Author Topic: Short nights and short naps  (Read 6489 times)

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Offline mumofalice

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Short nights and short naps
« on: October 17, 2013, 13:47:26 pm »
DS has just turned 19 months and I am so fed up with his sleep.

TBH I should've posted about this a long time ago but I just kept telling myself it would settle down eventually: when we got to 1 nap for instance or when I could stop blaming his teeth or developmental leaps or SR, etc, etc, etc - but now I'm not beginning to think that he's just a rubbish sleeper and always will be  :-\

My DD (6 yo) has always been HSN and sensitive to OT - due to her touchy nature I've always paid close attention to her sleep needs. Even now at 6yo she will take a nap when it's on offer (or she'll take the option of quiet time in her room and fall asleep).

DS is a whole different kettle of fish and I'm ashamed to say that even now, 19 months down the line, I still haven't worked him out at all  :( When we did the 'know your baby' quiz he came out equal in all personalities - from both DH's and my answers even though they were different! I've never worked out whether he's HSN, LSN or ASN - I suspect he won't be HSN like his older sister but at the same time my 'instinct' (if I do have one) just tells me that he doesn't get enough sleep - but that he can 'survive' on less than he needs and doesn't meltdown like DD - iykwim?

I do blame myself a little bit - with DD I didn't have another LO to work around and therefore I could commit more time to working on ST with her, which is a good job really as I don't think she would've coped with constant sleep disruption. When DS arrived we had nursery trips twice a day, swimming lessons, CM pick ups, etc - there never seemed to be a day that had the same routine  :-\ And that meant that we never seemed to have two days the same routine wise from him either - every so often I would get a decent night or decent nap, maybe even 2 days in a row and I'd think we'd finally cracked it - only for it all to fall apart again.

We've had (what I call) EWs for so long that I now believe that 6am is a lie-in! When I was BF I used to envy all those Mums who had the 5am-ish feed - and their babies would go back off to sleep. I would've happily have carried on with that 5am feed (even now) if it meant DS would go back to sleep til 7am (we've always had the 7am start of day rule - since starting BW with DD at 10 weeks  ;)) DS weaned himself from BF at around 14 months - we were just down to the BT feed more or less and he refused one night (I *think* he was severely OT) and then refused it every night after too, just like that  :'( 

For a while now (what seems like forever) I've been trying set nap and BT as trying to work out A times just never worked this time round at all. Nap time is 12.30 and BT at 7pm - WU varies between 5.30 and 6.50 (very rare). The last few days I thought we were progressing again as we had 2 or 3 days in a row when we made it to 6.15am or after. I'm not sure if the nap should be earlier or not but on the 2 days I work I pick DS up from Mum's or CM's and it's the earliest I can get him down so I try and stay consistent the other days too.

He goes to sleep fairly quickly for naps - I'd say within 5 mins but BT he can be 'talking' for up to half an hour. When he wakes in the morning - I don't rush in to him as he doesn't cry out, just chats for a while. I go to him if the chatting turns to crying or if it's time to get him up - on those rare occasions that he's woken near to 7am.

His naps are often under 2hrs (which I *think* he needs to have a restorative nap, right?) and I would say that 9/10 he wakes up crying from them - which makes me think he's not rested  :-\ Sometimes if I go in and lie him down (he's tends to be sitting up when crying) and give him his muslin (lovie) he will got back off for a bit - other times he will get more upset so I just get him up. I don't have the luxury of time to resettle him for hours as we have to collect DD from school.

Talking of school run - need to go and get DD now (and believe it or not DS is still napping LOL so will have to wake him!).

BBL - in the meantime if anyone has any words of wisdom they would be much appreciated  :-*

Offline anna*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 14:15:24 pm »
What's a 'normal' day's routine Berni?





Offline mumofalice

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 23:38:43 pm »
Hey Anna, thanks for popping by  :-* I wish there was a 'normal' - that's part of the problem I just don't know where I am day to day  :P

Ideally I would like it to be:
WU 7am (never going to happen)
Nap 12.15/30 for 2 hrs (more would be lovely  ;))
BT 7pm

I just don't know if I'm being realistic - as I said DD was HSN so I wonder if I'm just expecting too much  :-\ My gut feeling is (and always has been) that he just doesn't get enough sleep - but as he's generally a happy little man it's sooo hard to tell. I've never been able to read his tired signs - in fact I'd swear blind he didn't have any!

Our days go something like this:
WU - varies btw 5.30 on a bad day and 6.50 on a very good day (these are rare)
Nap - 12.15/30 for btw 1h 20m and 1h 50m - every so often we might get a longer nap 2h 15m but again these are not the norm
BT - aim for 6.45/7pm - he used to be out like a light but recently he chats for about half an hr

We also get lots of crying out in the night - sometimes he SS but other times I have to go in and lay him down.

He is an independent sleeper (maybe I did manage to do one thing right!) as in he goes to sleep independently but he seems to struggle with going back off if he wakes up, iykwim? I don't have a video monitor but my theory is that he sits up when he wakes (cos I find him sitting when I go in) and he can't seem to lay back down and settle again - unless I do it for him, but again this doesn't work every time.

My gut feeling is that a lot of the time he is OT but he just seems to handle it - or maybe he's just really LSN  :-\ All I know is that I feel more like a FTM with him than I did with DD - none of the things I 'learnt' with DD work for DS. DD didn't go to one nap til she was this age (DS has been on one nap for a while - in the hope it would improve things) and when she was sleeping min 12h nights and napping for 2.5/3h - in fact I would often have to wake her.

I also think that maybe sometimes his day is too long (esp when he has the pre 6am WU) but there's not much more I can do. DS just has to fit in with DD's routine - which includes afterschool activities as well as the school run, poor little guy doesn't have a chance really  :(

Offline anna*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 07:51:15 am »
It does sound a bit OT. Any chance you could so a couple of 4.5hr morning A times to see if you get a long nap? Does he tack on if you do am early bed?





Offline mumofalice

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 13:23:16 pm »
I would love to do a couple of 4.5hr mornings but I really struggle - which is why I was hoping that getting to the (illusive long) one nap stage would sort out the problems.

The two days a wk he's in childcare (with Mum and CM) I pick him up as soon as I can after work but I can't get him down for a nap before 12.15pm at the earliest - usually nearer 12.30pm. On Monday and Friday we do classes - so I struggle then too  :-\ Plus I thought going for set nap and BT meant sticking to the times as much as possible - but maybe I understood wrong?

TBH I don't think he tacks on with EBT but as I struggle to get him in bed earlier due to DD's schedule I guess I haven't really tried it - tonight might be the time tho cos he was awake before 6.30am, nap at 12.25pm (prob asleep by 12.30) and woke crying at just before 2pm - I left him a few mins to see if he would settle, he didn't so I laid him down and said it was nap time but I'm going to have to get him up as he's not settling  :(

Offline anna*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 13:30:52 pm »
Yes it does but it seems like set naps aren't working for you right now? If you suspect OT then maybe just one 4.5 morning A would get him a nice long nap that would help. That definitely sounds like an OT nap today. There's no way mine could have handled 6hrs+ A time at 19 months. I know it's really hard with an older one - maybe all you can do is ride it out :(





Offline mumofalice

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2013, 18:35:26 pm »
Yes it does but it seems like set naps aren't working for you right now?
Think that's an understatement LOL - I really don't feel like anything is working . . . I know it could be much worse, but my gut feeling is that it could be better too  :-\ I've always said that DS was BW-proof, so maybe I am just wishful thinking.

Friday night I managed to get him down a bit earlier but not much in the end - think it was 6.45pm. He woke at 5.17am on Saturday  :o I went in and laid him down, said it was BT and left him. I dozed on and off til just before 7am and I think he probably did the same - tho he may just have chatted the whole time as I could always hear him whenever I 'woke'. I put him down for a nap at 11.45am - was aiming for earlier but we had to pop out in the am and it took longer than I'd anticipated  ::) He did go to sleep fairly quickly but woke at 1.20pm, I left him to see if he would SS but he didn't so got him up. Was hoping to do EBT but after 2 parties with DD in the pm we struggled once again so it was 6.45pm. The good news is that I didn't hear him til 6.30am this morning - that's a really good night for us.

Early(ish) nap again today (11.45am) but took a while to settle - chatted til after 12. Woke around 1.30pm and once again didn't settle  :-\ BT at 6.50pm, chatted for a good 20mins before going to sleep.

I just don't feel like he gets enough sleep for a 19 mo - but maybe I'm wrong.

There's no way mine could have handled 6hrs+ A time at 19 months.
I don't think he can really - he just does somehow  :-\ Very hard to see tired signs  :(

I know it's really hard with an older one - maybe all you can do is ride it out :(
It's way harder than I'd thought it would be - everyone else seems to make it work somehow. I just feel like I'm failing big time  :'(

Offline C&B&E

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 19:57:46 pm »
Hugs berni. No advice really, but we are in a similar boat and I just wanted to say that not everyone seems to be able to make it work  ;). Ev has always been a terrible sleeper, and we still have NW most nights, ew's every day,  and she is definitely ot. But like your DS, she seems to be able to 'cope' with it (much more than touchy, hsn ds) and so in some ways we are just riding it out. I'm not sure what else we can do  :-\.
Can you throw in some early naps/ebt at weekends?
Claire x



Offline anna*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 21:32:56 pm »
I just don't feel like he gets enough sleep for a 19 mo - but maybe I'm wrong.

On the other hand though - if he's generally happy, generally sleeps OK at night (I know EWs are a pain) - what other measure of 'enough sleep' is there? I mean it may be true that more sleep would be 'better', but if he's happy and thriving then whatever he's getting is 'enough', yk?

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There's no way mine could have handled 6hrs+ A time at 19 months.
I don't think he can really - he just does somehow  :-\ Very hard to see tired signs  :(
Although she wouldn't have been falling apart. She's very angel/textbook and gets on with life with whatever sleep she gets. I just meant it would  show up in OT naps and nights.





Offline *Becky*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 12:33:26 pm »
hugs bernie - M's EWings were awful until we got a gro-clock. Now we manage to get to 6.45am every day and sometimes she even sleeps past it until about 7.15am. Until we used it at 26 months she was literally up at 5.30/5.45am every. single. day.




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Offline anna*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 12:39:29 pm »
Oh yes. Stan was like that too. I had countless, desperate threads on here about his chronic EWs - the low point being his 2nd birthday when he woke up at 4.20 and never resettled. Then we got the Groclock. I know it is a while off but something to think about for the future. Stan at 26 months was definitely getting a lot more sleep in 24 hrs than he had been at 18 months  ::) ::)





Offline mumofalice

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 12:39:53 pm »
Hugs berni. No advice really, but we are in a similar boat and I just wanted to say that not everyone seems to be able to make it work  ;).
Thanks for the hugs  :-* And for letting me know it's not just me that isn't able to 'make it work'  ;) :-*

Seems like E and N are similar - ie most likely OT but coping somehow. Also sounds like their older siblings B and A are similar too - touchy and HSN so unable to cope. Think I'll just have to ride it out with you - like you say there doesn't seem much else I can do  :-\ I am trying to do early naps and EBT if possible - not that it seems to make any difference LOL!

I mean it may be true that more sleep would be 'better', but if he's happy and thriving then whatever he's getting is 'enough', yk?
More sleep would definitely be 'better' (if not for him, for me  ;)) - and maybe he is getting 'enough' as he is generally happy BUT I have noticed that we're having a lot more tearful episodes and mini-meltdowns this last week - that may just be a glimpse of things to come (ie Terrible Twos) but I do wonder if it's tiredness  :-\ So hard to understand these little folk sometimes, eh?!

hugs bernie - M's EWings were awful until we got a gro-clock. Now we manage to get to 6.45am every day and sometimes she even sleeps past it until about 7.15am. Until we used it at 26 months she was literally up at 5.30/5.45am every. single. day.
Thanks for the hugs Becky  :-* And for sharing. I've definitely been thinking about the gro-clock as I've heard lots of success stories - however I think he's probably a bit young just now? But I do admit that I've had it on a mental list for his 2nd birthday for a while LOL! It's funny that it was never on a wish list for A at all. She did go through a period of EWs when she was months old - crept back from 7.20am gradually til we got to 4.45am  :o But she would be in bed for the night by 5.30pm at the latest so was still getting a decent amount of sleep, yk? She was in the process of 3-2 naps and I just had to push her 5 mins every day til we got back to 'normal' - unfortunately there isn't a 'normal' with DS! It's a good job he's such a cutie or I'd be asking for refund  ;)

Anna - think you've answered my question really . . . that the gro-clock is something to think about for the future. It's funny I thought I remembered reading your threads about Stan's EWs all those yrs ago but wasn't sure if it was you or someone else. Strange to think that Stan was getting more sleep at 26 months than at 18 months - maybe that's a ray of hope . . .

Things definitely not improving as yet  :P He woke yesterday at 6am, got him down for nap as early as poss after work btw 12.15/30pm. He creid out at 1.00pm and woke about 2pm. BT was a tad early - lights were out after stories by 6.45pm and he was still chatting at 7.25pm  ::) He woke this morning at 5.40am  :P

I am so worried about the clocks going back this weekend - EWs will be super EWs then  :o Wish me luck!

Offline *Becky*

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 12:43:21 pm »
I am so worried about the clocks going back this weekend - EWs will be super EWs then   Wish me luck!
uggh, yeah. Not fun. Good luck!




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Offline C&B&E

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 20:04:51 pm »
I am so worried about the clocks going back this weekend - EWs will be super EWs then   Wish me luck!
uggh, yeah. Not fun. Good luck!

oh man....I'd forgotten about that  :P ::)
Claire x



Offline Joy-filled

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Re: Short nights and short naps
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2013, 01:34:49 am »
Just thought I'd pop on to say I'm following along with interest.  Despite constant assistance here from wonderful mods and other mums my DS seems BW-proof too.  I've been here since he was 6 months old and here we are at 14 months and still getting short naps, interrupted nights and EWs.  We've never figured out A times that lead to good naps and we RARELY get STTNs.  While I think he's OT and that is the reason for short naps and interrupted nights, I think in a sense he also somehow gets "enough" since he's generally quite a happy boy.  I just wish we could both get solid sleep one of these days but I'm realizing it still might not happen for many months yet.  Hugs to you and wishing I could send some sleepy vibes your way but we're a tad short on them around here too  ;).  We shall survive, though :)
**Char**


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