eats dinner at 6.  I can rejigger DS1' schedule if need be I guess.

I should also mention, catnap or not, DS2 cries from about 5-7 every night.

I think I am probably headed back for the CRC board (I have a thread going there).  I thought that the reflux was getting better, but as I read what I am writing I think discomfort is at least partially responsible here (the squirminess and difficulty settling at the NWs).  Interestingly though, he generally sleeps ok in the first half of the evening.

Thank you for your help.  I am very depressed.  I haven't slept in 6 months and have been trying so hard to make this work.  DH doesn't help.  He takes the first NF, but if DS2 won't go back down I have to get up.  We are going on vacation on Wednesday and I don't even want to go because I know it is going to be a disaster at night (and probably during the day too).  I guess it's not like I can mess up anything good because we have nothing good going at night, but this is getting really unmanageable. 
--Nicole
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Offline TB9

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Re: Almost 6 month old, need some help with night wakings please
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 19:01:30 pm »
Hugs Nicole

When dd1 was teething and the white line/spot showed up the tooth cut through within a week or so.  I would say if you can see the white line then teething is definitely contributing to the nws.  We are goinb through the same thing right now with cn refusal.  I find I need to keep her as close to 3hrs as possible, even if she is cranky, then max 3.5hrs before bed.  We had a 4hr A last night before bed because we were out for dinner and it really messed her up sleep wise :(

Dd is also teething and I know by the end of the day she is just a wreck, and she has a really hard time managing the drool, so im sure its the same for your little guy.  Have you tried tylenol yet?  I try to wait to use it until I see the white spot before giving meds, but dd really needed tylenol today, and the difference was amazing.

More (((hugs)))  :-*  Have you talked to your doctor about your feelings?  Remember to take care of your self too.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 19:17:09 pm by Tinkerbell99 »