Unsure with EASY transition from 3-4 hours.

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi,

My little guy is 14 weeks old.  I was beginning to transition him to a 3.5 (and eventually 4 hr) EASY about 3 weeks ago but...

1.  He cant' stay up much more than 1:10 in the morning A and then about 1:20-1:30 in the afternoon A's
2.  He wakes frequently at 45 minute mark and can't resettle
3.  He requires via prop - bouncing on a therapy ball for falling asleep and as the day goes on, I have to make sure he is ASLEEP or when I put him down, he'll scream without any signs of resettling...  I'm not sure how to fix this.
4.  We are swaddling with one arm out but again, as the day goes on, that goes back to two arms IN the swaddle.
5.  Bed time used to be a charm, but now takes .5-2.0 hours to get him to sleep (I fear it is an OT issue but some will say it's UT?)


Schedule we shoot for now is:

E:7am
A:7:20
S:8:20 (sleep wind down starts at 8 and prop starts at 8:10)

E:10:30am
A:10:50
S:11:50

E:2:00 (we keep missing this as he wakes very early from the last night - often at 1 or earlier)
A:2:20  (again, in reality, A time now is earlier since he wakes early from his nap)
S:3:20  (in reality... he is down again at about 2:20ish due to waking early...)

E would be 5 but is 4:30 with much ado to entertain a grumpy baby who woke early again

He cat naps from 5 or 5:30 to 6:30 which is bath time and the feed and then bed time at 7:30 BUT it's been taking extended periods of time to get him to calm to sleep.

He's very broad shouldered so difficult to place him on his side swaddled due to crummy neck alignment then...  He sleeps swaddled on his back... won't fall sleep on tummy (used to with no swaddle).

Shush-pat does not work on his tummy or chest (since sleeping on back) but maybe I'm not sticking with it long enough?

I struggle through the day watching him get more and more OT and knowing that bedtime will be very hard for him and us!

The PLUS!!!!!!  Once alseep, he sleeps through the entire night till 7 with a dream feed at 9:30pm. 

I'm open to suggestions... I fear I have a lot to work on and really don't know where to start.  Wondering if I should move back to a 3 hour EASY?

Thanks in advance!

[MarciaMSPT]

Just wondering how to start changing from 3.5 to 4 without moving bedtime later than 7:30... that is all my little 14 week old son tolerates for bedtime.  He's bottle fed donor breastmilk.  I've been doing a 4:30 feed and then 7 after bath...  any thoughts?

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there, you may well be right that he's getting more OT by the end of ech day, but it could be that he is UT and that's why you are getting 45 minute naps.

However, 45 min naps can also be a sign that your LO hasn't learned to see sooth yet. Seeing as you are essentially a prop in getting him off to sleep each time this could well be a factor. LOs do need to learn to settle themselves and you can help him by using a technique like sh/pat or PUPD. Have you read about either of these sleep training methods?

It will be easier to train him to sooth himself if he is on the right A times. Have you seen this?
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
So those A times do seem a little short in the morning (and probably too long in the afternoon as most LOs need a shorter than normal A time after a short nap).

You mention that your DS cannot stay awake longer than 1hr10 in the mornings, what happens at that time? Is he yawning and rubbing his eyes or is he literally falling asleep? If the former, it is possible that he is just asking for a change of scene rather than a sleep. Tired signs can become a little less reliable as a child gets older.

Perhaps try moving that first nap 10mins later and seeing what happens. If you want to make any significant change though you might need to start some sleep training. How do you feel about that?

[Buttonbobs]

Also, have a look here:

Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY

There is a bit more information about the transition. If you compare the sample routines at the bottom you will see that on 3hr EASY your LO will would hopefully be taking 3 naps of approx 1.5 hours and still having a catnap (CN). By the time you get to a 4hr EASY, you've dropped the fourth nap or CN and your LO may eve be capping the third nap to a CN, this keeps BT more or less the same.

Hope that helps x

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi...

The sh/pat does not work (yet anyway) for me... he is swaddled and on his back... he cries louder than I can shush him and patting seems to make him more unsettled...so am not sure what to do there...but I've also read here that some will work on shsh/pat for entire naps?  Is that a good option for me to try?

I want to do PU/PD but he is 14 weeks old... I thought that three months was too young for this.

Good to know about the yawning and such... NO - he won't fall asleep anywhere but in my arms bouncing... (Oh, besides the front carrier on walks and again sometimes in the carseat but I rarely go anywhere at this point as his catnaps in the car ruin any good nap. 

I do feel like we are at some average A times (or getting close!)  But I feel myself getting into his rhythm of things... for example:  He has a great first nap and that often seems to be it... the rest of the day is very anxious for me.  I will try to be more consistent with his A times though and change it only by maybe 5 minutes a week.  Sounds like this needs to be consistent...the A times.  Should I shorten his morning nap and still wake to feed at 10 instead of 10:30 and remain on the 3 EASY for now?

when do I know he is ready to transition to 3.5 EASY and then to 4 EASY?  I know nothing is cut and dried but this site is a great help!  Thanks!

I would love to start sleep training (and this wasn't a problem until about 3 weeks ago and it took us 2 hours to get him down one night instead of the regular 2 minutes) but dont' know where or how to start.

I began today by bouncing him until asleep and then while humming my song to him, I began to pat his bottom with one hand - am hoping to eventually do that more and the bounce less so that when I get brave enough to put him in the crib from the get go, he will already know the pat (except on his chest or belly).  Any suggestions for how to start or where with sleep training?

Thanks in advance!

[Buttonbobs]

First, you can do PUPD with a 3MO but it has to be adapted appropriately. Shh/pat is usually more appropriate and helps more. It won't necessarily stop him from crying though, if the A time is right he will want to go to sleep but as he hasn't learned yet how to sooth himself he will cry possibly until he sleeps. Can you get your mouth close to his ear as you shh? This may help if he's crying loudly. Also, some LOs don't like the pat and prefer a hand on the tummy or a gentle rub, so you think he might prefer this?

Personally, I would try to settle him with shh/pat for half an hour or so. I knew with myDD if she hadn't settled by this point I was better off getting her up for a bit longer and trying again for another nap in a bit. I certainly wouldn't cap his nap at this age - unless he's going well over 3 hours at a time. As long as he is gaining weight well there is no need to wake him, if he's hungry he will wake.

The indications that your LO is ready to transition to a longer EASY are included in the link I posted above.

If the A time is not right sleep training may not work brilliantly, but it seems like you're getting a good first A time if he's giving you a 1.5 hour plus nap then I'd go for the same A time before the second nap. It may be those longer A times later in the day are slightly too long.

What do you think?

[Buttonbobs]

How're you getting on sweetie?

[MarciaMSPT]

Hey there...

Well, this is the first day I am feeling sane again.  I fell apart last weekend.  A lot of anxiety, weight loss (15 pounds in 3 months - not pregnancy weight either...since my LO is adopted since birth), thyroid issues etc... baby is doing better than mum for sure at this house!   

I'm going to work on keeping A times consistent and then also read about about going in before the 45 minute transition starts to see me DS through these rough times.

Perhaps I should only try one thing at a time.  I have a habit of getting desperate and trying 101 things all at once and then wonder what helped and what made things worse! 

Should I start with consistent A times and then move towards the 45 min wake transition later if I need to?

The site is amazing!  Thanks Buttonbobs for your help!  I'll look at the "above" link you sent about transitioning - must have missed it.   Hugs.

[Erin M]

Perhaps I should only try one thing at a time.  I have a habit of getting desperate and trying 101 things all at once and then wonder what helped and what made things worse! 

^^^^^this is something I think we all do at times!

On that note, I'm going to lock this thread and link it to your other, so you're not getting 101 pieces of advice all at once!
When to transition from 4 naps to 3?