Author Topic: habitual waking?  (Read 3730 times)

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Offline zissi

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habitual waking?
« on: November 08, 2013, 14:19:58 pm »
hi there,
my 5.5 months old daughter keeps waking up at night usually once, sometimes 2-3 times. we have introduced a DF at 10.30pm 5 days ago and it does not seem to have any effect on her night waking. she wakes anyway around 2am. we usually try to settle her then sometimes over an hour and it always ends up in me nursing her so that she can go back to sleep. she had slow weight gain and gets more feeds now including 120ml DF but as I said she keeps waking at the same time as before (between 2 and 3am) at around 4.5 months she went 8-9 hrs without feeding and thats why I am surprised that she cannot do it now. I dont have a problem feeding her once or twice at night since I think its normal for a baby of this age but I am just confused since she went so many hours before without any feeds. could it be that the DF takes a while to work? or that sometimes it does more harm than good (as in disturbing her long stretch of sleep). over the last weeks we were working hard on her naps and they are much better now, she has usually one long nap, sometimes 2 naps of 1.5 or 2 hrs. she still wakes after 30- 45 mins into the nap but we are able to extend the nap quite easily. she still catnaps for 30 mins around 2 hrs before bedtime.
her routine looks currently like that:

wu around 7am (sometimes earlier but we leave her in the cot or try to shush/pat back to sleep)
7am BF
8.45 top up BF
9.10 - 10.45 nap
11am 130ml bottle of formila
12.45 BF
1pm-2.30 nap (sometimes short nap of 45 mins)
3.30pm 150ml bottle of formula
16.45 cn till 17.15
7pm BT
10.45 DF

the last A time before bedtime is usually shorter than the others as she becomes quite fussy the later the day. she goes down for naps and BT really well now.

any advice would be appreciated!
thanks so much! fran


Franziska

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 14:40:16 pm »
Hi there!  Personally the df didn't work for me - you could try for a week or two and if you don't see any improvement then you might want to drop it.  I like going to bed at 9:30 or earlier so the 2am feed was easier for me.  When we tried the df for a few days she started waking for it (when we decided it wasn't working) but she went back to normal after about a week.  So is she doing a 2am and 5am feed?  Bf?  Mine was also still doing that at that age.  If you've tried for 5 days to resettle her than there's a good chance she just needs food at that time.  You could make sure by giving a bottle to see if she is taking a good amount, especially if she is a tiny little thing like my LO.  We had two NF until about 7mos then we were able to sleep train into one NF and now she has dropped it for the most part (almost 10 mos old). 

Anyway, that is just my experience.  You know your LO so what does your gut tell you?

Also, you might want to try an a time push soon to see if that helps at all with naps (short naps are kinda the norm at this age so good for you that you can extend them!).   The wakings could be due to being undertired - a times are a tad low for your Los age.

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Hope this helps!




**Tracy**

Offline goldmom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 15:14:30 pm »
At around 5/5.5 months DS was waking for a NF once in the MOTN, usually around 1:30 or so. We introduced a DF around then to change the NF to earlier before I go to sleep instead of in MOTN. The first week he still woke at his usual time, and if I resettled he would wake up 2-3 hours later also. Or he would wake up later one night from his usual time, but then slowly that wake up time kept creeping back to his normal 1:30 NW. I don't remember if I ended up feeding at some of those waking or not (likely just at the later ones, but not at the 1:30 ones), but after a few more days he did start sleeping through. I would give it 2 weeks before deciding that the DF isn't working. It takes about that long to change a night habit. I would also try to resettle in MOTN, but if you think you're going to give in, I wouldn't drag it on for too long. If you think you don't have to feed back to sleep, then I would try to persevere.

DD was still taking 2 NF at this age (till 7.5 months when we weaned one of them).

Sometimes a growth spurt causes a previously STTN baby to start waking more often, so I would feed if you think she is hungry.

Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 15:46:22 pm »
hi girls,

thanks for the reply. will try the DF for at least 2 weeks. last night when I eventually fed her around 3am she drank nicely for 20 mins, so I guess she was hungry. since she is quite small and light for her age (hasnt doubled her weight yet) I am happy to get as many calories into her  as I can. personally I dont have a problem with feeding her MOTN, only dont want to create habit especially when she doesnt need it.
only this week I see a positive effect in her naps and extended A time. she can now go 2.20mins and I am hesitant to push it out already.

thanks again, fran
Franziska

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 15:50:23 pm »
Same here as Violets mom, DF never worked for us so we did aroudn a 1:30 and 4:30 feeding till 7 months, then dropped the 4am feeding at 10. :) We did DF for about 2 weeks and he started waking up for it so we just stopped.
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Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 21:24:36 pm »
hi again,

just an update and more questions. we quit the DF as DD started to wake up for it and she woke for the 2 NF´s anyway. she currently wakes around 12am for a feed and then again around 4ish. these times are not very consistent, ti can be also 2am and then 5am or so. why is that so inconsistent? also, sometimes she seems hungry and drinks nicely but more often than not she actually doesnt drink much. that would indicate a habit waking, right? another problem that has emerged is that since a few nights its very hard to get her back to sleep after the 2nd NF. she lies then in her cot chatting to herself and eventually gets fussy. it takes then around an hour to get her back to sleep with shush/pat. could it have to do with her naps? they are pretty good now, the morning nap is usually a decent one and then 2nd one I can often extend. she still has most evenings a CN. without it her A time would be way too long. Could the CN be the cause of her night wakings? could it be time for 3-2 transition.
any advice would be appreciated!
thanks, fran
Franziska

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 23:22:47 pm »
Yeah I would agree with you that it might be time to transition - middle of the night parties usually mean they are undertired.  You could try an earlier bedtime if her a time becomes too long.


**Tracy**

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 01:10:41 am »
I don't think it's habitual wakings as it's not always at the same time, but Tracy is right normally middle of the night cot parties are due to being under tired. But at 5.5months 2 middle of the night feedings is not unusual at all especially with out a DF. Mine never took to DF so normally he'd wake around 12 and then 4:30. Then around 7.5months I started weaning the 12 and he took to it and then 10M we dropped the 4am feed. HTH
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Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 09:11:29 am »
thanks for the advice ladies. with earlier BT, Im afraid that she will get up much earlier then too. It took us a while to get her till 7am, so if she went to bed around 6, would this not mean getting up at 6am? also, she moves a lot in her cot while sleeping and keeps banging her legs or head against the cot, so she wakes herself up by doing this. she sleeps on her tummy and is quite mobile. anything I can do about this?
Franziska

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 13:52:07 pm »
Yeah she might start getting up at 6...  So it's up to you if you want to experiment.  She might also pull a slightly longer nighttime sleep to make up for the catnap until her afternoon nap gets longer. 

I remember those days of head banging wake ups!  Not much you can do to help - hang in there she will figure it out eventually!  I know some people use crib bumpers but it's not really recommended because of suffocation hazard so I never used them.  I would go in and comfort her after a bump and the she would go back to sleep.  It only took her a few nights to figure it out...


**Tracy**

Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 15:31:10 pm »
hello again, here some update: we have been down to 2 naps a day now after dropping the CN but the night wakings are not really improving. she wakes up currently for 1 feed between 3 and 4am and then it takes forever to get her back down. she isnt crying, more chatting to herself and moving down the cot where she bangs with her legs against the cot. her naps are generally good. she has either 1 long nap in the morning of 2hrs+ and then one short nap of 45 mins. or she has 2 naps of 1.5 hrs. all her A times are now 3 hrs apart from the last one where its about 2 hrs 45 mins, just because she is soo tired in the end of the day. any idea why she is still having cot parties in the middle of the night? she also wakes around 40 mins after BT (which I know is due to OT) but she usually self settles or it takes very little to settle her. could the NW developmental? she is about to crawl, making funny movements anyway... please help!
Franziska

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 15:33:48 pm »
How old is your LO now?  I would probably agree it's developmental but we can look at a times and such.


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Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 15:48:23 pm »
she was 6 months last week.
just posting her routine:
wake up 7.30
BF + top up BF before sleep (because she drinks only about 5 mins in total on both breasts)
1st nap 10.30 - 12.45
BF and a bit of solids (BLW, so doesnt actually eat a lot)
2nd nap 15.45-16.20
BF
BT 7pm bottle before that (she is usually too tired to take the whole lot (180ml) and screams, therefore we moved last feed to 6pm when she is less tired
wakes up after 40 mins but settles quickly
NW 3.40 BF and then it takes 1.5 hrs for her to settle again.
we usually leave her to see if she settles herself but she starts moving, banging and if no one comes eventually after 20 mins or so starts crying. we settle her then and she starts same thing all over. initially happy alone in cot and then gets bored and starts crying...
Franziska

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 15:50:15 pm »
Im just thinking, since she sleeps a good solid 9 hrs in one go could it be that she is done for a while before becoming tired again? but surely she needs 12 hrs of sleep not only 9. she is rubbing eyes etc during her cot parties...
Franziska

Offline goldmom

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 18:03:16 pm »
You could try cutting back the 2+ hours nap. At this age you still want to try for 2 long naps of aprox 1.5 hours each (unless your LO is very low sleep needs). Total nap time will be the same, but the one solid long nap might be taking over some of the night sleep.

Also with good naps, you want to try to keep the day 12-13 hours, it looks like you're going with 11.5 hours. It's uncommon for LO's to sleep 12 hours overnight at this age (but could happen), but anything less than 10.5 hours is considered an EW. Long NW would be more of a UT and too little A time issue.

Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 20:12:41 pm »
ok I will wake her after 2 hrs of napping. its just that when I do that she can be cranky. also, the 2nd nap is usually short but in most cases I can extend it. will try doing this. The solution to going for a longer day is starting the day earlier which i dont really want to do. I think her biological clock is having a BT at 7pm, by then she is soo tired even if she wakes up out of a good nap at lets say 5pm. In comparison to some other sleep issues here on the forum I suppose my LO is not bad at all... thanks for the help!
Franziska

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2013, 01:24:14 am »
Hows it going?


**Tracy**

Offline zissi

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 19:12:52 pm »
not so good. LO was/is sick with cold for the first time and now it seems that we have to do Pu/pd again. she used to self settle with thumb but now since she cant breathe through her nose she finds it much more difficult to settle. We are pretty much down to 2 naps but they are starting to get shorter again, maybe we have to increase A time again? she is now 6.5 months and has an A time of 3 hrs. with her being sick sometimes its hard to get to 3 hrs, I suppose I will wait till she is well again. Thanks for all your help ladies!
Franziska

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: habitual waking?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 14:22:02 pm »
Yeah I wouldn't do any tweaking while she is ill.
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**