Short nights and short naps

[mumofalice]

Thanks for popping by Char K - it does sound like we're in a similar place with our BW-proof boys 

The time change certainly didn't help things . . . but then I didn't expect it too  Naps on Sunday and Monday were ridiculously short (and late in the day  ). On Sunday we went to Eureka (it's a childrens' museum) and DS was beside himself with joy - it's probably the one place in the world you're allowed to run around and touch every button and it's all at LOs level  He was like a little whirlwind. He crashed in the car as soon as we left but it was probably around 2pm by then. Of course as soon as the car stopped he was wide awake - after only 45 mins. Got him to bed early-ish but he just did his usual pre BT chat for 30 mins  Woke before 6am yesterday and he was with my Mum all day as I took DD out for a girls' day. I told Mum he'd probably need to go down about 11.30am - when I got back he hadn't gone to sleep til 12.45 (he sleeps on the sofa and when she laid him down he kept getting up  ) and only slept an hour cos my older brother and niece had called in and disturbed him. Mum said he was inconsolable (OT much?  ) when he woke - she's never seen him upset and he was sobbing, bless him  Did EBT last night and he woke at 5.50am this morning again - so we're back to pre 6am WU  I was working today so he ended up going down for a nap late after I picked him up from Mum's - he fell asleep in the car and I transferred him to the cot (must've been tired to sleep through the transfer!) and he cried out around 2hrs but actually settled and woke after a total of 3hrs  I wonder if that means he'll wake even earlier tomorrow . . . FX the answer to that is no!

[mumofalice]

Okay so this sleep thing is really starting to get me down - it seems to be getting worse, if that's possible!

Our lowest spot so far was in half term when we went to the coast overnight - set off at nap time and both LOs fell asleep in the car (yes, my 6YO DD too!) DH coughed about 45 mins into the journey - it woke DS up and then he saw a horse out of his window so of course he was awake for the rest of the journey - DD slept all the way! There's a long story that follows but to cut it short the LOs didn't end up in bed until 10.15pm that night (there was a good reason - I don't think DD has ever been up past 8pm at the latest!). Believe it or not DS woke at 5.35am the next day - and woke everyone else up too  It was a one off overnight hotel stay so I just drew a line under it and moved on . . .

But here's what the last couple of days have been like:
Yesterday: awake at 6am
S: 12.50pm-2.10pm - Long A time due to me working, followed by short nap
BT: Tried EBT of 6pm - took 30 mins to settle, had to go in after 15 mins to lay him back down, stopped chatting at 6.30pm. Woke around 7.45pm crying - had to go in and lie him down again, gave muslin and he settled. Cried out a couple of times in the night but SS.

Today: awake at 5.35am
S: 12.40pm-1.40pm - again long A time due to work. He was crying 'Mum-mum, out' - I've been back in 3 times, laid him down and said it's nap time . . . strange thing is that I sat down to write this cos I'm desperate (1hr nap after 7hrs A time and 11 hr night just does not seem enough to me  ) and I think for the first time he may have dropped back off . . .

I know I shouldn't compare as DD was/is HSN and DS is probably LSN (though part of me thinks he is just OT half the time) but it's hard not to - and it just doesn't seem right that 9/10 a 6YO has more sleep in a 24hr period than a 20 month old.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE BW and I wouldn't be the parent I am if I hadn't found it - and I would never have understood my Touchy with a hint of Textbook DD - it just seems that DS is BW-proof and I feel a bit ripped off that I've tried to BW him from birth and it doesn't seem to have worked 

Any thoughts, tips, BTDT experience most welcome 

[*Becky*]

oh hun, it's hard isn't it. DD is a nightmare on car journeys, she has never ever slept more than 50 mins even when a baby and now we usually get 10-20 mins which makes for a tired girl on a day out!
He really sounds OT to me...sorry, not what you wanted to hear I know.
Is he teething??

If it were me I would just set a nap and BT and within 15 mins stick to it. If he is up at 6am then could you do a 12pm nap and a 6.30pm bt?

[Joy-filled]

Hugs in return to you too.  As you said when you posted on my thread, our DS' really are quite similar.  My DS would've done the same thing in the car - easily woke from a simple thing like a cough and that would be the end of it.  My DH and I have to cover his car seat with this black-out type shade if there's going to be any hope of him sleeping and we sit like statues and whisper quietly to each other with the fan blowing as loud as it will to try to create white noise.  Yet, a motorcycle past us on the highway once and woke A up anyway  .

I agree with Becky, for your own sanity I'd do set nap and BT.  It takes most of the guessing out of things and helps create some semblance of routine.  What do you think?

[mumofalice]

He really sounds OT to me...sorry, not what you wanted to hear I know.
Is he teething??

Actually I did want to hear that  as that's my gut feeling . . . however it's gone on so long that I'm beginning to wonder.

As for teething - yes he is . . . he is the slowest teether EVER. Gets one at a time and as one comes through the next one starts - so it's like a permanent thing  Am not sure how much 'pain' he's in as he's not screaming with them, iykwim? I'm embarrassed to say that I do medicate every night tho (I think I only gave meds to DD a handful of times) - but I was told by a friend who is a dental hygienist never to underestimate the pain they are in - it's like us having toothache, which I know from experience is very painful.

If it were me I would just set a nap and BT and within 15 mins stick to it. If he is up at 6am then could you do a 12pm nap and a 6.30pm bt?

I agree with Becky, for your own sanity I'd do set nap and BT.  It takes most of the guessing out of things and helps create some semblance of routine.  What do you think?

I am trying to do set nap and BT and stick to it as close as possible - though I know it doesn't look like that  I aim for 12.15pm nap and 7pm BT these timings are due to work and after school stuff with DD that he has to come to with us. I can probably get him in bed a tad earlier but it doesn't seem like he tacks (tho maybe he just needs more early nights) and we could end up with an even earlier WU! I have always been a fan of EBT (I know it scares the pants off some people!  ) as it has always worked for DD and I still use it now when she's OT (she's much easier to read) but I'm not sure it's going to work with DS as he seems bullet proof 

He had a coughing fit just before 6am this morning (DD woke me as she'd had a bad dream so I was already up) and obviously he didn't go back to sleep  He's currently chuntering away in his cot - I will aim for 12pm nap and see how he goes.

Thanks for the hugs and support ladies 

Char - will send you some hugs too cos I know you're also struggling  Good job our boys are so darn cute (love that smile in your avatar) or they wouldn't get away with it 

[*Becky*]

DD does not tack either...I think it is worth trying an EBT on the days when you can but if it does not work then don't pursue it.

Teeth can be a nightmare for some kids. DS never really slept 'that' well until his teeth were through so def could be a factor. xx

[mumofalice]

Thanks for your words of wisdom Becky - I will try EBT when I can.

Teeth can be a nightmare for some kids. DS never really slept 'that' well until his teeth were through so def could be a factor. xx

I have 'blamed' DS's rubbish sleep on so many things - teeth is definitely one of them  - so I'm still holding on to the hope that when he has his full set his sleep will improve . . . or I will have to find something else to blame 

[anna*]

I felt the same about Stan being 'BW-proof' felt really resentful and cheated. In the end though I don't know what I could have done differently. I wasn't going to leave him to CIO because it's not in me. Some kids are just not good sleepers, and nothing we can do will change them. I've already mentioned on this thread how the Groclock was totally life-changing for us… I know it's not for everyone, but I hope it will be for you.

[mumofalice]

How funny Anna - I would never have thought you felt like that about Stan being BW-proof. Thing is, like you, I couldn't and wouldn't do anything differently - I could not let him CIO, it's not in me either . . . and even if it were I'm not sure I could. I don't know what it is about DS's cry but it really gets to me - almost makes me feel physically sick  DD's cry never got to me in the same way.

The only thing I wish I'd done differently (or been able to do differently) is teach DS how to resettle himself - I just didn't have the time or energy to spend on extending naps, etc. I think I probably spent more time doing this with DD - but then I didn't have an older LO then either.

I will definitely be getting a Groclock (will try anything to LOL  ) - but I *think* DS is still a bit young to understand it  I am debating whether to put in on DS's Christmas list or whether to wait til his birthday . . .

The good news is that DS took a mammoth 3 hr nap today  Not sure exactly why - WU was 6am (despite another late night  ) and he was down for nap by 12.15pm and despite a bit of resistance he was asleep fairly quickly - cried out around 2 hrs (thought he was waking up and I would've been happy with a 2hr nap cos that's a good nap for him) but resettled and woke an hour later 

The bad news is that we seem to be getting a bit of nap and BT resistance  DS starts shouting 'no' when stories are finished and sits up when I lay him in his cot - I repeat our sleepy phrase and walk out. Sometimes he will start crying - so, I go back in, lay him down, give him his muslin and repeat the phrase. I usually only need to go back once or twice but not sure what it's all about - unless of course it's just the fact DS doesn't like to sleep cos he might miss something 

[mumofalice]

Can someone please tell me why DS always has a short nap on Tuesday - the one and only day that I don't have to pick up DD from school as she goes to the CM? There are times I have to wake him from a nap to do the school run and I hate doing it - but today, same as every other Tues he's woken after 1hr 20 mins  DD isn't well - had to pick her up from school on my way home from work/picking up DS from my parents - but she went to sleep at the same time and is still sleeping. It still meant that I didn't have to go anywhere though and was really hoping to crack on and do some jobs . . .

Some kids are just not good sleepers, and nothing we can do will change them.

Maybe I should just accept it and move on 

[*Becky*]

The bad news is that we seem to be getting a bit of nap and BT resistance   DS starts shouting 'no' when stories are finished and sits up when I lay him in his cot - I repeat our sleepy phrase and walk out. Sometimes he will start crying - so, I go back in, lay him down, give him his muslin and repeat the phrase. I usually only need to go back once or twice but not sure what it's all about - unless of course it's just the fact DS doesn't like to sleep cos he might miss something 

is he spirited by any chance?
Is he doing that for both naps and BT? If so I would lean towards it being developmental or some type of SA yk? If just for one then probably more routine related...

Sorry about the nap today, honestly so many things sound like what happens here! xx

[mumofalice]

is he spirited by any chance?

I honestly don't know  When we did the 'know your baby quiz' he came out as a complete mix of all types - and that was with both DH and I doing the quiz and our answers weren't exactly the same! However, I do suspect he is now more spirited than he was - really should do the 'know your toddler quiz' I guess - might help me understand my confusing little man a bit more!

Is he doing that for both naps and BT? If so I would lean towards it being developmental or some type of SA yk? If just for one then probably more routine related...

Yes it is for both naps and BT - but it's not every time iykwim. It's just like he doesn't seem to wind down, yk? He asks for more and more stories when you read to him - I LOVE stories and reading but it's like there's no limit for him.

Sorry about the nap today, honestly so many things sound like what happens here! xx

Thanks hun  In some ways it's good to know that it's not just happening at our house . . . I just feel like I've failed him a bit yk? Typically today I had to wake him to do the school run - he did wake after 1h 20m (ish) and called out to me a couple of times but then went quiet - so he obviously SS - just can't ever seem to do that on the one day he could sleep as long as he wanted 

[mumofalice]

*throws towel in* (insert sound here) 

I'm done - another 1h 20m nap today after a >11hr night. Just over 12hrs sleep in 24hrs doesn't seem enough for a 20 month old to me - but hey what do I know?

I guess I just accept that DS is a rubbish sleeper and move on.

It's my issue - I don't feel like I am getting any Y time and it's getting me down. After work I picked DS up, put him down for a nap, unpacked my car, made a sandwich which I pretty much ate standing up whilst I prepped dinner (to put in the oven so it's ready when we get back from DD's swimming lesson) and before I'd even finished that DS was awake - I left him chatting in the hope he'd resettle but it didn't happen (who was I kidding thinking he would?) and I've still got to wash the breakfast pots, unload and reload the dishwasher before we collect DD from school and get in the car to go swimming.

[*Becky*]

many many hugs. We have 5am starts again so that's fun too

When M was that age she was also doing short naps and we ended up putting her to bed at 6.15pm for quite a while. Now although she is not a tacker we did get through to about 5.45/6am and she was more rested etc than if she had done a 7pm BT so that might be worth a shot. If you think he will be up even earlier though then tbh as hard as it is stick with the set times.....he might come good you never know?
I have not scrolled back but did you say you thought he was teething? Have you tried the odd meds before a nap? I have hardly done this with mine BUT there have been 3-4 times with M when I have tried it if I suspected teeth. I always found 1.10 naps here were teeth so 1.20 could be I guess?
Is he happy when he wakes from a nap? Generally is his mood good?

[mumofalice]

Hey ladies

We're still stuck with the EWs but am still plodding along hoping that at some point my DS will realise that sleep is a good thing and should be loved and cherished - just as much his big sister does! 

I have to share though that DS took a mammoth nap yesterday (I think about 2h 45m  ) and even better slept til about 6.30am this morning too  I was still awake at 5.30am and as the time passed without a murmur from his room I began to worry that there was something wrong - I was struggling to decide whether to go in and check or not - I knew if I did go in I'd wake him up but was feeling guilty if I didn't go in Sometimes you just can't win 

I had decided to order the gro-clock as part of DS's Christmas gift (what a lovely gift for him  ) in the hope it might just improve things - however, after reading a couple of reviews I was a bit worried about the 'brightness' of the clock and whether it would disturb him anyway  His room is (and always has been) blacked out - it's very dark in there and that's what he's been used to. Not sure if you had/have a gro-clock Becky? If so, what do you think? Anna, if you're still reading along, I know you had one and it helped - did you find the 'light' made a difference in the room?

We have 5am starts again so that's fun too

Hope your early starts have improved since I was last on