Author Topic: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though  (Read 1611 times)

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Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« on: September 29, 2013, 13:24:17 pm »
Hello,

Was hoping I could get some insight and maybe some suggestions.  M  has never been a good sleeper.  Ever.  I think the longest stretch of time he's ever slept is 6 hours, but that was twice.  5 hours straight maybe 3 or 4 times.  He typically wakes every 3-4 hours, even if he has had a really long NW.  I can't remember when the long NWs started -- I think maybe about 2 months ago.  They are the norm, a night where he has an NW and settles back to sleep easily is the exception.  I have no idea why and what to do.  Please help me! I can't believe he's almost 7 months and this is still going on!

Here's his EASY:
6-6:15am - WU (although sometimes it's 5:30 or 5:45)
7:30am - E (2-4oz of formula, 4 tbsp of solids)
9:00am - S  - this one is tricky -- I have a preschool run every day at 8:30.  If he has had a really bad night or if he has awakened really early, he will fall asleep on the way there for a few minutes.  In that case, I am able to wake him when we get there, and keep him up until we get back home and put him down in his crib, then he'll fall asleep by 9:15.  If he doesn't fall asleep until after we drop off, around 8:50, I just drive around and try to get him a nap of 1.5 hrs - he doesn't transfer well and I fear waking him and putting him down as we have to go back out at 10:50 to pick S up.  In general, though his nap will last about 1 hr 15 to 1 hr 30 min.  On occasion, 2 hours.
10:45isham - WU
11:30am - E 4-6 oz formula
12:30pm - 4 tbsp solids
1:45ishpm - S
3-3:30pm - WU
3:30/4pm - E 4-6oz formula
6:00pm - 2 tbsp solids
6:30 Bedtime routine and 4-6oz formula
7:00 - asleep (he falls asleep totally independently)
10:00 - NW1, E 5-7oz, usually goes back to sleep pretty easily, but on occasion not
1-2 - NW2, this lasts for 1.5 to 2 hours
2:30/3 - S
5-6 - up again, sometimes just stirs and puts himself back, sometimes needs assistance, sometimes a bottle, sometimes just up early, usually up for the day between 6/6:30

During NW2, I start out by patting.  If he doesn't quiet down from that, I pick him up.  Only if he continues to cry do I try to feed him.  With that said, even feeding him does not put him back to sleep.  Rarely will he even take a full feed at this time.  I really don't think that's what he wants, but I am usually getting desperate at that point.  Many times, he will fall back to sleep with patting etc, but once I get back into my room, 5 minutes later he's crying again.  This goes on for 2 hours.  I try to rock him once I'm really desperate and he may quiet down, but won't go to sleep.  If I think he is asleep, I'll put him down and he'll cry again about 5-10 min later.  He knows how to sleep independently for both naps and BT so I don't know what is going on. We had a few nights last week where he did sleep from 7-1, was up for an hour, and then slept until 5:45.  We always get a random night thrown in there - usually not necessarily better, but different, which throws me for a loop.  I am wondering if the 10pm feeding, which he wakes for is throwing him off.  With that said, he takes 7oz at that feed, so I don't know.  I feel like if it were a DF, he may sleep longer versus him waking for it, but I don't think it makes sense to DF him before 10 which is what I would have to do, and it probably doesn't make sense to try to establish a DF now that he is almost 7 months old.  Is it time to wean the NF? He isn't used to a bottle at a specific time in the middle of the night (only the 10pm one) so I wouldn't even know how to go about this because sometimes I feed, sometimes I don't.

His naps have been good lately, but we always have the odd day of a messed up nap because of preschool or doctors appts, etc.  Could he just be so OT from months of bad sleep (which I believe initially started due to his reflux) that we can't get it to work now?

He cut his first tooth last week, started solids close to 6 months, and doesn't seem to be in as much pain from reflux anymore.   I don't think it is the solids because I try new foods in the am and he doesn't seem to be bothered by it during the day.  Also, even when he doesn't have solids we have these issues.

Developmentally he is doing new things constantly, and for awhile I thought it was because he was trying to sit up, but now he can sit up on his own and is even crawling (in his own way).  He even pulled to standing in the crib the other day (another story). 

It just seems like he cannot settle with or without help at that NW.  Please help! I can't believe that we are almost at 7 months and he's still not sleeping any better.  It doesn't have to be perfect, but just a little better, like shorter NWs?  :-\

TIA!!



--Nicole
(formerly samsmommy3312010)

Offline goldmom

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 22:50:06 pm »
Just listening in and offering support. DD is 7 months and rarely sleeps more than a single 5 hour stretch in a night, but we don't have the long NW (hugs for that).

Offline Layla

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 23:52:15 pm »
Hi Nicole and more hugs for the nws, you must be so tired! :(

Your routine looks good except I would be tempted to say put him down a little earlier for the night as it is possible that the 4hr stretch before bedtime is too long and are probably not helping. So my 1st suggestion would be to do bedtime at 6.30pm (to be asleep by) to help him catch up on some sleep too!

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I am wondering if the 10pm feeding, which he wakes for is throwing him off.  With that said, he takes 7oz at that feed, so I don't know.  I feel like if it were a DF, he may sleep longer versus him waking for it, but I don't think it makes sense to DF him before 10 which is what I would have to do, and it probably doesn't make sense to try to establish a DF now that he is almost 7 months old.  Is it time to wean the NF? He isn't used to a bottle at a specific time in the middle of the night (only the 10pm one) so I wouldn't even know how to go about this because sometimes I feed, sometimes I don't.
With regards to the 10pm night feed - I also wonder if its doing more harm than good. Sometimes the DF disturbs their night sleep more than helping them sleep longer, so I would probably try and resettle here and feed at the 1-2aam NW to see if it helps?

Is he on medication for reflux? Could it be discomfort? Can you think back to when these long NWs started? was it introduction of solids or change in meds (if on them) or change in routine?



20/06/2012 - my angel baby

Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 11:21:14 am »
I am so mad! I posted yesterday and I guess it didn't take! I don't have time to write now, but wanted to say a quick thanks.  I'll be back later. :-*
--Nicole
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Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 14:27:37 pm »
Thanks, goldmom! (((Hugs)))

Thanks, Layla! So I am trying to EBT -- however, yesterday he slept until 4:15 for his afternoon nap, so I felt that 6:30 was too early to put him down.  He fell asleep easily at 7:15 though.  He does fall asleep easily most nights anyway.  With that said, I think the 6:30 BT can help, so should I wake him earlier from that nap or try to push it back if he starts sleeping longer? I think he was trying to catch up (he went down at 2:15 yesterday).

I agree about the 10pm feed.  If I am going to resettle him, and not feed, should I try PU/PD? I've never done it before with either of my kids.  Patting works sometimes, but most of the time not anymore.  Should I also try WTS since the time he gets up is usually around the same time (although the night before and the night before that it was 9:30).  Interestingly, for the past three nights, the long NW has been at the 9:30/10pm time and then he hasn't had a long NW in the MOTN.  Last night he woke at 10, we couldn't resettle so we fed him, he wouldn't go back down until about 11/11:30 and then slept until 6:45 --he stirred at 5:45 and fussed for a few minutes and then put himself back.  Was shocked out of my mind.

Re discomfort -- I don't really think it is the reflux -- he seems to be fine with it during the day now and he is medicated with omeprazole.  So I think we had this situation with the long NWs around 4 1/2-5 months, then it got better at 5 1/2 months (although he was waking every few hours, they weren't long necessarily), and then a little past 6 months we started with the long NWs again.  It's been going on for almost a month now. He will be 7 months on Saturday.  He cut one tooth and there is another one ready to go, I *think* any day now.  I've given tylenol or advil on some nights, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. 

I tried using mylicon again just in case it was gas, but no difference.

I had tried to introduce solids at 4 1/2 months and I thought the long NWs were because of that so I stopped, but they continued.  They started back up again before I reintroduced them in the 6th month.  I don't think it's due to the 3-2 transition because they were happening regardless of whether there was a CN or not (he is totally off the CN now though).  Could it be developmental? It seems extreme to be developmental, but he is doing new things constantly so I have no idea!

Thanks so much for your help!!! :-*

--Nicole
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Offline Layla

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 00:11:05 am »
If his afternoon nap ends at 4:15, then it would make sense that he wouldn't be ready for bed until 7.15pm... but overall if his nap ends at 3/3.30pm, then bedtime at 6/6.30pm would be more appropriate and it could be that his long NWs are from the long stretch before bedtime? When you dropped the catnap, did you adjust his bedtime?

When he wakes, is he mantra crying or its a real (i need you mummy) cry? If its not, then I would be leaving him in the cot as he may be trying to self settle and when you interfere, he gets more wired up and unable to settle for a long time? You could try W2S to see if that will fix things (How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods))



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Offline MonstiesMum

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 08:26:39 am »
Hello Sam-N-Max's Mommy,

I just wanted to let you know that I have a 8.5 month old with very similar challenges. So big hugs to you, I feel for you with the sleep deprivation, it sucks. I am not sure if you were able to improve your LO's NWs, but if you were I'd been keen to hear how you did it. 

Since our LO was born, he has slept a 5-hour stretch once, just yesterday! Probably a 4-hour stretch a few times and a 3-hour stretch less than 10 times.  Most nights he wakes up every 2 - 2.5 hours if I am lucky! Despite not needing to nurse him down for naps and BT, he cannot put himself to sleep, so he still needs me to shush and pat him to sleep for all naps and BT. He nurses beforehand, but always goes into his crib with his eyes open.

Like your little one (from what I understand), my guy does not have reflux, food intolerance, or gas issues. Throughout the day he is a happy baby. We have never had him CIO.

After several failed attempts at shushing and patting and PU/PU, I've discovered that nursing him down to sleep is the only way that he and I can actually get some sleep. My husband and I tried the former two methods for 10 days in a row (a couple of times) and would end of getting almost no sleep. We would hold him and shush and pat him, but he we just cry and cry and cry. Maybe after about 2 hours he would fall asleep from exhaustion. And then wake up 30 minutes later. PU/PD just upset him more and more, to the point where he was crying nonstop, so we stopped trying that.

After those 10 day periods, my LO was still not able to put himself to sleep and there was absolutely no improvement to the NWs. I also tried tanking him up (during the day) with breast milk, plus solids at meal times, but that made no difference. I am beginning to think that maybe he likes to sleep with a very full stomach. If his stomach is more empty (than it is full), he is unable to resettle himself back to sleep. But this is just a theory.....

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're not the only out there with a mysterious NWing issues!

Hang in there,

Holly


Offline Sam-n-Max's Mommy

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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 11:27:49 am »
Hi Holly!  (((Hugs)))

Thank you so  much for all of your help, Layla. 

I haven't had time to write a proper post, but will be back later to chat with you both! Things have improved, but I'm still working on it ::)  I'll write more a little later. xo
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Re: Almost 7 month old LONG night wakings, nothing new though
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 11:14:51 am »
Hi - so things are still wonky over here. 

DS cut 2 teeth in the past few weeks.  I thought things would maybe revert to a better state now that they are through, but not so! His reflux is really bothering him again - I think the teething has caused a flare.  I've been trying to avoid a meds increase, but I think I'm going to call the doctor today.  It may be disturbing his sleep.  He is not eating normally (pulling on and off the bottle etc). He also started with a runny nose yesterday, so he seem to have a slight cold, but no other symptoms.  Last night was bizarre.  He had a good AM nap, a 50 min PM nap (OT or discomfort).  From 3 pm on, he just fussed and fussed and fussed.  I knew it was going to be a bad night.  I put him down at 6:30.  At 7:15 he woke up, and resettled himself.  He was restless from then until 11 when he woke up to eat.  We are trying to wean his NFs (since we think these are the culprit of the NWs), so DH gave him 4 oz.  He wouldn't go back to sleep and was still wailing, so DH gave him another 2 oz, of which he only drank 1.  He then would fall asleep, wake up, fall asleep, wake up -- all until 12:30 when I finally gave him Motrin (I should've given it at BT, but I feel like we gave it or tylenol while he was cutting his teeth and didn't want to keep doing it).  He then slept until 5:45.  I gave him a bottle and he went back for about 10 minutes.  However, that 5 hour stretch was one of his longest lol.  I have no idea what is going on, but clearly he is in some kind of pain.  I thought ear infection last night with the restlessness and up and down, but now this morning he is playing pretty happily, although refluxing all over the place.  Even though the two bottom teeth are through, he is gnawing on everything like mad and drooling like a faucet, which tells me teeth, but I see no signs of the top ones.  THey may be pushing down, causing some pain, but then what will he be like when they actually cut?! lol.  I don't remember teething exactly from DS1.

Anyway, the long NWs are fewer than they had been, but he still may wake every 3 hours and is always EWing now. (We do still get nights with long NWs - just Sunday night he was up from 1:30-4:15 and then up for the day at 6:15 :'( ).  It is hard to pull apart what's causing what.  Naps in general are still good, at 1 hr 20 - 1 hr 30 each. 

If this post seems all over the place, that is because every night has been pretty different lately and I feel like many things are affecting sleep at this point. 

Going to see if we can take care of the reflux piece of it today, although I hate increasing his meds.  I'll ask for a temp increase since I think it is teething related. 

I am useless and no help to you, Holly -- I'm sorry!!!! Has your situation improved? Chronic sleep deprivation is really, really hard.  I am thankful for coffee.  (((Hugs)))
--Nicole
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