Nap problems after transition to bed 28 months

[Kalan]

We decided to change NND to Sunday. He did well all day, we had some quiet activity time in place of a nap. He didn't want to go to bed and laid by the door but fell asleep within 10min. He did have two OT waking shortly after BT. Slept for 12 hrs total and his mood was normal this morning.

Today he didn't want to nap but again fell asleep on the floor by the door within 20min. Nap was capped at 1.5hrs. BT is another story, he absolutely refuses to go to bed... It's almost 9pm and he's laying by the door wide awake

[creations]

Oh dear   What time did he finally fall asleep?

[Kalan]

Its hard to say somewhere between 9 and 9:20pm because he fell asleep at the door (the only place in his room that the baby monitor doesn't cover!). He didn't have any OT NW and he woke this morning at 7:30am… Unfortunately he wouldn't nap today so its an EBT again. Could he just be ready to drop his nap?

[creations]

It is possible yes.
Do you think you might find it easier to aim for no nap and watch out for OT build up?  You can re-offer a nap whenever you feel it's needed.  Mine stopped napping literally overnight at 32 months.  Others drop the nap earlier, some are still napping much later.  All so different.
What do you think, fancy planning for no nap and just watching how he does on it? Or would you feel more comfortable continuing the nap but capping further? You could cap right back if you felt happy with trying it?

[Kalan]

I think I would prefer to aim for no nap and watch for OT. It's too stressful trying to get him to nap and then having to get him down again for BT. I was so hoping he would have kept the nap since baby #2 is on its way!

If we are doing NND's what would be a reasonable BT to prevent OT? He wakes at 6:30am usually.

[creations]

Might take a little bit of trial an error on BT.  Many people aim for a 10 hr day allowing a 14 hr night, the night can go as long as this as the NNDs build up and he becomes more and more tired across the week/s.  That said, mine was doing roughly 12hrs total sleep in 24hrs and when the nap went he did 12hr nights.  Looking back over the thread it seems he was doing 13hrs total sleep in 24 hrs but that this has dropped to 11.5hrs would you agree?  I think I'd aim for 12hr day and 12hr night but record his sleep times and mood so you can see how he's doing on it.  He might need a longer night.  What do you think?

It's also great news that he appears to tack on in the morning hours and WU later if he needs more sleep so you can judge BT from there.  He might also be finding it hard to adapt to the changes that are going on, BBB, and you expecting number 2, I doubt you have the energy but perhaps a few more cuddles are needed to reassure him.  Maybe nap can be replaced with quiet time cuddling on the sofa with you?  Don't know how you feel about TV but it kind of saves us when DS needs to zone out and chill, it really seems to give him a break.
Some people also find that they can drop to say 1 nap per week or 1 every two weeks, don't feel that you can never ever go back to a nap if he looks like he really needs it yk.  In the first couple of weeks after mine stopped napping I invited him once to go sleep in my bed with me for a nap after lunch, I was amazed he said yes, this had never happened before, we both slept 2hrs!  Hasn't happening since but it did help after a couple of weeks of no nap.

How's that sound?

[Kalan]

Looking back over the thread it seems he was doing 13hrs total sleep in 24 hrs but that this has dropped to 11.5hrs would you agree? 

That seems to be about right.

I think I'd aim for 12hr day and 12hr night but record his sleep times and mood so you can see how he's doing on it.  He might need a longer night.  What do you think?

We can do that. Maybe over a few days he may sleep longer at night once he starts to get used to the no nap.

Yesterday he only did a 11hr day and had one NW 45 min after BT. He woke this morning after 11.5hrs but after about 30min he went back to sleep. I usually leave him in his room until 7 or 7:30am and he sits quietly. It's 7:20am now and he's still asleep. Is there a point where I should wake him?

He might also be finding it hard to adapt to the changes that are going on, BBB, and you expecting number 2, I doubt you have the energy but perhaps a few more cuddles are needed to reassure him.  Maybe nap can be replaced with quiet time cuddling on the sofa with you?  Don't know how you feel about TV but it kind of saves us when DS needs to zone out and chill, it really seems to give him a break.

He seems to love his BBB, he sees his crib in the other room and could care less! He doesn't really understand yet that theres another baby coming. However, we still do lots of cuddles .  We sat and read books yesterday for quiet time and watched a little tv.

Some people also find that they can drop to say 1 nap per week or 1 every two weeks, don't feel that you can never ever go back to a nap if he looks like he really needs it yk.

Sounds good. I will keep an eye on him and see if he needs it.

[creations]

Maybe over a few days he may sleep longer at night once he starts to get used to the no nap.

Sometimes it can take a good while for the night to lengthen.  Much longer than a few days, even weeks.  But I'm sure you'll see that happening and adjust his BT or morning WU to suit him.

Is there a point where I should wake him?

Normally I would say let him sleep if he needs it, it's great he had a good night and tacked on in the morning - how i wish mine would do that!
I would wake him if you needed to be somewhere (then perhaps make BT a little earlier knowing he had wanted a longer night) or if it became the case where morning WU was regularly late and BT was becoming tricky and late too, and those times are what you as a family consider reasonable, some families are happy with a later WU and later BT, some prefer those two times to be earlier.  it's only a problem when it's a problem iyswim.  So, if it's a one-off late wu in the morning I'd let him be and be grateful that he's able to catch up on a bit more sleep when he needs it. If it's long term and becoming too late then I'd wake him but adjust BT to suit, earlier if he needs a longer night.  The thing to be wary of is a set BT and also setting his WU time, these are fine so long as he gets a long enough night for his needs.

He doesn't really understand yet that theres another baby coming.

I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing this myself but I've heard several mums saying their LOs seem to know something has changed even if they are too young to understand or have not been told about another baby coming. Perhaps your hormonal changes are detectable even if routines and all else appear the same.  Maybe there are some aspects of the bond between mummy and LO that we aren't fully aware of.

Good luck! I hope the coming days prove to be successful NNDs and he continues to have reasonable nights too

[Kalan]

Normally I would say let him sleep if he needs it, it's great he had a good night and tacked on in the morning - how i wish mine would do that!

He's never really tacked on before so I am always shocked when he does!

So, if it's a one-off late wu in the morning I'd let him be and be grateful that he's able to catch up on a bit more sleep when he needs it.

Would you then shorten the day? So today he woke at 7:50am should his BT been 7:50pm or earlier?

Perhaps your hormonal changes are detectable even if routines and all else appear the same. 

That could be. He seems to be his normal self. He has always been really attached to me and continues to be. Right now I am enjoying our cuddles alone before baby comes

Good luck! I hope the coming days prove to be successful NNDs and he continues to have reasonable nights too

Thank You! He did amazing today, was cheerful all day. He's been asleep now for 2hrs and hasn't had an wakings so far!

[creations]

Quote from: creations on Yesterday at 21:33:55

    So, if it's a one-off late wu in the morning I'd let him be and be grateful that he's able to catch up on a bit more sleep when he needs it.

Would you then shorten the day? So today he woke at 7:50am should his BT been 7:50pm or earlier?

No I wouldn't.  I'd do regular BT (if EBT has become regular BT due to dropping the nap then do that).  So I would put him to bed as though he had not had that later WU.  So if he usually does 7wu - 7bt and then one day does 7.50wu I'd still do 7bt. Hope that makes sense. So that the extra sleep he had in the morning remains 'extra' as a catch up for him when he needs it.
Then just watch to see how often he does the late WU and what his mood at BT is like. If he regularly does it then his set BT might need to be moved a touch earlier to stop him waking too late in the morning. But one-offs just see as catch up. Regular BT.
Hope that makes sense.

[Kalan]

No I wouldn't.  I'd do regular BT (if EBT has become regular BT due to dropping the nap then do that). 

Oh good, thats what I thought.

Thanks!

[creations]

Sounds like you have a plan.  Hope it goes smoothly but do shout if you have more questions. x

[Kalan]

Things were going well until yesterday. He only slept for 11hrs 40min the night prior and was yawning and super cranky all morning. I decided to see if he'd nap and he fell asleep at 1:30pm slept for 1.5hrs then I woke him and of course absolutely refused to go to bed. He fell asleep at 8:10pm and still woke this morning at 6:10am. Having no nap today seems like a really long day since he only did 10hrs last night…however, I don't think he will nap.

[creations]

Maybe he needs a super short micro nap rather than a nap?  When mine dropped his nap he nodded off in teh car a couple of times per week, of course I thought best thing was to let him sleep a while but it didn't work out, he would be super cranky and angry when he woke and I discovered that if I only let him sleep the 5 mins it took to drive home and then just woke him he was only dopey and a grumbly for a few minutes.  I think some find it hard to lengthen the night when BT and naps/NNDs are irregular too so perhaps he would do better with no nap (or just a micro nap) and live with the shortish nights for a while until he works out to extend the night.  It just looks like naps are not working for your LO. What do you think?

[Kalan]

Normally he won't fall asleep in the car. To give him just a short nap I'd have to first get him to take a nap and then wake him. He's always unpleasant when I wake him but haven't tried it after just a few minutes.

Last night he did wake several times in the night crying so I'm thinking the OT is catching up. He seemed fine this morning but around 11:30am he started rubbing his eyes and yawning. I thought I would give it a try and see if he may take a nap and he happily went into his room and quietly laid or played and then fell asleep at 12:10pm and slept for 2hrs. He woke happy and cheerful and around 6:30pm starting yawning again but it took until 7:15pm to get him ready for bed…by then I think I missed his window and he was already in that overtired hyper stage and didn't want to go to bed… after much arguing at the door he fell asleep at 7:50pm.

I'm thinking he may still need a nap but we are missing his ideal time to go to sleep because he plays in his room too long and then gets OT and super hyper?