Author Topic: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?  (Read 2665 times)

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Offline creations

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never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« on: October 14, 2013, 10:33:24 am »
DS dropped his nap about a month or so ago.  He had been having 1hr 30 - 1hr 45 every day (we'd tried some NNDs in the past which had been disastrous) then he was poorly and did a massive 2.5hr nap and hasn't napped since.  Instead he's had 10 - 30 mins in the car a couple of times per week, with EBT and appeared to be fine on this for a good while but the OT gradually crept in.
Recently we've had a couple of 4am NWs, chatty and asking to get up, eventually going back to sleep after an hour or two but shattered the next day so I've tried to car nap him.
Friday he was getting really OT and I invited him to nap in my bed and he agreed, so we both napped, broken but 2hrs, this was a first, he's never napped in my bed.
Saturday he fell asleep in the car so I let him have about 30 - 40 mins.  Sat night not a peep, 12 hrs STTN
Brings us to last night, Sunday, loooong NW from 4am to about 6am, asking to get up, saying he couldn't sleep and saying he wanted it to be morning.  I'm not 100% sure what time he fell asleep.  Next thing I knew it was 8.30am  :o  we have never slept this late!

our routine
WU 6.15 - 6.45 (usually around 6.30 for a wee then back into bed and waits for morning lights, rare to sleep until lights on at 6.45 he doesn't tag on well in the morning, only with earlier BT, it's taken a long time to get morning WU this late)
BT 6.30 whether or not he's had a micro nap in the car

I'm pretty sure these odd 4am NWs must be OT based on his mood in the day and it being only 9.5hrs sleep, must be OT/EW.

So, finally to my questions - with along night wake and then a very late WU, when to do BT today??
Should I still to his regular BT at 6.30pm?
Do you think 6.30pm for his regular BT is too late considering this OT build up creeping in?


Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 10:59:35 am »
I would do 630 still because he had that long me so didn't actually get more sleep than usual did he? When k dropped his nap around 2 an a bit we needed 14 hr nights and any less and we got me. So if you are having me I would get him down normal today and try 6 on a regular day iiwm. Good luck.

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 11:16:34 am »
Thanks KM. It's what I was thinking but it's so good to get a second opinion.

(14hr nights! wow!  Most we ever had was a couple of 13hr nights when he went from 2 to 1 nap.  These 12 hr nights have been so strange for me as he's only ever done 10.5 to 11 before)


Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 11:26:25 am »
K was like that before he dropped his nap, rarely got more than 10.5 hr nights with Naps. Only discovered the 14 hr nights when I put him to bed early by accident one day misreading the clock and he slept 6pm to 8am. Then I just kept doing it and so did he. If I got him down late he would only do 12 hrs instead.

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 12:18:29 pm »
I'd go for normal bedtime too, he has had a relatively standard amount of sleep but broken up.

We normally got 11 hours total sleep pre-nap drop, but got a few (delicious) 12hr nights during the 1-0. I'm afraid it didn't last, but it was enjoyed while we had it!
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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 13:36:58 pm »
I have wondered just how long I might be able to get his night to go.  I tend to struggle with the new routine times for a short while (making dinner so early for example and really watching the clock to keep on track) but adapt reasonably quickly where as DP is slow to adapt as he doesn't like changes in routine. I'm going to struggle to get DP on track with an even earlier BT for DS but I think we must do it to prevent this OT build up.

Thanks for your thoughts and support!


Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 13:55:32 pm »
Yes, it is much easier on your own. Big snack mid afternoon and then a really quick tea?

Let us know how you get on.
My 'little man' - kind-hearted Spirited whirlwind, 2008
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Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 19:12:22 pm »
Good luck

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 21:46:06 pm »
Thanks :)

BT was very cooperative at 6.30pm but he's had cry outs and self settle every hour since.
I wish he'd sleep a bit later in the morning when he needs it!  It's taken many months to get him waking as late as 6.15/6.30am and the clocks go back in a couple of weeks...  ::)

Aiming for 6pm BT tomorrow and thereafter, will update when I see how he settles into it.


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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 19:26:41 pm »
Shame about the wakes but glad he went down. Guess he was ot by then, maybe we should have gone earlier as his night was disjointed?
I am also dreading the clock change.

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 21:18:57 pm »
Oh it's been awful!
Looong loooong NWs, I'm so sleep deprived :(  I've had 2 - 4 hrs sleep (and even that disrupted) every night, it is seriously getting to me, the other night I started snapping at him to get to sleep and eventually burst out crying - at which point he put his hand on my face and said "don't worry mummy, you can go to sleep now" and lay himself back down and was finally quiet! (but he still didn't sleep for another hour or so, I could tell by his breathing and fidgeting). Oh I feel terrible, I keep apologising to him for my mood and also explaining that lack of sleep makes us all grouchy because our bodies need the sleep.

So yesterday I started the 6pm BT, BUT, it was an unusual day for us, with an hours drive to another town then a bit more than an hour back and he napped in the car much longer than the 10 mins or so a couple of times per week he's been having. 20 mins on the way there and possibly and hour on the way back. He was so tired, and so grouchy when I woke him to come indoors.  No complaints about BT routine, bath or BT PD at 6pm but then he messed around for a further 45 mins making BT even later than norm. (needs a wee, needs a drink, singing, tossing and turning...).  Long NW and EW. Awful. I don't know how he has the energy to get up and read/play/move!
After another looong NW (couple hrs) and me getting snappy again  :-[ he finally went to sleep and I was just about to nod off when he woke screaming from a nightmare, running and shouting for me to let him out of his room, he really needed a hug that time (I always have patience and sympathy when he really NEEDS something) and it resulted in another long NW and him upset that I wouldn't let him stay in my bed...settles in his bed, quiet but not sleeping (again) and I'm finally nodding off (again) when he jumps up and says "Mummy emergency, something is wrong with my penis"  ::)

Did 6pm BT again tonight after a more normal day, no nap, although he's had his flu jab today.  He went down easily but a screaming NW an hour later, drenched in sweat, possibly a slight temp from his jab.
I'll have to keep on with the 6pm a while more to know if it's going to help because so far it's just been a nightmare.


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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 07:42:26 am »
Ouch, that sounds like really hard work! Can DP or your mum help? Mind him whilst you take a nap? We always alternated at weekends when there had been rough nights - lie in for me, afternoon nap for DH.
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Offline Aishi

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 08:04:05 am »
Hi hon
Just jumping in to send hugs and let you know that it will get better! the 1-0 is brutal weve beem going through it since may (i have a 27 page thread lol) and its finally got better after months of 5am wus and serious ot, long nws, ewu, bt shenanigans etc etc. Your ds is prob really ot- my ds was the same.seriously ot but still full of energy and too wired.to.sleep even tho he was clearly shattered.

Have u got a plan your trying to stick to cos what i.was advised was that consistency is key. We got to a point naps of even 15-20 min was causing ridiculously late Bts and went to set bt of 7. it wasnt the magic answer but after months of 7 pm bt and 5"am wus he did eventually crash sleep and slowly began to cu...

If your ds tacks on Then i would stick to ebt and hope he can cu. And keep days to 10.5-11 if u can...otherwise set bt to srt ds body.clock may be way to go but ill be honest its ugly and brutal!!

hth!
aishi :)

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2013, 17:49:55 pm »
Thanks ladies, your thoughts and support are most most welcome!

Unfortunately there isn't opportunity for me to nap.  I do get a lie in most Sunday mornings when DP is here to get DS up which I'm grateful for, I get and hr or two.  But otherwise there just isn't chance.

Aishi we are on set BT now, have been since he turned 1yo (well, just before at the 2 - 1 drop).  BT only changes for a 'big' routine change so for instance up to about a month ago he had a nap daily and 8pm BT. Dropped nap and moved BT to 6.30pm.  His absolute max sleep in 24hrs is 12.5 but I mean max, he can't do that every day, more usually it would be more like 11.5hrs (1.5 hr nap and say 10 hr night).  Trying 6pm BT now to see if he will do a longer night, drop the NWs/EWs and avoid the OT that gradually built over the last month.  The car naps he's been having (10 mins or so) are not every day and I never change BT as a result, I see them as his choice to catch up if he wants to, other wise he'll stay awake.  I'm really not into trying to prevent the occasional car nap, for me the stress of trying to keep him awake (which is impossible if he decides to nod off) is just not worth it, there is not particular time of day he'll take a micro car nap could be morning or afternoon so I would only be able to fully avoid them by keeping us both home all day every day - just not happening.  As he doesn't tack on in the morning it's up to me to decide BT to get him the longest sleep possible...

...last night was better :)  No super long NW, a couple of disturbances and self settle, a stress dream he needed me for but all in all a great improvement, right up until he woke at 6am.  I'm happy for the better night and I managed 5 hr of broken sleep myself which is a big improvement, however, he still didn't do more than a 12hr night and if this continues all I've really done is shift his night earlier by 30 mins.  Not great when the clocks are going to shift it another hr and leave us with 5am WUs :-\

so yesterday
WU I don't know, I think about 4.30am when he woke from the stress dream, doubt he slept again after that esp as his penis was doing odd things
no nap
BT and S 6pm
NW minimal, stress dream but quickly settled
WU 6am

today
WU 6am
car micro nap about 10 mins (1.30pm)
BT 6.00
S Well it is now almost 6.45 and he isn't asleep yet (2 call backs for wee, 1 for drink, 1 for bed covers having moved)

And his eyes are gunked up, maybe from the flu jab yesterday.

I'm going to continue several more days with the 6pm BT, see if he can get back to a 6.15 or 6.30 WU.  If not though I think I'll go the other way and shift BT later again. I'm actually starting to suspect UT rather than OT.  A long time ago (I mean long long time ago) KM was the only one who suggested UT in an EASY that looked to everyone like OT, she was absolutely right and I've been mindful of it ever since.  If I'm wrong, moving us to say a 7pm BT (it will still be 6.30 WU) will reduce his nights, but it won't be THAT much of a loss considering the clock change approaching yk.

OK. Will keep you posted, I know you are just eagerly anticipating my next update  ;)


Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: never had WU this later before - when to do BT today?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 17:56:00 pm »
It sounds like you have a plan! I'd be tempted to think ut as well - darn these kids who need less sleep than we think!
My 'little man' - kind-hearted Spirited whirlwind, 2008
My love, my everything - BabyTwo, Nov 2015