Night Wakings with 6 mo old tomorrow...

[tkymom]

This seems to be a common issue based on other postings but I'll still share what I'm dealing with...

I need help with night wakings.  Unfortunately a few months ago when LO started having trouble going down @ night (b/c I had been doing DF wrong & waking completely) I'd read it was ok to nurse to sleep @ bedtime.  I think he's now dependent on getting nursed to sleep @ bedtime & whenever he wakes @ night.  I'd read here that often the first way they go to sleep is how they expect to go to sleep the rest of the night.  So I've tried the last few nights to nurse him & then put him in his swaddle, sing, & put him in bed (same routine @ naptime when he can fall asleep independently.)  But it hasn't worked.  One night I thought it almost might & last night he was mad when I started singing.  I use to use shush pat to calm him @ nap time & sometimes that would work at night but that doesn't seem to work anymore.  He'll be 6mo tomorrow so I'm thinking maybe he's getting too old for it?  I'm not sure how long to keep doing shush pat before abandoning it.  He has slept through the night a few times randomly so I know he can do it.  I feel so bad I got him to this bad habit that I'm going to have to break.

Oh and I'm still swaddling him but yesterday he started rolling from back to front so I'm going to have to tackle weaning from the swaddle at the same time.  Do you think that would help him have some self soothing options?  Should I introduce a lovie?

I'm still doing a DF, although awhile ago he started waking up before I could go & DF him, so then I'd go in before he'd normally wake up and shush-pat him until when I'd normally DF.  That worked and we had about a week that he didn't wake up (and I wasn't shush-patting), and then he started again so I'm shush-patting him through again now hoping to get him to sleep through and not wake up.  Because if he wakes up then it's hard to get him to go back to sleep w/o feeding him.  Last night was hard after trying to get him to bed w/o nursing and then trying gentle removal when he got up.  He got up an additional time at night and I had to nurse him again!  And then this morning he had a hard time going down for his morning nap!

Here's our EASY:

WU: b/t 6-7am
E: feed 10-15 minutes after WU once he's getting a little fussy after playing in bed
S: 3 hours after wake up (we just did the 3-2 transition about a week ago, after I realized that might be need after accidentally keeping him up so long and then him sleeping independently for 1.5 hr naps!)  He usually sleep 1 hr 20-30 minutes
E: at wake up
S: again 3 hours after WU, again usually 1 hr 20-30min (this is an ideal day, which we've had a few of, although not so consistent I depend on it yet since it's only been a week, but at least I know he can sleep 1.5hr w/o my help now)
E: at WU
S: depending on morning WU time sometime a brief 10 minute catnap about 5pm in the baby carrier to get him through to bedtime
E: feed before bed, about 7:10pm, at which time he falls asleep and usually in bed asleep by 7:30pm
S: 7:30pm
DF: ideally he won't wake up and I'll feed him at 10pm
NW: had been usually one b/t 2-3am

I'm thinking I might abandon trying to drop the night feed for now and work on continuing to have two good 1 1/2 naps/day, which we just recently had a break through on and I don't want to regress there!  And then work on weaning the swaddle which needs to happen since he's starting to roll over.  I do have a woombie and currently he's in the miracle blanket in the woombie so I know my first step is to get him to sleep in just the woombie.  Honestly I can handle waking up once for a quick night feed if necessary for awhile.  I know eventually it will disappear.  My daughter had a night feed for a long time b/c she was so small and I was afraid to drop it because she was having trouble gaining weight.

So I don't know if I even have one specific question as much as looking for some thoughts/confirmation/advice.  My husband is supportive and I tell him all this but I'm pretty much to one who does all the sleep training, nursing (obviously), etc, so I guess I'm just looking for some other momma's thoughts!  Thanks!

[tkymom]

Just me again, to add that perhaps it would be helpful to drop the dreamfeed and just see when he wakes up so I'm not disturbing his sleep, even though I'll probably be woken up earlier?  Or perhaps since we've always done it we should keep it.  I don't know where to find info on the dream feeds... I think I saw it somewhere once but I'm not sure where anymore. 

[tkymom]

And I also just read how he's probably going to be going through the 6 mo growth spurt and the next mental leap so for now I'm ok with keeping the one night feed (hopefully that's all he'll wake up for tonight) for now and then working on dropping them later.  Still I'd love some feedback/advice!  Thanks! 

[Layla]

Hi there

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. With regards to night feeds - I always fed to sleep at night with all my babies and I wouldn't be specifically waking him up or doing the same routine as you do at nap time. I would think that would wake him up even more... its too much stimulation. At night you want to feed and straight back to bed. Honestly, I don't even change nappy (touch wood we haven't had soiled nappy for a while).

I think your routine looks good BUT I wouldn't be pushing for an extra 10mins to tie over to bedtime. Often when they drop the last nap (catnap), you want to make beditme a little earlier so I would actually be looking at something like this:
6.30am - wake
9.30-11 - morning nap
2-3.30 - afternoon nap
6.30 - bedtime

Often, with the dropping of last nap, the extra 30mins they used to do at that nap will tag onto night sleep and when bedtime is pushed too late or there is too long of a stretch between last nap and bedtime so I would make sure A before bedtime is also no more than 3hrs.

With regards to the DF - sometimes (particularly as they get older), it disturbs their night sleep more than help them. So I think you're onto something - try not doing the DF and see how long he will sleep for naturally. He might do a long (5-7 hrs) stretch and then won't need another feed until morning wake up. I never did the DF, I just let mine wake when they'd wake and feed .

I try and follow the same feeding pattern as during the day. So if he wakes any earlier than 4hrs, try and settle him and if its more, then feed. I think 2 night feeds at this age are ok though. How many times is he actually waking up at night? Are you thinking of getting him down to just 1 night feed? My LO (also 6 months) seems to have dropped to 1 night feed but its not really consistent and some nights she will sleep straight through and then other nights she will wake up to 2 times. My goal is to get her down to 1 NF by 8-9 months and then work on weaning the last one before she turns one and once solids are established. Our routine is similar to yours (as in, we're also down to 2 naps) but I do try and squeeze in a top up feed about an hour before bedtime. I suppose this is our cluster feed. So I do BF at wake up, after morning nap, after afternoon nap and offer more about 5pm (an hour or so before bedtime), then we do bath and then final BF right before bedtime.

Also ditching the swaddle might be a good idea as it could be that he needs more freedom to move around. I've attached a link for you to have a look through which might give you some ideas on how to wean the swaddle Paci or Swaddle Weaning Success Stories Here

Let me know what you think

[tkymom]

Thanks so much!  Do you know are there any posts on dropping the DF or tips for doing that?  Since he sometimes wakes up by 9:30pm (we had broken this habit for about a week but then it came back) I figure I'll at least shush-pat until 10pm or 10:15pm and then go to bed and see what happens, even though I'll probably be woken up sooner than later since he's use to eating around that time now.  And then eventually try not shush-patting and see what happens.  I use to have success with shush-pat but it seems like it doesn't work anymore, he just gets more and more worked up.  I don't know how long to keep doing it before giving up... any thoughts?  Once he's awake at night it's hard to get him back to sleep without feeding him, but if I should try something else if he wakes up earlier than 4 hours I just need to know how long to try it before giving up.  Thanks!  Thanks for the suggestion of the top up feed, I'll try that instead of the little nap and then to bed earlier (although I hope it doesn't mean we'll get up earlier since this morning it was 5:50am that he was up and happy so I think he'd gotten a full nights sleep - he coos a little then is quiet for a little bit more and then starts fussing.... maybe if I went and tried to settle him he'd go back to sleep since it's not 12 hours - he's never really slept a full 12 hours of nighttime sleep.  Thanks again!  I'll also start trying to wean the swaddle. 

[Layla]

Usually waking up in the first part of the night is a sign of overtiredness... would you be able to post what his routine has been like for the past couple of days? He might not need 12hr night but you should at least aim to put him down by 7pm... especially if he's waking up early.

Here is a link on how to wean the DF "How do I implement/drop the dreamfeed?"

With regards to shh/pat - around this age some LOs get more annoyed than settled when you shh/pat and some parents move to pu/pd. However my LO would have a meltdown if I kept picking her up and putting her down so I've modified the shh/pat method. I go in and shh and gently rub her tummy and once she's settling down I leave the room. I wait outside and listed to her cries. If she's mantra crying, I leave her alone but if her cry escalates and its a "I need you mummy" cry, then I go back in and shh again and once she's settling, I leave again. So you could try something like that. Maybe just try shushing without the patting.

[tkymom]

Thanks so much! I put him to bed at 6:30pm tonight, he woke up a bit before 6am this morning!  I could tell he was tired, hopefully not overtired and will sleep until the dream feed tonight... When you calm using pat/shush or a variation on it, should you just keep using it until it works, at what point do you give up?  I suppose if you give up and use a different method then you're reinforcing whatever the bad behavior is but sometimes it's hard to keep pat/shushing a screaming baby for longer than 20 minutes or so... is there a time limit or just keep going until they're calm again and eventually they'll figure out to calm down?  It use to work better than it does now, I'm trying to figure out what to do to calm him in his bed now, if I need to change my method and to exactly what.  Thanks for the link on the dream feed as well, I think we'll slowly try to wean that out... hopefully it's an ok time to do that even though he's still waking once in the night usually too. 

[tkymom]

So big fail... he was up at 8:20pm (which I guess since I put him to bed an hour earlier than I almost ever have that would equate to 9:20pm), which he has woken up at that time before (usually b/t 9:20-10pm before I do a DF at 10pm).  I tried pat shushing him for almost an hour which didn't work and eventually just fed him   So I have no idea what to expect tonight.  I'm not sure how to calm him anymore!  I feel like I should just go back to what I was doing, why did I ever want to try and drop the night feeds, and just be content where we were, it feels like we're heading backward.  I have always tried to keep bedtime at a very consistent time, the base of the rest of the day hopefully.  I'm also dreading that in about 3 weeks we're going to do daylight savings time, and then travel for a week, so everything is going to continue to be messed up!  Obviously keeping the dream feed for now

[Layla]

((hugs))

With regards to the time change, you will have to work on slowly pushing his whole day forward. With the travel, his routine may be messed up a little but when you get back home, you can work on getting him back on track. He's only 6 mo and there is plenty of time to wean habits. What time was his last nap? What did his day look like today?

[tkymom]

Well this morning he's up @ 5:25am!  Our day yesterday:
wu 5:50am
E 6:05
S 9:10 struggled to sleep a bit, had started earlier
E 10:30
S 1:40 tried not swaddling but didn't work so a liitle later again
E 3
E 510 a bit late b/c went on a walk & he didn't sleep inn the stroller
E 6:10 top up b4 bed

[tkymom]

Sorry on my phone so it's not letting me do all I want.  To continue...
E 6:10a nursed to sleep
S 630
     Up @ 820 tried pat shush for an hour
E 920 nurse to sleep
E 1am an hour b4 he ever normally gets up
WU 5:25am
so I'm not sure... we're actually going to be travelling thhe next 2 days so I won't be workong on it much except hopefully the nights will go ok.  Going to pack...

[Layla]

Sorry to hear about the EW.... Enjoy your trip and we can look at things again when you return