is it time to ditch the bottle for 3.5yo ds??

[Aishi]

We're going on holiday for a week on 27th Nov and I thought when we get back would be a good time to ditch the bottle...

Ds has mspi and is on soya milk which he drinks out of a bottle I know most ppl would suggest going cold turkey but I haven't done so yet cos its the main source of calcium he gets...he won't touch cheese, yoghurt or custard normal or soya so I'm worried about calcium intake...I'm planning to trial cows milk again after holiday...

How would you go about it? What happens if he won't drink from a cup?

Tia xx

[Buntybear]

What happens if he won't drink from a cup?

Have you tried a cup yet? What does he drink water out of?

[Aishi]

Lol yes water and juice is fine out of any sort of cup ....

I've tried for milk a while ago and he took a sip after a LOT of coaxing.. He usually just refuses outright and says he doesn't like it in a cup....I've asked if he wants a new special cup, mummy's cup, his friends in nursery have cups but he's just not interested...

[Buntybear]

Hmm sounds like it is pure habit then.  I know how you feel about the calcium etc. Wonder if cold turkey is the way to go? Olly never had a bottle so can't help. What about if you went to choose a new cup and then ceremoniously chucked all bottles away for the bottle fairy?! Isn't that what happens with dummies? Olly didn't have those either so might be making it up 

[Aishi]

It does happen with dummies. But what if he won't drink his milk out of cup and I throw bottles away...what do I do bout calcium? He won't have any milk products

[Lolly]

What about calcium supplements? They are available for children so if the worst comes and he refuses then he will be getting calcium.

I think though that if you just keep offering his milk in the cup and he knows there is no alternative then he will eventually drink from a cup. At the moment he knows the bottle is still available so he doesn't *have* to take milk in a cup. You will have some days when he doesn't have any but keep offering, if he likes the milk as a drink he will want it again.

Does he have cereal with the milk on?

Laura

[Haribo2012]

My friend made a big deal of choosing a new straw cup then at Xmas said santas reindeer needed milk for their trip to Lapland and they nibbled the bottles and took some with them so they had to be thrown away! They left as note for Santa to tell him his reindeers could have them, and cut the teats on a couple if bottles...!x

[Aishi]

Lol haribo I could try that since Xmas is coming up;

Lolly- I was given calcium supplements (as med from dietician) do u think Id be on to use that after checking with her? He has dry cereal one step at a time eh?!

Guess cold turkey is way to go...I'm trialling cows milk too so should I get rid of bottle and give soya in sippy first or straight to cows milk and cup?

[Lolly]

Check about the supplement you have but there are children's supplements available OTC so ask at your pharmacy.

I would get him drinking the soy from a cup first and then look at the milk trial I think!

Laura

[barbaraz78]

Aishi, is your ds sensitive on "being a big boy"? This was the main incentive for F to give up the paci (he gave the paci to Santa last year).
The other thing that works with my ds (not a milk lover either, even if he eats diary) is explaing why he needs a certain food, so I tell him that milk serves to make his bones strongers and longer so he can play and run better and he can become taller. So, if he refuses milk you can insist a bit telling him why you would like he drinks a bit of that and why you are concerned if he doesn't take any calcium source.

[Buntybear]

Aishi, is your ds sensitive on "being a big boy"? This was the main incentive for F to give up the paci (he gave the paci to Santa last year).
The other thing that works with my ds (not a milk lover either, even if he eats diary) is explaing why he needs a certain food, so I tell him that milk serves to make his bones strongers and longer so he can play and run better and he can become taller. So, if he refuses milk you can insist a bit telling him why you would like he drinks a bit of that and why you are concerned if he doesn't take any calcium source.

Oh yes, Olly loves telling me he will be big and strong like Daddy lol

[Aishi]

Thanks ladies for your input. I will try those ideas out. I've been talking to him today about drinking milk in a cup like a big boy so he can be strong like daddy. He was listening but not too impressed lol. Guess I'll keep talking to him about it and once we're back from holiday just go for it :-/

Waiting to hear from the dietician re calcium supplements but will check at pharmacy too....

Thanks for the advice! xx

[barbaraz78]

I've been talking to him today about drinking milk in a cup like a big boy so he can be strong like daddy. He was listening but not too impressed lol. Guess I'll keep talking to him about it and once we're back from holiday just go for it :-/

For the dummy, I have spoken to F for months telling him about the fairy who will bring a gift for the big boys that give up the paci... and he always answered he didn't want any, he wanted to keep the paci. The the day before Christmas I was speaking to him about the fact that Santa was coming and he could give him the paci, and ... he suddenly didn't say no.... I was so surprised I went ahead (I was totally NOT ready to take away the paci) and he actually gave the paci to Santa that night. So, even if he is not convinced, he is listening for sure. Give it time to settle and fix in his mind.

[Aishi]

Thanks Barbara that's really good to know!

Fwiw I was talking to him about it at lunch time today and he agreed to try some milk in daddy's cup! Had about 2 oz's!! I couldn't believe it. We praised him a lot and have started a reward chart for him. Fxd this is the beginning!

[Buntybear]

Great start!

[creations]

There are lots of foods (non-dairy) that are calcium rich, you may not need a supplement at all.  2 figs has nearly double the amount of calcium as one glass of soy milk!
Here's a list, obviusly ignore the milk products and milk based desserts!
kurly kale, canned sardines, tahini paste, white bait/sprats all very very high in calcium.  When mine took almost no milk I looked into this list and discovered he would eat 2 whole fried sprats, head, tail, the lot, and LOVED them. Only problem now is they haven't been in the shops for over a year, but he drinks milk again now so it isn't such a worry.

[creations]

Oh sorry, forgot the link
http://www.iofbonehealth.org/calcium-rich-foods

[Aishi]

That's great! Thanks creations I hadn't realised how much good groups had calcium in! Any idea how many mg of calcium toddlers need? Are those portion sizes for adults or kids?

He didn't drink any milk from a cup today I'll just keep offering until I'm ready to take bottle away completely and go cold turkey. On the other hand he did have mozzarella cheese hidden in his pasta for tea. He was a bit dubious about it but he did eat it so that was positive! In meantime I can increase uptake of other foods containing calcium...

Thanks for all your input and advice!

[creations]

http://www.babycenter.com/0_calcium-in-your-childs-diet_10324689.bc#articlesection2

age 1-3 is 700mg
age 4-8 is 1000mg
but as with anything for kids you can work it out over a week rather than every day as some days they will take more and some less.
If the milk drops right off you might need to increase some fat somewhere else in the diet although I think at 3.5 this isn't nearly as important as it would be for an under 2yo who needs lots of fat (usually from milk)

The servings size just depends how much of each thing your LO will eat really, I mean, they have put 4 figs on the list for over 500mg of calcium and I know my DS would happily eat 4 but I prob don't want him to eat 4 figs every day.
How about just looking at your LOs regular diet and track over a week roughly how much calcium there is on an average day from pasta, bread, fruit, veg etc and see where you stand?  It might be that you just need to switch an apple to an orange, offer certain veg over others, or add some 'hidden' tahini in baking?
I tried out the tahini after seeing another BW mummy used it in pancakes or muesli or something and discovered DS can taste the smallest amount added to anything, and then refuses to eat the whole batch so it doesn't help here but then like I said he will eat sprats which I think many kids would turn their noses up at.

Oh and did you try a regular straw for drinking milk? Leave the milk in the bottle remove the teat and pop a straw in?  Later move to a different cup with the straw?

[Mama_Mia]

It is scary taking the bottle away, M got rid of the bottle just under a year old except for BT. I was so scared to even try taking it away thinking he would never settle and go to sleep. When he hit about 32 months I got him ready for bed as usual laid him down and when he asked for a bottle I simply said "I'm sorry hunny, I threw all the bottles away, do you want a cup of milk or water?"

[Mama_Mia]

It is scary taking the bottle away, M got rid of the bottle just under a year old except for BT. I was so scared to even try taking it away thinking he would never settle and go to sleep. When he hit about 32 months I got him ready for bed as usual laid him down and when he asked for a bottle I simply said "I'm sorry hunny, I threw all the bottles away, do you want a cup of milk or water?" He replied "water" so I gave him a cup of water, then when he was sleeping I hid all the bottles away where he would never see them just in case I got desperate at some point and needed one. .. We never looked back tho

[Lemonthyme]

My son (also 3.5) was using a sippy cup for milk (not other drinks) until 2 weeks ago.  Free flowing, thought about stopping, tried once when he was about 2 but he didn't want to give it up.  I knew he could, because he'd drink milk away from home in a normal cup.  I then read that even with free flowing sippy cups you're meant to stop them by 18 months.  Felt guilty (as Mummies do) and then decided to try again.  I gave him a choice of using the sippy cup with no lid or several other cups we had.  To my surprise he went for it straight away.  Initially he chose a small china cup but now has settled on the sippy cup (two handled) without a lid because he can control it better I guess.

So basically you might find it is way easier than you imagine but I'd probably switch straight to an open cup if you can.  Maybe use a straw to start with?

[Aishi]

I have tried giving him a choice.of cups even bought a.special one with him but he still wont drink it

 incidentally does anyone know how many oz of milk they need at 3+ if theyre having no other dairy?

[Lemonthyme]

To be honest I have no idea.  On a typical day though my son will have milk on his cereal and a cup of milk and milk will feature at some point elsewhere, e.g. yogurt and honey for pudding.  So he's probably having 2/3 - 1 pint of milk a day in total which is enough I think but my son is a big eater.

[Aishi]

Hmm i think im just going to have to bite the bullet and ditch the bottle... soon

[Aishi]

Helloo

Weve been bottle free since december but he still wont drink milk out of a cup or have it on cereal I have had success with the milk product trial and seems he isnt allergic anymore. Yay! Ive been trying to increase calcium through diet so getting breads, cereals with added calcium etc but not had much more success. He wont eat spinach, sardines, sprats etc. I have managed to get him to eat a cheese string per day but i still feel its not enough...?

So my question is can he have ice cream a few times per week or is that too much? (He isnt bothered about junk food usually- chocolate now and then). He likes fig biscuits...is that ok daily? and he loves having a sip of my tea so i was wondering if it would be ok to give him weak decaf tea made in milk? or is that a big no no? hes almost 4...

[creations]

I've given DS tea several times, he got into it over the winter as a warm drink, I use redbush which is naturally caffeine free and make it with a little hot water then top up with milk.  It was just a phase here but he was much much younger than yours. I remember a thread here some times back and quite a few LOs were drinking tea You could also add some milk powder to increase the calcium too.
Will he have those moist dried figs? I recently found some fig jam although that has sugar in but we just tried it for a change, what about either fig jam or pureed dried figs on toast etc or you can stir through custard or yoghurt if it makes those things more palatable for him??
Sultanas have lots of calcium too I think.
What about frozen yogurt?
Have you tried different cheeses? mozzarella is stringy/chewy a bit like cheese strings and really high in calcium, the blocks of it are even more like cheese string.
Have you tried milk shake or smoothy?
I recently found coconut milk powder which I can just stir through a cup of milk makes it taste very sweet and yummy even though there's no sugar.
Does he like apricots? kidney beans? Almonds?

Sorry can't answer on ice cream, my first thought is I wouldn't give it several times per week but I'm not in your position so who knows, I'd prob change my mind if I couldn't get anything else into him. What about whizzing sultanas or figs through yoghurt or milk pudding and freezing?? Don't know, just thinking there might be some reasonably easy recipe to make a healthier but tasty alternative?

[Aishi]

Hmm some.good ideas there, thanks! he wont eat figs altho he loves fruit! or yoghurts, custards etc, or jam so pureed fruit doesnt work. Sorry its not easy is it? lol i made frozen yoghurt a few times but he wont eat that either which is why i was thinking ice cream...

He will have almonds and raisins so i imagine he would be ok with sultanans too. Ill try those and look out for some cocunut milk powder and see if that will tempt him to try milk...thing is he is ok about drinking milk but just wants it in a bottle

[okinawamama]

What about a smoothie? Throwing tons of fruit with milk, yogurt and even spinach would be a great way to hide some high calcium foods.

[barbaraz78]

About the tea, I sometimes give F camomile, here some people give it also to infants (it used to be normal some years ago giving it to babies between feeds).
For icecream, here it is not considered junk. In fact, if you buy the hand made, there is milk, fruit, cream and sugar. I often do icecream at home, with just milk, sugar and fruit. So, really, it depends on what icecream you give it. I would prefer the hand made in icecream shops. I often give ice cream as snack when we are the beach during the summer.

[Aishi]

He wont have smoothies stephanie. He loves to help make them, takes a sip and then thats it

thanks Barbara. I hadnt thought of doing homemade ice cream. doh. Thats worth thinking about. Do u need an icecream maker? i dont want to buy appliances in case he doesnt go for it....

[barbaraz78]

I have Thermomix and use it for doing icecream (as to do everything else... ). I just freeze the milk and the fruit, then add sugar and blend everything. I don't know if it works with a normal blender.
I don't know how it is there, but here "gelaterie" normally start from scratch to do icecreams, so really it is normally not that bad and more and less what you could do at home. Surely more expensive though: with a glass of milk and a banana I make icecream for 3 people.

[creations]

thing is he is ok about drinking milk but just wants it in a bottle

Would he take a straw in a 'cool' boys cup or a sport bottle instead of a baby bottle?

You can add ground almonds (and milk powder) to things like pancakes and muffins if you ever make those. In fact you can just switch all the flour to ground almonds to make pancake mix.  Evaporated milk is high calcium too (from memory it's about double regular milk), in case you didn't know, don't know if you could do something with that so that smaller portions can still equal decent calcium level.

I did a sort of icecream a couple of times with frozen fruit and regular milk in the whizzer, it is softer than proper ice cream like it's been left out to melt a bit but still thick enough to eat with a spoon and it's cold and tasty without the cost of buying an ice cream maker.  You could prob do a couple of frozen ice cubes of milk, a handful of frozen fruit and then enough milk (or evaporated) to loosen it, the non-frozen milk goes thick and cold because of the frozen fruit.

[Mama_Mia]

When I took my sons bottle away he stopped drinking milk for a few months,I never worried about it, but anyway one fast he just started drinking it again and now hew drinks it daily.

[lilisuze]

You can buy soya ice cream in Tesco if you have one close by. Its called Swedish glace and comes in a black octagonal tub. Its very nice, we don't have any other kind in our freezer now!

[Aishi]

Oh id forgotten about this thread! thank you for your replies. Creations- im not the best of cooks (not from lack of trying tho!) So i stick.to basics. I did make frozen yoghurt once but he wouldnt eat it

he seems to be ok with cows milk and products but thanks for the tip about soya ice cream LS.

I have had some progress lately...he eats cheese strings, will let me put grated cheese on pasta which was a big no-no and will have about 3 oz of decaff tea made in milk, then whatever i can add through breads, nuts, bit of chocolate/ ice cream etc. Dyt thats enough?

[creations]

Maybe this helps?
http://www.babycenter.com/0_calcium-in-your-childs-diet_10324689.bc
it has the recommended amount of calcium for age and some suggestions for foods.

You can add a few teaspoons of milk powder to the cup of tea to increase calcium. I used to put some in DS's milk drink when it was on the low side.

[Aishi]

Thanks for the link Creations!