Author Topic: EW affecting routine  (Read 2613 times)

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Offline lyssie28

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EW affecting routine
« on: September 03, 2013, 07:55:51 am »
Hi, i posted a little while ago because my lo was waking every hour through the night.  She stopped that for a while but for the past few nights has been waking more again.  Last night she woke at 1.30 for a feed then 3,4.30 and approx  every half hour until 6am when she wouldnt go back to sleep.  She used to be on a great EASY getting up at 7am and going to sleep at 7.30 until she was 4 months.  She's now 5 months old.  Her naps are hit and miss but are getting better.  My question is how can i stop her from waking in the early hours?  She only takes one feed through the night and refuses to feed at the other wakings so its not hunger.  I have tried an earlier bedtime of 6.30 which seemed to work for a bit but now it doesnt make difference so i'm trying to get her back to her 7.30 bedtime gradually.  Her EAS yesterday was:

Wu around 6.15 left her in cot until 7.00

E7.15
S8.00 - 9.30 woke up after half an hour got her back to sleep for another half hour which took 30 minutes.

E 10.15
S 11.15 - 1.00 had to sit next to cot to extend nap.

E 1.15
S2.30 - 3.00

Then she wouldnt sleep until 7.00.  I know she doesnt seem to be awake long but yesterday she just seemed so tired all day.  Should i have gave her more A time?  When her EASY was on track she would go 2 hours.  Should i keep that going and maybe add a little A time every couple of days?  Im not sure if the nw are from being ut or ot?

Her naps sound ok but i want to make them later in the day.  I'm trying to teach her how to go to sleep on her own when she wakes but she doesnt yet.  I have to shush/pat for a few minutes. 




Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 23:54:47 pm »
Hi there,

Hugs for the nw's.  I'm thinking that her nw's are due to an UT/OT loop.  Her As in the morning and mid day are short and the last A until bt is too long which contributes to the OT.  I would push out her morning and mid day A until she's up for 2 to 2.5 hrs.  This will shift her pm nap later in the day so she's more likely to get to bt without being too OT.  If she short naps, then try for an early bt if that is possible. 

As she increases her A, you will find that she starts to drop the late pm nap (ie. the 3-2 transition). 

HTH

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 13:27:37 pm »
Thanks for your reply  :) i will increase her A gradually but she seems really sensitive to it at the minute.  This morning she woke around 6.15 again and i put her down at 8.15.  She slept for 1hr25 without waking after after half an hour which is what she normally does now.  I thought it would be a good time to start increasing her A and just increased it by 5 minutes.  In all she was awake 2hrs 5 minutes before her second nap.  She woke up after half an hour and would not go back to sleep. 

If i give her an extra half hour catnap in the afternoon would this help or end up giving her too much day sleep? Yesterday she was up for almost 4 hours with only a 20 minute nap in between because i had to go out.  I thought for sure it would be another terrible night but she had a one hour nap when i got home then she actually went down for a catnap at 5 and was in her cot and asleep by about 7.20. She woke up twice  :) the day went like this:

Wu 6am

S8 - 9.00

Went out at about 9.30.

S12.00 for approx. 15 to 20 minutes in her pram.

S2.00 - 3.10

S4.45 -5.10

Bt 7.20 with a few wakes ups until asleep properly at 8.  Df at 10.30, woke at 1.30 and 4.30 up for the day at 6.20.





Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 02:11:23 am »
If she's having lots of nws, she might be tired the next morning so I can see how it might be hard to push out her A.  For now, keep her at a 2 hr A and then try to increase the A again in 3-4 days.  By then, she may have adjusted to the 2 hr A and be able to handle a slightly longer A. During the 3-2 transition, if she short naps, I would do a CN so that her last A is not too long (ie. not more than 2.5 hrs).  sometimes bubs can handle a long A before bt but for others, they will end up OT.  Try to aim for a A of 2-2.5 hrs before bt if at all possible. 

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 06:05:40 am »
Ok i will try that today.  Yesterday i couldnt get her to nap in the afternoon or take a catnap. She was awake from 1.15 to 6.30 and had a terrible night  :( she woke every hour from midnight.  I eventually got her out of her cot at 6 but shes back down at 7 as she was starting to yawn again! She fell straight asleep.  It all seems to stem from her afternoon naps but they are always pretty bad.  I think today if she wont go down for her nap i will rock her until she does just to make sure.  If i only do this once in a while would it become a prop? Ill just do it until shes back on track.

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 10:26:24 am »
Ohh yeah that last A is way too long.  If she resists napping I would APOP one.  So if it means going for a walk, drive or rocking her, then I would do it.  If its only done on occasion, then it shouldn't become a prop,  good luck today!

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2013, 07:08:39 am »
Yesterday started bad and got better as the day went on but her A times were all over.  Her day went something like this:

Wu: was awake most of the night i think snoozing but crying every hour eventually got her up at 6.

S7.00 -7.30
E7.30

S9.00-9.30
E10.15

S10.45 - 12.45 she just couldnt stay awake any longer.
E1.30

S2.30 - 3.00

S4.45-5.15
E5.30

Bt 7.00 woke up an hour later took more milk straight back to sleep.

Then she woke at 11.30 for feed, 3.30 wasnt interested in feeding.  But then she woke up 5.30 again wanting to start the day.  I left her babbling in her cot and i think she snoozed for a bit and got her up at 6.30.

She just seems to be so tired in the afternoons.  I now know how important that last nap is for her until she increases her A just hope she continues to take it.  I didnt rock her or anything but i did swaddle her which i havent done in a while and sat next to her and she fell asleep on her own. 

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2013, 10:31:25 am »
Hmmm... Yesterday seemed to be an OT day overall.  Are you able to extend naps at all?  I know it's really frustrating.  If she will take a swaddle and doesn't roll then that's a good option when she's OT.  Last night was better so fx for good naps today.  If you can get her to 2 hrs, that would be great.  If she has a fully restorative nap, then I'd add 5 min to her A.  Keep us posted. Xx

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 08:05:33 am »
Hi her nw have decreased to one at around 3 or 4am but her naps are just as bad.  She has been able to go up to 2hr15 A time but then she'll only have a half hour nap.  If i put her down earlier say on 2hrs she fusses and doesnt go to sleep for ages.  She woke at 7.00 yesterday morning which is great but then back to 6.00 this morning.  I have tried an early bedtine ofhalf 6 and at 7.  Im gradually trying to increase to 7.30 but she generally cant make it to that time yet.  She has been habin her catnap normally around 4.45 for half an hour but then she is sooo tired up until bedtime i have to carry her around.  If i dont she cries.  Finding it hard to increase the naps.  I give myself 20 minutes and if i cant i get her up and give her a shorter A time.  Do you think that her shorter naps are decreasing her nws though? I would have thought she would be up much more.  Yesterday she slept about 2hr hours total day sleep in 4 naps which i would say is no where near what she should be getting.

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 10:42:29 am »
Hugs for the short naps.  I agree, she's not getting enough day time sleep.  When my dd was short napping, I would APOP one nap during the day. So usually I'd try to extend her nap (like you, I'd try for 20 min or so) nadir that failed, I'd APOP the second nap so that she got at least one decent nap in. 

Now for extending naps, I would go in before she was going to wake, so try at the 20 min mark, and I would start to shh her when she started to squirm.  I didn't pu unless I had to but usually that meant the nap was over when she was older than 3 mo.  Hang in there!

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 05:23:40 am »
Thanks ill try doing that today.  She had one long nap yesterday of an hour and a half so thats an improvement  :) but up at 5.20 this morning  :'( i tried for an hour to get her back to sleep and nothing worked so up at 6.15.  I wonder if she just needs maybe 11 hours sleep at night and i should put her down closer to 8? If im putting her down at 7 maybe shes just had enoufht sleep by 5?

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 10:49:23 am »
She may only give you 11 hrs at night.  Both of mine were like that.  I figured that anything after 6 am was fair game for getting up.  8 pm bt might be a bit late - she will need a CN to make it.  But keep in mind when she does finally drop the CN, you will have to do an earlier bt to compensate.  Fx that she naps well today.

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 11:46:41 am »
Managed to get one hour and a half nap yesterday and then 3 half hour naps.  Shes now started screaming when i out her in her cot.  Do you think this is from being ot all the time or just maybe because she wants to stay up and play? This morning she woke around 6am (possibly earlier as she fed at 5 and not sure if she went back to sleep properly) i put her down for her nap at 7.30 as she seemed really tired.  She screamed so much i got her back up and tried again at 8.15.  Still screed butanaged to get her to sleep by 8.45.  Then she was up wide awake rolling around in her cot at 9.10! I got her ip fed her and let her play a bit and bk down at 10.40.  She has been asleep for 2 hours now but only going to let her go 2 and a half max.  It seems that no matter how long shes up she just doesnt want to nap in the morning. Is this her saying she doesnt want that nap? Shes too young to only have one long nap.  She has also been resisting any form of AP except being swaddled which she accepts eventually (i release her arms after shes asleep bcos she rolls alot)

I just keep thinking if she has better naps then maybe she'll sleep better at night and not wake up so early

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 01:04:39 am »
Resisting naps can be due to OT or not being ready for a nap.  So it's really tricky.  Also I found that around 5 mo or so that babies are much more aware of their surroundings that sometimes they send sleepy cues but are really board.  By 5 months she should be up for 2 to 2.5 hrs so your first attempt may have been UT/ not ready for a nap.  At least she got one good nap in. 

She is definitely too young for just one nap.  If her mid day or afternoon nap is good, then go with that.  Try not to stress about every nap or you will drive yourself bonkers.  If it helps, go out in the am, if she sleeps in the stroller or car seat and then try for a decent mid day nap.  The more she "learns" to have a good nap, the more likely that she will start to nap better overall.  Until her A is long enough she will need the CN to get her to bt.  Hang in there!

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2013, 18:53:41 pm »
Yeah i guess the naps arent as improtnant as her night time sleep which has significantly improved to one waking but she is still waking between 5.30 - 6.30 and is wide awake normally.  I think i need to accept that she has had enough sleep by then and hopefully with age she'll sleep a bit longer.  I have tried getting her back to sleep, just leaving her in her cot and putting her in my bed but nothing works she just wont sleep then.  I guess she is just an early bird unlike her mummy!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2013, 21:07:42 pm »
Unfortunately some bubs don't like to sleep in.  Do you have blackout blinds in her room?  If might help to block out any light that may be waking her up in the early am. 

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 06:57:54 am »
Yeah we had to put one in from when she was born because if she woke she would just stare at the window. I thought maybe she was cold so i used extrs blankets or too hot so tried only one, theres no noise waking her at that time except maybe a few cars going past but the never bother her through the day with her naps.  She just finds it hard to sleep.  Sometimes shes still yawning but still wont go back to sleep.  :-\

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2013, 10:54:48 am »
I was looking back through your posts.  10-12 hrs of nt sleep is average.  How long are her As before bt?  I'm assuming she's still on three naps?  OT could be the reason or hunger.  If you fed her and put her back down, Will she go back to sleep? 

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2013, 07:58:57 am »
Her A before bt is generally around 2hrs.  Sometimes a bit shorter or longer depending on how she is.  Normally in the late afternoon she's very cranky even with her catnap its hard to keep her occupied until bed.  She has 2 long naps and a catnap but she's only been taking half hour naps.  One day this week she had 2 full 1hr and a half naps and her catnap and then she slept all night from 7pm until 6am but i dont know what was different for her to do that because she hasnt done it since! One morning i did feed her when woke at 5.30 and she went back to sleep until 7 but she hadnt fed for 4hrs.  I tried this morning when she woke at 5.20 but she wouldnt take any because she'd fed when she woke at 4.

Offline Layla

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2013, 08:20:24 am »
How old is she now? If she's around 5 months, she's probably ready for more A time. My lo is actually down to 2 naps and we're doing 3 hrs across the day. She may be only doing 30 min naps because she isn't tired enough to sleep longer? I would try and aim for morning nap to be a set time - start with 8.30am and no earlier than that and go from there. Then slowly start to push it until its closer to say 9am (over weeks).



20/06/2012 - my angel baby

Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 09:49:23 am »
She is 6 months next week.  Does a half hour nap mean ut? I have been putting her down at around 8am because of her waking at 5.30-6.  Should her A time be 3 hours now? So if I do nap 8.30-10.00 and then 12.30 until 2.00? If she can go that A time and then like you say make the naps later gradually and then cut out the catnap?  I always put her down when she displays her tired signals which is usually crankiness first and then rubbing her eyes. 

Offline Layla

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 09:55:45 am »
Around this age, I stopped following cues with DD1 and 2 and applied pretty much the same thing with DD3. I think the 3-2 nap transition is something to think about as this would be the typical age where they would start to transition (and in our case as early as 5 months). If I were you, I would start to stretch her morning A time (add 15mins every 3-4 days) until you get to 8.30am and then hold it there. With regards to the rest of the A times, i would see how well she slept for her morning nap to determine whether she can do 2hrs or maybe even 2:15.

If your morning nap is 8:30-10 and pm nap is 12.30-2, you will probably be able to do a catnap from 4:30-5 and bedtime around 7am. She may still wake early though and this might have to do with the transition. But slowly over a couple of weeks as you stretch her A times closer to 3hrs, you will find that there won't be enough time for a CN and you would do an earlier bedtime on those days or if the CN is too late then you could wake her about 20mins into the nap to make sure she goes to bed on time.

Are her naps 30mins throughout the day?

What do you think?



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Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2013, 10:19:33 am »
Should I gradually increase A time over a couple of days or longer like say a week?  I think you are right about the transition.  She often really struggles with the catnap even if she's awake for her 2 hrs A time and then sometimes she seems even crankier afterwards as though maybe she's had too much sleep. 

Generally she wakes after half an hour for every nap.  I go into her room just before and watch her.  Sometimes she just rolls over and goes right back to sleep and sometimes she just rolls over onto her stomach and starts to play.  She is almost crawling and is always up on all fours when she plays on the floor getting frustrated that she's not going anywhere fast.  Could it be developmental at this stage?  She can go to sleep by herself through the night but most naps it just seems that she is wide awake.  Sometimes I might spend up to half an hour trying to get her back to sleep just to find that as soon as I walk away she rolls onto her front and is playing.  Is that because she wasn't really tired for her nap?

I forgot to mention that for her morning nap I have started putting her in her cot at 8.00am just recently so that she is asleep by 8.15-8.20 but again it depends on how tired she seems and what time she woke up. 

Offline Layla

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2013, 23:33:51 pm »
I would do an increase of 10-15 mins every 3 days, starting with her first A time until you get to 9am and then work on the other A times. Also at this age your presence may be interfering with her ability to get back to sleep. Honestly I would not enter the room...do you have a monitor? We're at 3 hrs across the day and I've noticed that when I put mine down just 15 mins earlier, she'll wake at 30mins and talk for 10mins or so before going back to sleep whereas at 3 hrs A time, she'll wake very briefly and go back to sleep so It could very well be that she isn't tired enough to want to sleep longer. Play around with the A times and see if it helps but don't rush to her aid too soon-she will have to get used to sleeping in different positions. I would go to her if she's crying but not if she's just laying there....but that's just what I'd do :-\
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 23:43:53 pm by Layla »



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Offline lyssie28

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Re: EW affecting routine
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2013, 14:50:44 pm »
Yeah I'll try to keep away as much as possible if she wakes up.  I've started to put her in her cot and shush for 5 minutes until she is sleepy and then leaving the room.  Sometimes I hear her rolling around, she is never still, but I'll just leave her to it unless she cries.  She does get herself stuck sometimes and I would go into her room place her on her back and shush until she was asleep but maybe I'm keeping her awake by doing this.  I'll just put her back and then leave the room again maybe that will help.  That's what I do through the night and she seems to settle ok.  We are still having problems with her waking early but I am coming to accept that until she is older maybe she just has had enough sleep by then.