10 month old has been waking at night

[bohbizzie]

My almost 6-month old had been more or less sleeping through the night for the past 1.5 - 2 months (from 7/730 - 7am, with 1 DF). About 3 weeks ago, he came down with the flu and started waking many times over the course of the night - I BF him each time he woke. He's been well for the past week, but the NWs continue, usually about 3-4am and we'll be up trying to soothe him for 1-2hours before he sleeps again till 7am. I've resisted BF-Ing him at night and instead use the pacifier and patting to soothe him.

I still try as much as possible to stick with the routine posted below, in the hope that one day he'll go back to sleeping through the night. Of the past 3 weeks, he slept from 7-7 on 2 nights (no variation from normal routine on those nights)

How old is your child?
25 weeks (a week shy of 6 months)

What’s his/her daily routine?

WU: 7
E: 7-730
A:
S: 9-11 (1.5-2hr nap, but we usually have to pat him to help him transition to next sleep cycle)

E: 11/1130 (BF)
E: 12 (Solids)
A:
S: 130-3 (30mins - 1.5hrs)

E: 3/3.30 (BF)
A:
S: 4.00-5.00 (30-45mins)
E: 5.30 (90ml formula)
E: 6 (Solids)
A: Bathtime by 630
E: 645/7, followed by
S: 7-730

DF:11-1130

What’s nap routine?

Bring into darkened room or put into ergo carrier if out, stick pacifier in and pat to sleep. Put down in crib once eyes close.

How long are naps?

30mins - 2hrs. Naps are shorter when outdoors

What's bedtime routine? Time?

Bath, change, breastfeeding then sleep. If he falls asleep on the breast ill unlatch him and put him in his crib. If he doesn't and starts whining when on the breast, I'll put him back in his crib (sometimes with a pacifier if he opens his mouth) and he will toss and turn anywhere from 5mins - 40 mins before sleeping.

Do you bottle or breastfed??

Both. Mostly BF, except for 530pm feed and DF

How much? or how long?

If bottle, 4ozs (he won't take anymore). If BF, about 5-8 mins on one side. (I have only breastfed on one side since the supply on my other side is extremely low/nonexistent)

If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)

As above.

How many wakes per night?

1-3

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?

Starts off whimpering then escalates after awhile. Occasionally able to put himself back to sleep within 5 mins, but if that doesn't happen, his cries escalate and he starts tossing and turning and kicking his legs frantically.

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?

Fussing or crying, depending on when I go in. I usually don't go in too soon, until it escalates to crying.

What have you tried to settle??

Pacifier, and patting although I have to almost pin him down to pat him because he keeps tossing and turning. I try not to feed him because its not the hungry cry. Sometimes, when I've tried for 1-1.5 hrs and he can't settle, my husband will go in and do the same thing and can get our son to sleep within 15-20 mins,

What do you do for A time and how long is it?

Bath, eating solids, tummy time, jumper to and play gym, walks around the park and shopping malls, TV sometimes.

In mornings, A time is about 2hrs. In afternoons, 2-3 hrs.

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?

No teething, but he has been trying to sit.

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)

Yes. Feed him veggie at 12pm (2tbsps) and cereal at 6pm (2tbsps mixed with 1 oz formula). He appeared ready for food and as advised by lead. His NWs started before I introduced the evening feed, but it could also have been because of his illness then.

Also started solids at noon for more than a month and no issues initially.

Do they have a prop? If so what is it?

Pacifier (if pacifier drops out he still continues sleeping though) which calms him and helps him to sleep.
During naps, we hold and pat him to sleep before putting him down.

Do they have a lovie?

No.

Any advice on what should or shouldn't be done is appreciated! I'm back at work next week (after a 6montb hiatus) and my job is very stressful so I don't know how I would survive on so little sleep. Thanks in advance!

[PaulsMom]

Hugs for the nw's.  there are a couple of things that could be at play here....

Wrt his routine, he may be approaching the 3-2 nap transition.  To drop the CN, his a will have to increase so you might want to try increasing it by 10 min or so and see how he does over a few days.  Then another 10 min increase is needed until he up for around 2.5 hrs.  On days when he short naps, a CN may be needed to get him to bt.  If he has good naps, you may find that he still needs a slightly earlier bt until his As are long enough.

You also might want to move his df earlier.  It was recommended by Tracy to do the df before 11 or you may be disrupting his sleep later on.

Wrt solids, you might want to give them in the morning only. If he does have an upset tummy, it will like to occur during the day and not ruin nt sleep.

Lastly, there is a 6 mo gs, so just be prepared for extra feeds.

HTH

[bohbizzie]

thanks! We've been away on a short trip so haven't really been following up on the routine.
Will definitely take your advice on and will keep you posted on how he goes. He definitely is able to go for much longer before getting tired - sometimes when we keep him awake 2.5-3 hours, he goes to sleep more easily without fight.

[PaulsMom]

Keep us posted!  Sounds like he likes the longer A.

[bohbizzie]

day 1 back on his routine and we tried for longer A this time around. He had a mega almost-3 hour nap in the AM then went the rest of the day with only another 45 min nap. Went down for bed just before 7pm, but woke again at 9pm (where i nursed him) and 1.35am (where my husband fed him and he drank 4 ozs), and slept till 7am.

Do you think that he's possibly still needing those night feeds again, thats why hes waking?
And any suggestions on how I might be able to help him "tank up" for the night? I have since dropped the 5.30pm formula feed because after taking that he's too full to take the 7pm bedtime feed. During the day, when I give him bottle instead of nursing him, he doesn't take more than 4ozs (120ml) at one go even though I prepare a bottle of 130-150ml. I always felt 4ozs per feed at his age seems a bit little...

Thanks in advance!

[PaulsMom]

All in all, that's pretty good.  I would repeat the same A for the next few days and see how he does.

It is common for babies this age to take a night feed (or 2).  There is also a gs that occurs around 6 months so it's possible that he's going through that.  He is getting lots of food during the later part of the day.  how much solids is he taking?  When you bf him, is he feeding from one side or both?

[bohbizzie]

he's taking 2 ozs of veggie/fruit purée in the early afternoon, and 2 - 3 tbsp of cereal mixed with formula at 530pm although I have cut that out past few days to see if gas could be a problem. I don't think it is, so will prob reintroduce that today.

When I bf him, it's only from 1 side, but that's because my other side has very very little milk and he refuses the other side

Keeping fingers crossed

[PaulsMom]

Fx!  The amount that he's eating is alright.  Do keep in mind that milk or formula is more calorie dense than solid food.  You might want to give him the cereal at breakfast and skip dinner to see if he takes more milk.

[bohbizzie]

I've made the following changes to his routine:- give him cereal in the AM instead of before bedtime, reimplemented the 120ml bottle at 530pm (I.e BF at 3/330, bottle at 530, BF at 7).

Unfortunately, his nap times seem to be getting very erratic. Usually only 1/2hr, never more than 1 hour. Sometimes he takes two very short (20min) naps between feeds. I can't really tell if he is OT or UT?  I have kept the 645/ 7pm bedtime and he falls asleep relatively quickly but continues to wake for 1-2 more times in addition to the DF. If he wakes around 9plus 10plus, I'll feed him and not do the DF, then he'll wake 1-2 more times at night. If hes not attended to within 10 mins, he starts wailing and thats when we'll try to calm him other than by nursing but he gets frantic and cries even harder (until usually I nurse him and he drinks for about 5-10 mins before falling back to sleep).

I think there are probably a whole host of issues here. Any advice is appreciated! thanks loads!!

[PaulsMom]

Hugs Hun.  Some babes will need to eat during the night after a gs.  Do you think he's taking a full feed?  (Sorry hard to tell because they can eat fast at night especially when there are no distractions).  If its a full feed, then you should feed him.  During the day, see if he can take more calories but it is hard when their tummies are so tiny.

If its for comfort, then you can try to wean either by not feeding at all and trying to settle without a feed (eg. with a paci or Pu/pd) or by gradually reducing the size of the feed (probably done best with a bottle) or by diluting the milk (ie. start off with regular formula and then gradually add less formula and dilute with water and keep the same volume).

[bohbizzie]

hi! It's been about a month since my last response. Baby has since popped 2 teeth and went through a period of absolute crankiness in the day (although his nights remained more or less the same). We have since dropped his DF (went cold turkey) when we realized he wasn't drinking much of it. So now our day goes something like this

Our EASY at 7 months goes like this:-

WU 7am
E 715-730am
A
E (solids) 845/9
S 930-1130 (thereabouts) Naps for 1h15mins - 2hrs
E 1130-1145
A
E (solids) 1
S 215/230 - 330/4 Naps for 1h15mins to 2 hours (if outside maybe only 30 mins)
E 330-4
A
E (solids) 530
E 715-730
S 730

From there, baby will wake either once or twice a night. We managed to wean him off the breast/milk by feeding him water and that puts him to sleep but it seems that he will now only go back to sleep with water. We tried ssshh pat because whenever we pick him up from his crib he starts wailing even harder. He typically wakes at the 3.30 am, and sometimes around 1130 as well.

Any advice? Thanks!!

[PaulsMom]

Well his napping looks really good.  Wrt the nw's, do you think that the 3:30 nw is habitual?  If yes, you could try wake to sleep.  How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)

[bohbizzie]

I've observed that his NW can now be anytime over the course of the night now....night before it was 2am, then 4am, tonight 1am so id rule out habitual waking.

I've also observed that he doesn't drink much at his 7pm bedtime feed - most of the time he will be disinterested after 3-4mins of breastfeeding. When we feed him by the bottle he stops drinking anywhere between 60-80ml. Do you think this could be the reason for the nw? Should I try topping up (re instituting the dream feed)?  Or let him drink some before his bath and top up at 7pm? It seems to be a fair amount he's taking in between 330-7pm though with a full feed anywhere from 330-4, full meal of solids at 530 and milk again at 715 or so. He goes back to sleep during his nw by drinking water though?

Thanks in advance!

[PaulsMom]

Hmmmm.. Sorry I have a bunch of questions.  Is he just waking once during the night?  How much water is he taking when he wakes in the MOTN?  How is he being settled at night? (Is it with water?)

When he took a df, was he waking up around that time for a df or was he basically asleep for that feed?  Around this age, Tracey recommended to think about dropping the df as it could disrupt the sleep.  However some moms do continue the df for a few more months.   I'm kind of hesitant to re introduce the df.  But I'm wondering if he's thirsty at night?  At this point I think I'd try the extra top up before bed to see if that resolves the problem.

[bohbizzie]

he wakes once, sometimes twice in the motn and takes anywhere between 1-4 oz of water to settle to sleep. So id feed water until he gets drowsy then pop the paci in. You're right he could just be thirsty...

when we used to do dream feed, most of the time he'd be asleep still but when he woke around DF time we'd just feed him then.

[PaulsMom]

I'm not sure what part of the world you live but is it hot or is his room temperature on the warm side?  Just wondering if he's a bit warm so he's waking for the water. 

[bohbizzie]

hey PaulsMom,

Thanks for all your advice so far! Dealing with NWs as a full time working mum can b very draining and sometimes you just don't know what else to try!

we're in Singapore and put our son in an airconditioned room at night but he's been sleeping in an air-conditioned room since birth, plus we put him in a sleeping bag. His nose seems a bit blocked this morning so I might try to turn the temp up tonight to see if that helps (he might be cold and thirsty since air-con can b drying?)

The night before, he woke at 145 (put to bed at 8pm) and I thought to feed him some milk since he didn't take much of his bedtime feed, and he slept till almost 7 from there. Last night he went to bed at 7.30, woke at 1230 and 445 where my husband and I took turns to feed him some water and he went back to sleep within a minute or two, then he woke again at 6.20 when I fed him and put him back down to sleep again.

Sometimes he'll wake and will cry a bit before going back to sleep himself, but if he doesn't fall back to sleep within 1-2 mins himself he will escalate into full out crying so we have to attend to him fairly quickly.

I'm getting very confused with all this and can't really see much of a pattern, except that he will typically first wake up between 6-8 hours from the time he starts bedtime. He has also started waking earlier (about 620-630) quite regularly in the last few weeks when he used to sleep till 7/730 consistently.

We're still on 2 naps a day (between 1-2hrs each), and a bedtime of 715-8 depending on what time I get off work and am able to take him home.

Wonder if you can offer any further advice? Or other things to take note of?

[PaulsMom]

Well the night before last sounds alright ! 

Air conditioning can make the air dry and if he's congested he's more likely to breath through his month when will also give him a dry throat.  I agree with settling the AC to a more moderate temp and see how that goes. 

What is his A time like now?  I take it he's around 7.5 months?  Naps look good but the ew's may mean he needs a bit more A. 

[bohbizzie]

Sorry for the bit of silence here!

His A times are usually anywhere from 2hr45 to 3h15 depending on when he looks tired. I leave him at my mum in law's for the day and she helps to keep a log for me, so past few days when he woke at 6.20/6.30, she'll put him down for his AM nap at 9.30 (3h10 A time). The next A time is usually shorter...about 2h30 to 3h as he'll be put down for a nap by 230/245 so that he doesn't sleep past 4pm.  I'm home with him today so will try to stretch out both A times to more than 3h.

We also have a "new problem" - our baby goes to bed pretty easily once finishing his bottle / nursing. However in the past 2 nights he's been waking about 10-ish screaming, really wailing loudly. When we go in to feed him thinking he might be hungry he doesn't want to drink much but he seems to want comfort so after he drinks maybe 5ml/nurses for a few seconds we'll put him back in his cot with pacifier and he'll go back to sleep. What do you think could be the  issue?

So I would say for the past few nights we've had 2 nw and 1 ew consistently.

[PaulsMom]

I've also had both of my kids cry/ scream out.  I've wondered if it was a bad dream since they just seem to need a cuddle and then they go back to sleep.  Since he's not really eating, that might be the cause?  How long are his naps?

[bohbizzie]

his naps range from 1-2 hrs each. Certain days he'll even take two 2-hr naps, which I thought might be a bit much for him.  Yesterday he took a 2h15min nap followed by a shorter 45min in the afternoon.

He slept a bit later yest (about , and woke at 1030 where I fed him cuz he didn't have much to drink at bedtime, then 3.55 (where he took half an hour to fall back to sleep with water) and just woke up at 6.45am. I tried to ensure his A times were at least 3hr each time yesterday, and his WU is slightly later...will stick with it and hope he gets his WU time back to 7/730 since with the middle of night waking it wld be good if mummy could sleep in a bit more

[PaulsMom]

Fx for you.  Keep us posted on how things go!

[bohbizzie]

well, the past few nights he's managed to sleep from 730 to about 530, and seemed quite awake after...water and patting didnt put him back to sleep so I resorted to nursing him till drowsy before I put him back into bed where he'd sleep till 7ish. I hope I'm not setting up some sort of pattern here....

this morning was especially tough - he was up from 530 to 620 and patting and paci didnt work, so I nursed close to 630 and  was expecting the start of the day but he went back to sleep about 645 and is sleeping now (735am)...I'll prob wake him shortly or his entire day might be a bit messed up!

Hv also noticed his upper teeth pushing through so that might be causing some discomfort? And he's also been desperately trying to crawl in bed (has yet to master the technique!)

Not sure if you have any pointers but just wanted to update cuz I think things are getting slightly better

[PaulsMom]

Yay!  7:30 to 5:30 is really good.  I know 5:30 isn't the greatest but he is likely hungry. 

For developmental milestones, give lots of practice time during the day.  With gross motor skills I find that my Los got "physically" tired which meant that they slept better!

For teething, if you know that his teeth are cutting, you can try pain meds if you feel comfortable with that.  The first set of teeth, especially the top teeth can be really uncomfortable for them.  Some moms use the amber necklaces as well. 

[bohbizzie]

Hi PaulsMom, I've been silent for a bit but just wanted to update that things have improved!
He generally sleeps from 730/745 - 7...Rem how I told you that he'd wake to drink water? We leave bottle of water at the same spot at the corner of his crib and when he does wake up in the middle of the night generally he'll reach for the bottle and drink some water to put himself back to sleep. Sometimes he flings the bottle too far and can't reach it and cries for help, so we'll still go in to help but it's definitely an improvement.

Past few mornings though he's woken at 6.15am (after about 10-10.5 hours of sleep) and it's been hard to get him back to sleep. I've just nursed him then cuz I figure he's hungry but after that he's ready to play! Should I not nurse him when he wakes early...thinking it might instill a habit of EW, or perhaps should I let him play till later and put him to sleep an hour later in the hope he wakes later?

He's currently on 2 naps a day - usually 1-1h30mins in the AM (10-1130), and another 1-1h30 mins (230-4)in the afternoon. His A time is about 3-3h15mins (can be more if we're out and then he usually crashes in the car seat otw home). He's on 3 meals a day and milk 3 or 4 times a day. Oh, one more thing, he has also started refusing his bedtime feed but will take water so we've resorted to feeding him water at night. Sometimes he's drift off to sleep while being fed, other times he'll toss and then with the bottle in his hands until he falls asleep (can take 10-20 mins).

[bohbizzie]

also, he has cut 3 more teeth since! We let him wear the amber necklace during the day (think it helps!) and feed him some pain meds when he's extra cranky.

[PaulsMom]

Awesome update!  I think it's fine for him to have a bottle of water at night that he can get himself.

Wrt the 6 am wu, I'm wondering if he needs a routine tweak.  Perhaps a bit more A.  I'm assuming that he's approaching 9mo so he may need an extra 15 min or so. His feeding schedule looks good.  If he's eating a good amount at his meals, his milk intake will gradually decrease. 

Good plan for the teething.  Teething can also disrupt things a lot and this is quite individual for each Lo.

[bohbizzie]

thanks!

We've been extending his A the past few days (3h 15 mins - 3h 30 mins between naps) and so far, this has sort of solved the EW problem, except for the last few nights he's been waking at 4/430 instead and requiring assistance with finding the bottle of water but once we pop it into his mouth, he goes to sleep till 7-ish. Because of the increased A between naps, his 2nd nap of the day sometimes extends to beyond 4pm so I've been pushing back his BT by about 15-30 mins to make at least 3 hours between his last nap and BT.

In addition to the 4/430, he's also been waking at 11-ish PM and tonight in particular he needed a fair bit of coaxing to fall back asleep.

I'm not sure if this is a sign that he's not ready for the increased A time and whether I should move it back to 3 hrs?  He's not teething at this point in time, and nothing "new" seems to be happening.

Thanks in advance!

[PaulsMom]

How long are his naps?  Is he fussing or partying at 11 pm? 

If he just wants to be up, then he may be getting too much daytime sleep so you might need to cap one nap.  But if he's OT, then I agree the A is too long and I'd go back to 3:15 for a bit longer.

[bohbizzie]

Hi PaulsMom

So we had a few weeks of pretty good sleep whichever was great! We basically pushed his naptime back to about 745/8 and since he was going 11hrs of sleep at night instead of 12, he'd be up 6plus/7 which worked for us

but then the flu kicked in and we experienced 1-2 night wakings. The past 3 nights, though, we've had about 4-5 night wakings and everytime he'd just want to be cuddled to sleep. Previously the bottle of water would pacify him, and a few minutes after putting him down asleep he'd wake up crying again. Last night he got up close to 10 times...the last 4-5 times within a 1.5 hour period. Do you think this is separation anxiety and what should I do to address his needs while trying not to fall into bad habits. His schedule remains largely the same as what I posted previously. Id also add that he coughs a bit in his sleep so that could be causing some discomfort, and we has to lower his crib because he has learnt to pull himself to standing and I'm not sure if that is causing some disorientation also.

Thanks in advance!

[bohbizzie]

I guess I should also say that he's now 9 months, which I think is around the time SA could kick in?

[PaulsMom]

Hugs.  That's really rough.  SA could be a culprit here as well as some discomfort.  I'm on my phone at the moment but I will forward you the link for dealing with SA.  Or if one of the mods could do it, that would be great!

Now if he's pulling up in the crib then I would let him practice during the day so he an figure out how to get himself back down safely.  To do this try putting some toys in his crib during the day so he can play ( remove the toys for sleep time though). 

Do you have a humidifier running?  It might help to ease his cough.  Fx he gets better soon. Illness can cause sleep issues.

[PaulsMom]

Sorry Hun for not getting back to you....  I've been crazy busy at work.  How are things going?

[Jodes112]

Hi,

Just thought i would pop on with a suggestion! Do you think he could hanfle an A increase? Its possible that he is not getting enough A time in the day which is why he is waking at night. At 8 months im sure the average A is 3-3.5hrs.

Dd wakes in the night and has an EW and i know she needs an A push. At 8 months dhe was doing around 3hr 15 A between naps. So for example she would wake at 6.30am, nap 1 at 9.45 wake at around 11 and then nap 2 2.30 and wake around 3.30-3.45, then bed at 7/7.15.

What do you think? X

[bohbizzie]

hi PaulsMom and Jodes112,

Things have gotten much better! In fact since I last posted for the past 3 nights he's slept from 8-7. Go figure. I started using the humidifier and he's almost all good, so I'm thinking it must have been the flu. He's also started properly crawling and has learnt to pull himself up to standing (and is now trying to climb from his cot)...a lot of activity for a little guy to handle!

I'll be sure to also take on the pointer about extending his A time once he starts EW...he's actually at  9 months now so He can actually last 3.5hrs if we're out and about and then takes a nice long nap after.

[PaulsMom]

Yay, great update!

[bohbizzie]

hi guys

I thought id check in on something as I fear that this might be the sign of things to come and I want to adequately prepare for it.

So the past month has definitely been a good sleep month, with our little one STTN for about 10.5-12 hours every night. Yay!

Past few nights have been a bit difficult.
Early this morning though he decided to keep standing in his crib refusing to go back to sleep. Typically he's gone back to sleep by himself with a bottle of water or if I go in and cuddle him for a bit and put him back down. He's been up since 530am (it's now 7am) refusing to go back to sleep.

I've gone in to put him lying down quite a few times since, cuddled and patted him for about 5 mins till calm a few times, but he remains sleepy but not sleeping.

I should add as well that he's been able to stand while holding onto something for more than a month so this isn't really a new skill, and he can actually sit himself back down (which is what he sometimes does when he wakes up at night, and I see him on the video monitor).

I guess I just wanted to get some tips on what I should or shouldn't be doing? If he is intermittently whining but not full on crying should I just leave him? And when I go in to attend to him what should I be doing? And what should I be looking out for in the next few days which could serve as an indication of cutting back S time during the day, or if you guys have any suggestions on rejigging the schedule?

Our EASY is something like this now:

730 - WU and Bottle
9 - E (solids)
1045/11-1215/1230 - S
1230 - E (bottle)
2 - E (solids)
3 - 430 - S
6 - E (solids)
730/8 (depending on when he wakes up last) - E (bottle) then S

Thanks in advance!

[PaulsMom]

Yay for STTN but boo for the ew's.  So he's 10 mo old now?  Couple of thoughts...  He may be needing more A time in the am so you might want to bump his first A out.  He might be able to handle closer to 4 hrs A.  Also, 3 hrs of DT sleep might be a bit much so some moms start to cap naps in preparation for the 2-1 transition.  How does that sound?

[bohbizzie]

yep he just turned 10 months 2 days ago

Thanks for the suggestions!

will prob try bumping his A up to 3h30 or 3h45.

Can I ask when the 2-1 transition usually takes place? And how would I cap naps...do I just go in and wake him at, say the 1hr15 mark? I'm afraid that he'll be cranky and that will spoil his mood for the rest of the afternoon. Or should I cap 1 nap first (maybe the afternoon nap) and leave the morning one as-is? Or the other way around?

[PaulsMom]

The 2-1 can occur as early as 12 mo but is usually around 15 mo or so.  It depends on the bub but they usually have to handle more than 4.5 hrs of A time.  So if the day is 12 hrs long that would be 4.5 hrs or so before a 2 hr nap and then another 4.5 hrs until bt. So your lo is still a few months from the 2-1 transition but prior to the 2-1, the days become too long if your lo is taking 2 x 1.5 hr naps and has an A time that's close to 4 hrs.  What I found with my ds is that he took a better am nap so I pushed that one back as his A time increased and then his pm nap was shorter (like a cat nap).  Other moms will cap the am nap (say to 30-45 min) and then do a shorter mid day A and then have a longer pm nap in the early afternoon.  In terms of how to decide which method to use, I'd follow your lo's lead.  So if the am nap is good, then aim to maintain that.  Also note that bt can also move a bit so with two long naps a later bt may make sense but when you start to cap naps or when a nap is dropped then an early bt may be needed.  HTH