11MO NW due to 2-1 transition?

[m.ned]

Not sure if this post belongs on this board or the naps board. Please move if need be!

My DS is almost 11 months and has just gone through the 2-1 transition. We started gradually and are now on 1 nap a day pretty much 95% of the time. He does not have a lovie, is not teething at the moment, and eats solids well. Our routine is great during the day except I think it's causing a long NW and I'm not sure why. He is an independent sleeper and does not have any milestones right now that I believe could be causing the long NW. His typical EASY is as follows:

E 7am (nurse both sides)
A   
E 9am (solids: yogurt & fruit)
A
E 11am (nurse both sides)
A
S 11:30-1:30 (will sleep up to 2.5 hrs, but I have been waking him at 2hr mark b/c of the NW)
E 1:30 (finger foods: fruits, veggies, meat)
A
E 330 (nurse both sides)
A
E 5pm (veggies puree, rice cereal, fruit finger food)
A
W/D 630 - bath, sleepsack, story, nurse both sides (this fluctuates based on what time he woke from his nap and if he is starting to get overtired. He can usually handle 5.5-6hrs of A time after a long nap)
S 7pm
NW 230am-4am

He has been down to 1 feeding at night for a few months now. I have been weaning the feeding slowly by cutting down the number of minutes he nurses each night, but even with the weaning, he rarely stays awake for an 1hr+ during the night. The long NW just started when we transitioned to 1 nap and has been going on for a week or so. The NW is usually around the same time every night so I don't think it's teething. He's not really upset, just wide awake. Sometimes playing, sometimes just standing in the crib whining. It usually takes 1hr+ before he falls back asleep and he will wake in the morning grumpy and stay that way until his first nap.

Now here's the strange thing. The other day, his EASY was almost exactly the same except he woke from his nap after 1hr15minutes. Was a little grumpy at first, but handled his A time well and was in bed asleep by 645pm (after 6hr A time). He slept great, didn't wake until 530am, nursed for a few minutes, then went back to sleep until 715am. He was in a great mood the entire day and did not have his usual morning grumpiness! I hesitate thinking of shortening his nap that much, but he slept so well that night. Yesterday he was back to the normal EASY, napped for 2hrs and was awake for an hour last night! What should I do?

[Haribo2012]

Hi hun, I think maybe your A times are a bit long in the afternoon. My LO at 17 months only does 5.5-6 hours A after a long nap. 11 months is quite early to be on 1 nap permanently, did LO start refusing naps etc? Maybe you could do a CN in the morning then a later nap to get to a decent BT.
I would make your BT 12 hours max after WU and if nap is less than 2 hours make the day shorter.  I certainly wouldn't wake at 2 hours if your sticking to 1 nap, leave LO to sleep so A isn't as long to BT.
I would've thought 4.5 hours is prob correct A at 11 months but someone might have to correct me as I can't remember totally.
Night wakings could be build up of OT and the good night you had the other night might be as LO just crashed.

[m.ned]

Hi! Thank you for your reply! His A times have always been high, but yes, I agree 5-6 hours is alot. When he was still on 2 naps, we were doing 4.5hr A time and each nap could be no more than half an hour or he would be up multiple times at night and 5am EW that would not budge. He has done much better with one nap, and like I said, sometimes if he's super fussy or not going to make it a full 4.5 hrs in the morning, I'll put him down early and he'll have two naps that day.

I have tried to put him to bed after 4.5 hrs in the afternoon (super early bedtime, like 530), and he is wide awake and plays in his crib for a good 1.5hr.

I'll try shortening his A to 4.5 hrs today and putting him to bed early and we'll see how it goes. I'll get back to you!

[m.ned]

Okay here was yesterday's EASY:

E 7am (nurse both sides)
A   
E 9am (solids: yogurt & fruit)
A
E 11am (nurse both sides)
A
S 11:05-1:00
E 1:30 (finger foods: fruits, veggies, meat)
A
E 330 (nurse both sides)
A
E 430pm (veggies puree, rice cereal, fruit finger food)
A
W/D 530 - bath, sleepsack, story, nurse both sides
S 6pm
NW 330am

Good news is that you were right, putting him to bed earlier did prevent the middle of the night crib party! He woke, nursed for 3 minutes, and went back to sleep within 10 minutes on his own. However, he did wake up at 5:40am! Usually when I put him to bed early, he will sleep longer than 12 hrs, but idk. Do you think the early waking is from him being overtired still or from going to bed early?

[Haribo2012]

I would prob guess at OT but then he did  nearly a 12 hour night which is good so I would just stick with it for now then you can push day later.

[Haribo2012]

How did last night go?x

[m.ned]

Hey! We had another good night. Yesterday's EASY was different because he was up so early. We did two naps. One from 945-1030 and the other from 230-4. He was asleep by 730pm and slept until 630am! Was up once to nurse a bit but went right back to sleep. I think you were absolutely right about him being overtired! Thank you so much for your help. I'm going to keep doing a super early bedtime or revert to two naps when need be to keep him from having too much A.

He woke up from his nap today at 1pm (he went down late b/c I was watching a friend's kids and I had a hard time getting him to go to sleep). I'll put him to bed no later than 6pm. Fingers crossed he doesn't wake up at 530am again, but if he does, so be it!

[Haribo2012]

That's great to hear, glad things are better! I know for us even if we get EW but it's on the back of a good 11/12 hour fully restful night my LO copes so much better with pushing his day a bit!

2-1 is horrid and at 17 months we still sometimes have a 2 nap day if EW or I want to be out somewhere over lunchtime....sometimes 10-20 mins CN does wonders to combat OT!

Never be afraid to try EBT u know it sometimes means an earlier wake up but then I just think I've had a nice long evening to myself lol.....u have to make yourself feel good about at EW right ;-) x

[m.ned]

Yes! That evening to myself when he is asleep by 6pm is priceless He didn't get the best nap yesterday so he was in bed asleep by 5:45pm. Not sure if it's the night weaning or being overtired, but LO cried for 2 hrs last night! UGH! He was up at 330 (a usual wake up time) and with the night weaning I have decreasing the number of minutes I feed him each night. Last night was our first night at 2 minutes and he definitely protested He cried from 330-530. We tried settling with PU/PD and rubbing his back, even picking him up a couple of times but nothing would work. By the time it was 530, it was a full 12 hours since he had last had a full feeding (when I put him to bed), so I tried to get him to settle a bit so when I fed him he didn't think he was being rewarded for his behavior. He then went back to sleep until 7am. I don't know if I did the right thing or not! What do you think would be the best option in that situation? I'm so frustrated with all of it right now!

[Haribo2012]

Oh dear hate long nw...you sure no teeth? Could be OT if nap was very short our OT NW tend to be screaming fits!
If you think it's feed related maybe offer some water in a cup? Break the cycle!
I'd try and stick to 1 type of resettling so if you think teeth give meds then do your chosen method! A lot of LO find up bit of PU/pd stimulating at this age!
Have you read the walk in walk out v gradual withdrawal links might be more age appropriate now!?

Any change in routine can take a good few days to settle x

[m.ned]

I only did PU/PD because he was standing up in the crib and he doesn't know how to get down while wearing his sleepsack . If I pick him up for some gentle rocking (not until he falls asleep but just to calm him - usually works) he just screams and pushes against me, probably because he wants to be fed. If rocking doesn't work I will rub his back in his crib. The problem with our usual settling techniques is that he settles, but just lays there with his eyes open. This is what makes me think it still might be overtired. I did look at the gradual withdrawal and I think that that is basically what I'm doing, but correct me if I'm wrong. During the night he tends to be too hysterical for walk in walk out He is SO close to sleeping through the night, he just needs that extra little push! I will try offering a cup of water tonight and I'll let you know how it goes!

[Haribo2012]

My LO gets hysterical with wi/wo so we did GW for a bit! I just sat next to cot patting mattress saying lay down sleepy time, but does sound OT to me.
Keep me posted, fingers crossed for u!x

[m.ned]

Okay so we have officially abandoned 1 nap (for now). After having one 2.5 hour nap on Saturday and going to bed early, he was up at 5am on Sunday! After 2 naps yesterday, he was not up during the night for 1.5hrs and woke at a normal hour. I do have to shorten his first nap to 45 minutes in order for him to sleep, but his second nap he goes down for 1.5! We'll stick with that for now. I had no idea the one nap would affect him so much! I figured getting a chunk of sleep like that would make it impossible for him to get overtired. I was definitely wrong! Thank you so much for your help!

[Haribo2012]

It's a quirky age and we went a bit crazy for a while.
Sounds like your doing a fantastic job and good idea to keep that first nap shorter, we eventually just got down to a 15/20 min CN before moved to 1 nap.
Nice happy post :-) x

[Layla]

Awesome update and just FYI, I also tried 1 naps with DD1 and DD2 at around 12 months and then it all went downhill. We stayed with the short am/long pm schedule until dd1 transitioned to 1 nap around 15/16 months and dd2 around 18 months. You might have the odd 1 nap here and there (if he sleeps in or if he decides not to sleep in the morning) and that's ok too. Don't assume that he needs to be transitioned right away if he misses a morning nap here or there until he continually starts doing it

[Clairehv]

Great post. I have a 13 month old and we are struggling with long NW's (due to teeth I think) but was also thinking we maybe nearing the 2-1 transition so this was interesting to read before I post my own query

[m.ned]

Hey! Thank you ladies so much for the support. The routine has definitely been wonky and changes from day to day, but that just works for us right now. Most days we are on a 45min morning nap and 1.5hour afternoon nap and that has been working well. However, a few days last week (and alot in the past month), LO has had an early waking. It's usually 5/5:30. Sometimes he will get up for the day at that time, but what has been happening is I think he is ready to get up for the day so I get him up to feed him only for him to fall back asleep! When this happens, he'll sleep until 8! Yesterday he had only one nap, was in bed and asleep by 7pm, woke up this morning at 530, nursed and went back to sleep until 815am. We were going to shoot for one nap today, but he only slept for 45 minutes when he went down at noon, so we will probably have to squeeze in an afternoon nap somewhere! Yikes!

My question is, DH and I have been NW. We were successful with getting him through the entire night without eating on Saturday night (yes!) but this morning was weird. He woke at 4am and resettled himself (yes!), then like I said woke at 530am. I don't know what to do, whether to treat it as an EW due to the routine or as another NW. What do you ladies think?

[Layla]

For now I would probably treat it as a night feed. Could you maybe increase solid/milk intake during the day or perhaps offer a light snack before bedtime (like some yoghurt). That early morning feed is the last and the hardest one to break