Does she need MORE A time? *Update- we're totally lost!*

[cuckoochick]

Hmmm so I'm back again about Miss G!

So the first nap has always been the most difficult to extend but sometimes, if I lie with her and the moon and stars are in alignment she will sleep 1.5-2hrs!

We're now up to 2hrs 45mins A which I know is quite high for her age- she's just turned 5mos but she's always been highish A times and manages well on v little sleep. Some days I cannot get the 3rd nap in and she ends up with a mega long A to bed but she will often do a longer night with an early BT so down before 7 and sleep until 8am as a catch-up (with NWs and NFs of course!)

So now I'm having trouble extending the second nap which previously I could, say 50% of the time. She's not an independent sleeper but I plan to start STing a week today so I'm trying to get a grip on her A times. We've never had any success reducing the second A so I don't usually or by v much at least as it doesn't seem to make any difference.

So the last few days have been

Thursday
Wake up 8:20 (I'm fairly flexible about her WU so if we can lie in a bit later after her nights then I'm happy to do that!)
A time 2.75hrs
S 11:05- 11:40
A time 2 hrs 25 mins
S 2:05-2:40
A time 2hrs 20
S 5:00- 5:35 (this was a real battle for DH)
A time 2.75hrs
BT 8:20 (I was aiming for 8pm but she was wide awake!)
NW 9:40 settled immediately for DH
NF 2:10
NF 5:55
Wake-up 8:10 DH woke us up! Now that was a GOOD night for G, v good! Often it's 2-3feeds and quite a few NWs needing resettling but that could be AP related.


Friday
Wake up 8:10
A time 2hrs 40mins
S 10:55-11:35 (tried to resettle for 5mins but she's always smiling and happy as soon as I go in)
A time 2hrs 35mins
S 2:10-2:50 (again I was hoping to resettle but a no go)
A time 2hrs 15mins
S 5:05-5:30
A 2hrs 20
BT 7:50
NF 12:10
NF 3:40ish???
NF 5:50 (I know but I just wanted another hr of sleep!)
Wake up 7:30am

Now that her A times are getting long and the naps are still short I don't know how we're going to get to 2 naps. Some days we've been forced to have 2 naps if she does a 2hr nap in the PM and it's either gone brilliantly well or disastrously! Ha! She's never unhappy after a short nap and copes with the OT really well. It's just the effect upon the nights and her E really that is the issue.

So should I push that A time some more? For the first A? What about the second? That last nap is really tough and then after the 3rd nap I try to keep the A time to 2hrs but she just won't sleep! If I lie her in the cot she happily plays and babbles so I am literally rocking and rocking or feeding and feeding to try and get her into bed!

Any thoughts appreciated! Thanks x

[Ima shel Alon]

If she has always been high with her A times and she is high with them now then she is probably going to go through the 3-2 transition on the early side, which is pretty much now .
I don't think it's unheard of that babies drop the CN at 5m (All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months) and IIWY that's the way I would go forward.
I would increase her A times a bit more (not sure about the second one, but the first one for sure) and slowly increase the second one as well. Hopefully she will start napping longer and you could drop the CN, which sounds like is messing with your night a bit.
are you still BF or she is FF? Have you started solids already?

[TB9]

Both my LSN girls dropped the cn by 5 months.  I had them both on 3hr (or more) A times at that age.  I would start by increasing her first A to get a good am nap and go from there

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Nicola we are headed in the same direction with E...up to 1h45m-2h A time at 3 months...we rarely got 4 naps in and are on 3 naps of varying length. I am actually thinking of doing set naps...did that with S and it worked well. But then that would mean a more set wake up time and I do like the odd sleep in!

[cuckoochick]

I stretched that first A to 3Hrs and got a 30min nap which I did get her back to sleep but got only 10mins and then she was chatting! For her 2nd A time I went for 2.75 hrs and she slept for 40mins and again woke happy so I didn't bother trying to extend as otherwise I'll struggle to get a 3rd nap in.  She is great with the longer As. This morning she yawned only once when I took her in her darkened room.

So I haven't been able to extend a nap in days, maybe over a week (never have the 1st unless I lie down with her and then it's not always a guarantee). So other than that 30 min nap throwing me this morning I do think she needs more A. C dropped the CN at mos and started STTN. I doubt G will anytime soon as her nights are far worse than C's ever were.

Noa she is BF. Her E is all over the place but I find it hard to stretch her feeds and we get off to a bad start everyday as she's not interested in feeding until the end of her first A after her 5amish NF. I did start to intro some solids last week at lunchtime as she seemed interested but the last few days she's not been bothered at all so I didn't give her any this lunchtime.

So today has been

WU 7:30
A
E offered at 8:30 not interested, hungry at 9:30
A 3 hrs
S 10:30-11:10 wake- up 30mins resettled, slept another 10mins
A
E 12:10 really hungry
A 2hrs 45 mins
S 1:55-2:35
A
E 3:15 hungry
A 2hrs 25mins
S 5pm- 5:30
...

Some days I can stretch her feeds easily to 3.5 hrs and if she naps well 4 no problem.

[Ima shel Alon]

Your feeds don't look bad at all. Even if she only did 3h at her age, being EBF I would say she is doing ok.

Looking at your EASY it does look like she needs more A time and to drop the CN soon. It might help with the night as well.

[cuckoochick]

Thanks hun. It's taken until 8:15ish to get her into bed. I just worry about the day getting long when she's only short napping so anyway we'll see how the night goes. Going to stick with 3hrs for the first A for the next couple of days. The thing that I'm always questioning is the subsequent As after a short nap. There doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason. I get so worried about OT but cutting doesn't seem to help either but if I don't cut there's no way I'll fit 3 naps in and if I get 2 short then it's a mega long A to bed!


Thanks again. Will try and update in a couple of days x

[cuckoochick]

Hmm, just thought I'd do a quick update as this morning she slept for 1.5hrs without any need for resettling!!!! I'm fully expecting the Vatican to contact us about a miracle occurring! Trying not to get my hopes up!

Last night was pretty good after an 8:20 BT she slept until 2:35, 4:50 and then up for the day at 7:15. So she's starting to only have 11hrs overnight. Today will have to be a 2nap day now she's done that long nap so of course this afternoons nap will probably be rubbish!

[Ima shel Alon]

The thing that I'm always questioning is the subsequent As after a short nap. There doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason. I get so worried about OT but cutting doesn't seem to help either but if I don't cut there's no way I'll fit 3 naps in and if I get 2 short then it's a mega long A to bed!

Alon always needed a full A time after a short nap, maybe G is like that as well?
And why won't you go for an EBT in case of 2 short naps? You have mentioned it's working pretty well for you, no?
Was the 1.5h nap after a 3h A time?

[Shiv52]

Both mine needed pretty much a full A time after a short nap too. Maybe 15 minutes off but nothing more.

Hurray for the great nap. Did the Vatican call yet?

I'd be tempted to stick to the 3 hours and see how you go. It will take a few days to settle in x

[michaeljacknnugg]

Just popping by - so happy things are improving for you Nicola!

[cuckoochick]

Sorry to have not replied. Things are a bit all over the place.

So for the last three days now, G has only had 2 naps, not intentionally but once that morning nap lengthened I just can't fit the 3 in and so we've had to do EBT (although it hasn't worked out that way

So here have been the last few days. I'm stuck with the second nap now...oh and the E is just all over as she WON'T eat until at least 1hr after waking these days. I'm not posting the E right now as not really tracking it but it's roughly every 3 hrs in the day, with feeds getting spaced shorter in the late afternoon evening.


Sun
WU 7:15
A time 2hrs 55
S 10:10-11:40 (1.5hrs!!!! yAY!!)
A time 3hrs
S 2:40-3:20
A (FAR too long- I was on my own as DH working late and had both girls to sort- had been shooting for 6:40ish but as OT ended up being too late) 3HRS 50
S 7:10
NF 10:40
NF 3:20
NF 6   
WU 7:30

Mon
WU 7:30
A time 3hrs
S 10:30-11:40 (1hr 10 mins)
A time 3 hrs
S 2:40-3:20 (40mins)
A time 3hrs 10 mins
S 6:30
OT NW 7:15 (I topped her up)
NF 10:30
NF 2:30
NF 4:50
WU 8am (so a long night here!)

Tues (today)
WU 8:05
A time 3 hrs
S 11:05-12:35 (brief WU at 45 mins but resettled easily)
A time 3 hrs
S 3:35- 4:05 (30mins) but resettled until 4:20
A (again a struggle as have girls on my own tonight) 3hrs 10mins
S 7:30 (woke up after 10mins resettled by 7:40)


So I know I need to work on that 2nd nap but can you ladies see where we're going wrong? Yesterday I was thinking possibly UT after 3hrs for it but then she did a 30min nap today (OT?) I just often feel that with G there is not a lot of rhyme or reason as sometimes she will do the longer nights to catch up, others not, the waking up at 10pmish is very new but she's so hungry lately. So any ideas? Can you unpick anything? Do you need me to track the Es too?

Thanks so much

[TB9]

DD2 will do 30min naps if she is going to be hungry...and she wilk wake 30min before she is actually hungry.  So if I get her down for nap 1hr before she is due for a feed, then she doesnt sleep 1hr (or even 45min) she only sleeps 30min.  So it may be worth it to look at Es too

[cuckoochick]

So last night she went from 7:30 to 1:10am(ish) and then she woke around 3am so I sent DH in and she was really crying so I got up to go to her but then she calmed down and went back to sleep until 6am, had a short feed and back to sleep then up for the day at 7:20am (but still not interested in nursing this morning :/ )So last night shows that I might try getting DH to resettle her a bit more in the night if he can. Prop issues are definitely at play as she is so reliant upon us for help.

It's still the second A time that is causing the bother and now we've had an earlier start to the day it's even more high stake!

[Ima shel Alon]

Nicola, it doesn't seem like you are doing bad at all.

If she is refusing a feed straight thing in the morning then just forget about it. Start your morning with some play or getting ready and after an hour offer her a feed. Your next feed will be in the middle of your next A time which is might be a bit better because that way you rule out hunger waking her up after 30min like Tinkerbell suggested.

are you sure that the 30min was OT? In the past did she need the same A times before her naps or the morning one was longer/shorter? I actually think it's worth a try to offer 3:10h A time for the second one.