PLEASE HELP ME SORT OUT MY 3.5 MONTH OLD'S ROUTINE. ACTION PLAN NEEDED

[MrsF]

Hi there!
I am after any advice - this is so much harder second time around as I have a 3 year old to consider.
My 3.5 month old son settled well at night from early on, sleeping between his 6.30 pm feed till around 2/3 am and then waking at 5.30/6am so I thought over time he would eventually stretch out and I wouldn't need to intervene. At that stage he was on a 2.5 hrly feeds and the mat health nurse suggested I push him to 3 hourly feeds. It was around the same time that he had his 12 week growth spurt. I tweaked his day times to 3 hourly feeds and he started waking more at night. I feel it's hunger as he wakes between 5-7 hours after his evening feed and then again 3-4 hourly after that which can mean 1 and 4 or 2 and 5 etc.
I think he can go longer awake time during the day but I am stuck in a cycle of resettling at 45 min mark (it was working a treat before this wonder week started - Patting in cot was working but now it's generally pu/pd) which sometimes means a shorter nap and then he only able to manager 1.5 hours max awake although seems to be able to be awake for longer periods later in the day (just prior to his cat nap) and his first awake time is usually quite short. Not sure if this means doing a variation to the routine where not every awake time/nap is the same length?
I would like to get his day routine more sorted as he wakes at different times each day due to the night wakings and its hard to plan my days. I would also like to reduce the night wakings. I tried dream feeding last night but he still woke at 2 and 5 am and then wouldn't go back to sleep  so eventually got him up (was happy and wide awake) at 6 am but then EASY was all off. Please help me tackle this situation one thing at a time. I can't see the wood for the trees! 
Thank you in advance!!

His typical EASY is

6am wake feed
activity
7.30 sleep
9am feed
activity
10. 30 sleep
12 feed
activity
1.30 sleep
3 feed
activity - lately this has increased to 2 hrs
5 catnap
5.30 wake I started doing a feed here to tank him up to try kick the night wakings
6 activity plus bath
6.30 story/cuddle if not too tired otherwise top up (I am EBF)
7 Bed - I feed him in a dark room with white noise to drown out my 3 year old's noise but generally he is still awake when I pop him down and will babble for a few mins and then go off to sleep. I have only ever had to settle him a few times at bed time. 

12-2 am 1st wake feed

3-5 am 2nd wake feed

6-7 wake for the day and feeds are off unless last feed was at 4am in which case he does a really good first feed.


Mrs F

[jessmum46]

Hi MrsF and welcome to the BW forums

His nights are actually really really good for this age - especially given you are EBF then one longer stretch and then back to the typical feeding interval for the daytime is very normal.  Completely understand that those 5.30am ish feeds can really throw the day off though - that's also very common at this age.  What I used to do was let DD feed when she woke for it, and then offer a feed again like a top-up on WU for the day.  Sometimes she wasn't hungry and then I'd just delay a bit and the start of our day would look like AEAS.  This phase did pass with time, and she also gradually grew out of the night time feeds without me actively changing anything. 

With awakes time an average for a 3 month old is 1h20-30 and 4 month old increasing to 1h45-2h.  It's totally fine if not all A times are the same - many LOs like the first A a bit shorter.  Do bear in mind though that 45 min naps at this age aren't necessarily related to A time - they can very much be developmental as LO learns to transition smoothly through sleep cycles.  When he wakes is he upset and needing you or is he awake and content?  If he is happy I wouldn't intervene at all - you may find that he babbles a while and can then drift back off to sleep without your help.  But if you are stuck with 45 min naps you just need to offer more of them in the day and may need to reduce A times slightly as LO won't be as rested by short naps as if he had full ones. 

The one bit of your routine I might suggest to change is the end of the day as with a 2h A time, 30 min nap (I presume he wakes himself?) and then another 1.5h A time LO may well be going to bed OT.  If you could get him to take the CN earlier or bring BT say to 6.30pm instead of 7pm he may well be less tired and then sleep better in the early hours of the morning.  What do you think?

[MrsF]

Thanks so much for your help Katherine! I have been viewing these forums for a few years but too shy to post till now.

He woke last night at 10.30pm which I am hoping is due to OT or wonder week rather than a new habit. I fed him hoping he would then go a longer stretch but he woke again at 2 and again at 5 and then started the day at 6 and wasn't hungry so I did the AEAS. I read Tracy said something about getting the calories into day feeds rather than night as at night he feeds so much better so I am thinking of trying to feed him in a more quiet space during the day perhaps. I don't want him to confuse day and night but he's now reached an age where he gets quite distracted whilst feeding (stops to smile at me - I can't help but respond and have some giggles with him- or notices a light or mirror surface etc or stops to listen to DS1 voice) and I am thinking this may have led to doing longer feeds over night.

When should I try to resettle over night? An age/weight or after a certain # of hours?
My DS1 would be dreamfed and then woke at the exact time night after night so I tried Tracy's 3 night dummy trick and it worked so I knew it was not hunger. (He was 4 months at the time).

First S today I watched for his cues and popped him down in the perfect window and he fell asleep beautifully but then at the halfway mark was screaming and didn't resettle for ages. Another question, when you say this age can stay awake 120 to 130, do I start the nap time routine (sleeping bag, swaddle, darken room, white noise, pick up and hold or hold in cot and pat) when he's been awake for this amount of time or take 20 mins off that for the wind down routine?

Re naps it's good to know these might stretch out, I recall DS1 was eventually doing two really goods naps but I cannot remember at what age.

DS2 wakes halfway through his sleep cycle and I can tell he's still tired. Shh pat or PUPD usually work but sometimes I have to resort to pushing him in the pram in order for him to go back down. If it's been around 2.5 hours since last feed I have occasionally just got him up and fed him and then put him down again after a shorter A time. Re the A time, how do you keep the feeds to 3 hourly if  lessening the A time after a shortened nap?

I will try bringing the CN and BT forward - I was worried he would be UT if I didn't keep him up for longer.

So, if I do 1.5 hrs (or less if tired) then CN then 1.5 hrs then BT? Also, if I feed when he wakes from the CN and do a top up before bed do you count the top up feed (which sometimes last 30 mins - in dark room with white noise) as A time so should I have fed, bathed and dressed him within the 1 hour after waking from CN and then straight into top up feed and then put down at the 1.5hr mark?

I hope that makes some sense???

Thanks again!
Mrs F (Nicole)

[jessmum46]

Oh yes I remember this age - completely couldn't feed in public any more as everything going on around me was WAY more interesting than feeding, no thought for Mummy's dignity even had to send DH away a number of times!  Feeding just as LO woke from a nap (in her room a lot of the time) or at least somewhere quiet really helped, but I do remember feeling like the BT and night feeds went on a lot longer than the daytime ones.  I guess because there was no incentive to hurry up so she could play!

For night feeds LO should be able to manage as long as he can during the day, say 3 or 3.5h.  So check your watch at BT feed, say 7pm and note when next feed would be due ie 10.30pm.  If he wakes before 10.30pm (use your judgement if it's 10.25!) then resettle him all the way to sleep without feeding even if it takes you past 10.30pm.  If he wakes after, then go ahead and feed and make a note of when the next 3.5h is up etc.  That way he learns that he gets fed when genuinely hungry but won't get fed just by protesting for a long time every time he wakes.  Over time you could increase that interval to 4h, then a bit longer. 

A times include everything eyes open to eyes closed, so if you are aiming for 1h20 you would start your 20 min winddown at 1h aiming for him to be in the crib asleep at 1h20 . Feeds are also counted as part of your A time. 

Re feeds and short naps - just do the best you can.  It's not a strict 3h schedule so if you have to feed at 2.5h to avoid an eat/sleep clash, and the next time he goes 3.5h that's ok. 

At the end of the day you could do 1.5-2h, catnap then a slightly shorter A time of 1-1h15 before bed, aiming to fit in all of your bedtime routine so he is asleep for the night by 1h15 or so.

Hope that addresses everything