Need help with 8mo NW, always a horrible sleeper at night and got worse

[mianita]

Ladies, I need serious help here as I'm confused and exhausted and frustrated and probably am not able to thinking straight now… So well I need your advice.

My DD2 is 8mo. Was a terrible sleeper since birth, multiple props, sleeping in swing etc etc. Exclusively BF and MSPI (I'm on a diet).
Introduced solids veeery slowly just about 3 weeks ago. She is very tiny and we were trying to get as much breast milk in her as possible (recommendation from her pediatrician), so starter solids later.

I'll post our EAS at the end, but first need to vent out LOL
At 6mo I did sleep training and she is an independent sleeper. Most of the time she goes to sleep in 5-10 min without a peep (like 95%), sometimes whines a bit, usually not more than 20 min. Morning nap is the easiest, second nap and BT is tricky and I never know if she will fall asleep easy or will fuss a bit.
She slept in woombie. Last 3 weeks with one hand out. Always wakes up a lot during the night and I was always nursing her to sleep (like 10 min) and she was out and so I put her back in crib. Sometimes she wakes like every hour until 12-1am and then will do 2-3 hour stretches, very rare 4 hours.
She is cutting her first tooth now.
So lately she was not falling asleep on the breast easily and I nursed her like 30-40 min until she was out. Sometimes she would wake up after just 50 min and I was nursing her again. It was just comfort nursing, not really eating a lot. I even took her in my bed couple of nights ago as she was waining every 50 min and I was sooo tired by 2-3am. I tried to calm her without nursing, but usually it took so long and she was awake again in another 30-40 min, so I caved in and just continued to nurse her to sleep.

So today I noticed that she was kinda scratching herself with her woombie and finally put her to sleep in sleeping sack with 2 hands out. She was a bit frustrated but it took her 10 min of some whining to fall asleep. She woke up in 40 min and I decided to calm her without nursing, it took me 40 min and she was really upset. I gave her tylenol right before bed, put some gel on gums, so I'm pretty sure that she shouldn't be in real pain. But she was really upset… Not sure if I should continue with this, or just nurse her, I'm a bit lost, maybe she is hurting and I'm a bad mom because I'm not offering her comforting breast. Or maybe she is frustrated because of both hands out, but it is time for her, I'm pretty sure I can't put her in woombie longer, even with one hand out…

Not sure what to do. It is the right time to do something about her NWs? Or should I wait? But then again maybe she will be cutting her next tooth soon… OMG I'm in doubt about it and ready to just start cosleep with her (though I just feel bad about all this sleep training going to nowhere).
Please help!

OK so here is out EAS, it's approximate, some days she has longer A time, shorter naps/ longer naps, but her NW are always horrible, no matter how our day goes.

WU 7am, BF
A solids 9am - 3-4oz fruits (today added some oatmeal)
S 10am - 11.30 (can be anywhere between 1hr - 1.30)
E BF
A solids 1pm - 3-4 oz butternut squash with fruits
S 2.30- 3.30 (can be as well 1-1.30)
E BF 4 pm
A solids 6pm 3oz same squash with banana for example
6.30 bath
E 7.00 (sometimes I feed her before bath and than after a bit more)
S 7.30

She wakes up first somewhere between 50 min - 1.30 after her BT and after that really inconsistent wakings all night.

Any ideas?
Thanks a lot in advance!!

[Skadiver13]

Hi mianita I will post more when I get to a computer in the am its a bit difficult to reply on my phone but not ignoring your post. Hugs will reply in the am.

[Skadiver13]

Hi mianita I'm so sorry I had a sick little one all day and class tonight. I just got home. But to touch briefly on your post. I can feel you are unsure of what directiom to go with st. Is her mspi under control? No gastro issues or discomfort going on causing the wakings?

As for comfort nursing if you truly want to st then that would have to stop. So weaning the swaddle and st at the same time will be tough but its not impossible and I think will certainly help. We weaned the swaddle at 8 months. Have you checked out the threads for swaddle weaning? I can link them tomorrow from the computer. There will be crying and frustration for her and that doesn't make you a bad mum. You are aimply teaching her that if she wakes in the middle of thenight not due to hunger she can self settle back to sleep.

I think also you may want to start thinking about switching to two naps have a look on the easy board for sample routines and the nap boars for info on the 3-2 switch. Ill have a look at your easy but if she short naps from 1-1:30 do you do another nap to make it to bt?

To recap I think if you are trully going to sleep train not nursing to or back to sleep is key. You'll need to stick to it. Its unfair to her to put her through the st o ly to give in. We all have setbacks but go in with a positive mind about it. You can still feed at night but if she eats a full feed at 7 realistically she can go until 11 and then another 4 hrs before feeding again so anytime in between those two times (obviously they aren't set in stone) then you resettle with out feeding. A rule of thumb is if you resettle amd the wake again with in 30 min you can try feeding if they don't take a full feed you know  they weren't hungry and the next night don't feed at that waking and just resettle again

Hope this helps.

[mianita]

Thank you so much for your reply! I know that I have to stop this comfort nursing, but I'm always not sure if she is in some pain from teething or maybe some tummy ache due to solids, you never know with this babies.
She is on two naps now, each 1-1.30 hours, she dropped car nap long time ago.
And I'm confused with her NW a lot, for example last 3 nights were so different, she is so unpredictable. Night 1: woke 50 min after BT, than 2,5 hr stretch, and then 8 hours (which I think never happened). Night 2: woke up 3 hr after BT, than 3hr stretch and was awake from 3.30am until 5... Night 3: woke 40 min after BT, than again in 50 min and then had two almost 4hr stretches until 5.30am, ate and slept until 7am.
I try to resettle her without nursing if she wakes in less than 4 hours and sometimes she is ok with it, sometimes gets furious. Every night I gave her Tylenol in case of teething (she just cut her first tooth) and put some teething gel on gums. Nothing different.
She is our of swaddle BTW and sleeps on tummy, it went well and not a big difference for her, I even think she started to sleep a bit better. Now she got a cold and has runny nose. I fonts know if I should do some APOP or just continue to settle her in crib as I do instead of nursing...
She is just sooo unpredictable, I'm so confused with her NWs...

[Skadiver13]

but I'm always not sure if she is in some pain from teething or maybe some tummy ache due to solids, you never know with this babies.

^Hun even if she is in pain comfort nursing isn't going to help it may calm her down eventually but you'll not be able to figure out the true cause and you'll now know if she really was in pain or not ykwim?

woke 50 min after BT,

This is typically an indication of being over tired.

I try to resettle her without nursing if she wakes in less than 4 hours and sometimes she is ok with it, sometimes gets furious.

This will happen because you haven't stopped comfort nursing so she is expecting it and if she wants it she'll get very mad.  And unfortunately that isn't going to change until she learns not to expect it.   

You can't do a lot of ST if she's unwell. I would just do what you need to help her sleep till she's over her cold and then restart ST. Make sure to have a humidifier on in her room and treat her symptoms and take it from there. I would still try and work away from Comfort nursing though while she is sick because she really doesn't need it she's just looking for you in general.

Hope this helps.

[mianita]

This helps for sure! Thanks! I continue with feeding her every 4 hours if she wakes, not less. I noticed though that usually if she wakes and I don't rush to her, she puts herself to sleep in less than 10 min. Sometimes she just whines, sometimes she just suddenly wakes and immediately starts to cry pretty bad. But it seems to me that she even is not awake during this wakings, she is so sleepy than not even nurse well. Sometimes she needs like 20 min to resettle and it seems not make any difference if I'm there patting her back or not. She cries the same. And the amount of "awake" time is the same. Maybe she even does not wake up? I probably was always rushing to her too soon instead of waiting and checking if she goes back to sleep. Is this normal in babies? How it's better to handle these NWs? Should I try not nursing her at all? At what point I should feed her? Thanks again for help!