Author Topic: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night  (Read 3694 times)

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Offline AbbaG

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Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« on: September 13, 2013, 10:56:04 am »
Hi.

My son wakes most nights after one sleep cycle after we put him down for bed (so 40 mins later). This has been happening for quite a few weeks and happens roughly 5-6 out of 7 days. If he needs to be resettled its generally a matter of rolling him onto his side and he passes out back to sleep, or after a few minutes of grizzle crying he'll put himself back to sleep.

Also, every morning he wakes at 5am (ish) and generally puts himself back to sleep (or we move him across in his to the side of his cot so that he can roll himself onto his side (he loves sleeping on his side), he then wakes again at around 6/6.30, and after 10ish minutes puts himself back to sleep - we then wake him at 7ish. (I'm sure he's not hungry at these wakings as my hubby gets him up, changes his nappy and brings him to me and we have a little chat before I feed him - it's not like he's crying to be fed from the time he gets up).

He is fed every 3.5 / 4 hours and has 2 to 2 hours 10 minutes wake time between sleeps. He's fed once overnight - when he wakes around 12/1.

Today our naps went like this -
Down 9.10
Wake 9.50
Back to sleep 10.37
Up 11.17

Down 1.15 awake 1.55
Back 2.05 woke 2.25
Rested till 2.45 (lay there opening and closing eyes but just staring)

Down 4.20 up 4.55

Bed time is 7pm- 7.10pm

Tonight he again woke after one cycle, and after 5 or so minutes I went I help him settle and when I got to  his door he was suddenly quiet - asleep!

Any thoughts on the night waking after 1 sleep cycle? Anything I could to help him to get through this cycle without waking / crying?

Also, what can I do about the early waking?

Thanks in advance - pls let me know if you need any further details.



« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 21:43:36 pm by AbbaG »

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2013, 22:23:10 pm »
How old is he?

Guessing ~4-5 months from the routine. He's up for 2hr off a catnap which is not as restorative as a long nap. Waking early on in the night is a classic sign of OT at bedtime which is pretty likely given the A time after the CN.

Given my guess at the age, I'd just feed at the 5am waking - pretty normal to still need 2 feeds at night at this age and the waking a sleep cycle after going back to sleep suggests he's hungry enough to wake as he goes through the light sleep stage of the sleep cycle. Maybe not hungry enough to scream til he's fed but hungry enough to wake him.

Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 06:44:33 am »
Hi. You're correct, he's just over 5 months.

I hadn't thought about being OT from the CN - will try to get him down closer to 6.30 when his CN falls earlyish.

Wrt the waking at 5 and 6, do you really think its hunger? As I said, I'd ruled that out as he doesn't seem hungry at 7am....

Thanks!

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 10:15:13 am »
Ok, at just over 5 months, his A time probably needs to be higher than 2hr - closer to 2:15-2:30 - increasing that could well knock out your EW as that can also happen as a result of LO knowing he'll get a nap fairly early on in the day. The other sign for that is the short nap and long resettle for that first nap of the day.

Offline weaver

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2013, 13:53:58 pm »
My LO1 used to do this like clockwork.  It was definitely OT, he needed a slightly earlier bedtime. 
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 06:13:04 am »
Hi. Thanks heaps for your advice so far ladies.

Today I tried putting him down for his naps a little later -

Nap 1 I put him down 2 hours and  15 mins after waking (he went to sleep 6 minutes later) ... He woke 30 mins later, resettled after 10 minutes and slept for another 50 minutes = total 120 minutes

Nap 2 I put him down 2 hours and 10 minutes after waking (he went to sleep 8 minutes later) .. He woke 30 minutes later, resettled after 10 minutes and slept for another 20 minutes, back to sleep 15 minutes later for just 12 minutes.... In between each short nap was a fair few tears. = total 62 minutes

So... I'm thinking that in both cases I put him down too late - do you agree? It seems that 2 hours - or maybe 2 hours 5 minutes may be as good as it gets for us at this stage

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 09:06:16 am »
Nope, I think 2:15 is pretty good - I'd expect to resettle at 30min for the first 2-3 days of a jump in A times as he gets used to it. The fact you could resettle pretty quickly means he's not drastically OT from that increase.

He woke 30 mins later, resettled after 10 minutes and slept for another 50 minutes = total 120 minutes
Not sure this maths adds up. 30 + 50 = 80... did I miss something? 1.5hr nap basically in my book.

What I think is that you will likely end up going a little further than 2:15 once he's settled onto that time for a few days. He may get a little OT as you increase but as he gets used to the new A time, he will be fine. xx

Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 09:15:16 am »
Thanks for the response (and the help!)

You're right - of course! Not sure where my adding came from!  :D

Does the second nap seem okay? To me that one definitely seemed like way too OT?

For his CN today I put him down at 3.20 - he went to sleep at 3.36 and slept until 4.04 - so 28 minutes (I think I have my adding right this time!).

The whole day seems based around 30 (ish) minute sleeps...

So your advice is that I stick with 2.15?

Thanks!


Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 09:41:33 am »
Yeah, the second nap often goes to pot a bit on the first day of new A times. You could stick with 2hr for the second one for a couple of days and then extend that one once the first A time is bedded down at 2:15 if you think that'd suit your LO better but I'm a get it over and done with kinda gal and it will come out in the wash in 2-3 days anyway so if you're cool with the resettling, I'd do it that way and you'll have your new routine sorted in half the time ;)

Yes, give 2:15 a go for 4 days and see how you're going then.

Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 20:55:21 pm »
Last night he again woke 40 minutes in - but I expected that as he went to sleep at 6.50 - a bit too far beyond the CN.

From there he woke and I fed him at 12.

He then woke at 3, 4, 5 and 6.30. (At 3 and 4 he was back asleep after a tiny grizzle within a minute or 2, at 5 it took a bit longer as I Checked his nappy which woke him up as he was going back to sleep).

This morning he was chomping at the bit for a feed when we got him up.

So now I'm confused... Does he need 2 feeds overnight after all? If yes, why 3 hours later if he can go much longer during the day? And why is this the only morning where he's very obviously been wanting to bed fed ASAP? And how is it that just over a week ago he pretty much STTN (one night be woke at 5.30. One at 6.30)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 22:14:36 pm by AbbaG »

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2013, 22:13:39 pm »
Could just be a growth spurt.

Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 01:38:28 am »
So, it seems that 2.15 is a great awake time, we're getting 2 x near to 1.5 hour sleeps (always with a small wake in the middle).

So now to fix that night time sleep!

I'll repost with where we are at a little later - I'm hoping you can assist!

Thanks so much for your help so far!

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 05:15:06 am »
Small wake in the middle could be an indication to increase A time just a touch more but definitely give it 3-4 days to settle in first before you go tweaking again. Glad things are looking up :)

Keep in mind it will take a few days of naps being better before it affects night wakings.

Offline AbbaG

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2013, 00:08:09 am »
Thanks Becj for your help so far.

Just a couple of extra details -

I feed him (bf) at around 7,11, 3 and 6.15 during the day
He has 2 solid meals at around 8 and 5.15 daily (not terribly large though)
He doesn't have any props
He does have a comforter - a 'taggie'

We had around 6 weeks of sleep regression which we brought to an end from the night of 3rd September by allowing some crying (definitely not a really upset cry - any upset cry we go to him and help to resettle) and aiming for just 1 feed overnight.

The 2nd night he woke around 10 - left to SS and then didn't wake until 4.50, the 3rd night he again woke around 10, left to SS and then didn't wake until 6.30am.

From then he went back to wanting a feed generally somewhere from 11.30 to 1.30 (which I'm okay with as he only feeds 4 times during the day). He's always hungry at this wake.

After the couple of near STTNs and the above feeds were added he was waking around 4,5,6 (ish) as mentioned in a previous post.

As you can see below I fed Tues, he really wasn't that interested, Weds I fed 1 side and with Thurs. in all cases I'm certain he's not terribly hungry - his cry is very different to the cry when he wakes between 11 and 1 for a feed and when I take him to the seat I feed him in he'd be happy to just sit there with me.

As i said above, In the past few days our naps have been much better but nights are still really weird I'll give u a rundown of the past 3 days -

Tuesday

Woke at 6.30 - fed then also

Nap 1 - down 8.45 - 8.49 asleep woke 10.02 back about 10.20, woke 10.30
=1.13

Nap 2 - down 12.44  asleep before 12.55 woke 13.24 back sleep 13.36 woke 14.27
= 1.20

Nap 3 - in pram 4.55 to 5.15
= 20

Solids 5.25, feed 6.05

Bed 6.40, asleep by 7.10
- Stirred a few times, cried about 10 put self back to sleep
- Woke and Fed 12.30
- Woke and Fed 4.00 - wasn't terribly interested.
- Woke 6.30 put self back to sleep

We woke DS at 7

Wednesday -

Nap 1 - down at 9.20 asleep 9.25 woke 10.05, back to sleep 10.11 Woke 11.07
= 1.34

Nap 2 - in pram (mothers group) - 25 minutes

Nap 3 - sleep 15.26 wake 3.53 back 15.58 (ish)  woke 16.12  16.22 woke 16.59
= 1.18

Bed 7.00
- Woke 7.40, 8.20, 9.00. In all cases put self back to sleep
- Fed 1.00 and 4 (just 1 side - around 5 mins)
- Woke 6, Put self back to sleep
- we woke DS at 7

Thursday

Nap 1 - 9.30 to 10.36
= 1.06

Went out so next nap late

Nap 2 -  1 .13 - 2.00 & 2.08 - 2.20
= 59

Nap 3 - 5.05 to 5.25

Asleep for the night 19.11
- Didn't wake until 11.30 ish - fed
- Woke 2 ish too close to last feed, left to SS
- Woke 4.15 - left 10 mins, almost resettled a number if times but fed 1 side (around 5 mins)
- When put back down was quiet 5 mins, then cried for a number of minutes
- Didn't wake again until 7am (7.07)

I'm really at a loss.... If I don't feed him that 2nd time overnight he seems to wake a number of times thereafter, if I do feed him (even though he doesn't seem to really want it) he takes some time to SS but doesn't wake again - and last night he first woke around 2.15 after his nightly feed - there's no way he was hungry!

What do you think?


 

Offline becj86

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Re: Waking after 1 sleep cycle at night
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 03:30:09 am »
Ok, I think shift that solids meal from 5:15 to 12 - solids just before bed can result in wakings in the night and solids just before that BT milk feed can reduce that feed and result in extra/earlier wakings.

I think also that most of those naps look like he needs more A time, just another 10-15min.

It is getting colder where you are? Just wondering, as 4/5/6am wakings on the sleep cycle can be related to cold sometimes too - coldest part of the day.