Author Topic: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain  (Read 3640 times)

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Offline Regina Phalange

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7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« on: December 05, 2013, 05:27:14 am »
Sorry, it's a bit of a long one  :P
I posted about a week and a half ago on the Solid Foods board about whether or not I should limit solids for my now 7 month old, who has taken to solids in a big way, but appeared to be lowering his breastmilk intake. I thought he was having enough wet diapers, but I double checked, and according to what I read on Kellymom, he wasn't. I underestimated just how wet they are supposed to be. So I scaled back a bit on solids, and added two nursing sessions to our day. It made a difference in output pretty quickly. After doing this for a few days, I had a couple extra busy ones, where we didn't have the opportunity for the extra nursing, but I hoped that because I had been nursing more, my supply would have increased, and going back to the usual four per day (plus a dream feed) would be alright. But the diapers went back to how they were previously. After reading around here, I saw some posts about moms having success with spacing out the feeds, and doing three per day instead of four. The idea was that because their babies were hungrier, they took much better feeds, which resulted in a higher quantity in a 24 hour period. I decided to give that a shot, but while he nursed for a bit longer, it didn't seem like he got any more, and the diaper output didn't increase like I hoped. We had a dr appointment today, and apparently he's only gained 9oz in two months  :o Dr said he's still well within the normal range, as he was a big boy to begin with, so he could just be leveling out. But he was concerned enough to have us come back a month from now to check on his weight again, when normally we wouldn't have had to come back until his first birthday. If it was just the low weight gain, without the concern of not enough diaper wetting, I wouldn't be concerned, but.....
So now I'm confused. Has my supply dropped? There was a definite decrease in my pumping output, but I gather that's relatively normal. Or is he just so interested in the world that he's only taking enough time to nurse until he's just cut through the hunger so that he can play? I went back to extra nursing sessions today. Will I just have to continue that for a while maybe, until he's at a more acceptable age to decrease his milk intake?
I was contemplating a bit of a theory I had, but I don't know if it makes sense. He is not usually very vocal about being hungry, so I've always had to do more scheduled feedings, than nursing on demand. To the point where the only reason I noticed his growth spurts in the past has been because he started waking at night. A while ago (maybe at 5.5 months?), he started waking at night, but there were so many other possible reasons (3-2 transition, crawling & sitting, teething) that the 6 month growth spurt didn't even occur to me. But what if he hit this growth spurt early, and it just happened to coincide with the other causes of night wakings? And because I didn't respond to the growth spurt, he started taking more solids...and because he was taking more solids, he wasn't getting enough breast milk...possibly even causing a drop in my supply. Does this sound feasible?
Argh, I just feel so awful. I'm the one that's supposed to be nourishing him, but it doesn't seem like I'm doing that well enough. What should I do??  ???

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 22:27:53 pm »
You are doing a great job! :) please don't beat yourself up. It would be so much easier if the breasts had gauges on huh? ; D

I do think 7mo is way too early to move down to 3 BFs. It is more usual to have 4 day feeds until 10-12mo. Both if mine were over 12 mo when we dropped to 3 BFs during the day and we were still having a NF as well. Milk is the main source or nutrition so it shouldn't be replaced by solid foods until closer to 12mo. At 7mo I would only expect 2 solid meals and maybe a third just being introduced.

I do think that keeping the 4 or 5 BFs will mean he takes more overall. His feeds are limited by the size of his tummy, the storage capacity of your breasts and how long he will feed before he gets distracted once the initial hunger has been sated.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Regina Phalange

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 19:45:45 pm »
Thank you for your input Ali :)
The problem is though that 5 nursings a day just isn't cutting it, considering the low wet diapers and weight gain. And based on today, the two extra nursing sessions aren't doing enough either. We nursed at wake up around 7:30, then had breakfast (half a banana - gobbled down, and would have had more if offered) around 8:45, then nursed again around 9:45. Early nap at 10 as he was just exhausted, and he slept till noon. Nursed again, but he either had very little interest, or there wasn't much there. Lunch around 1:30 (two pieces of broccoli and a couple pieces of pasta - last night's leftovers). Again, he most definitely would have eaten more if I offered. Nursed again around 2:15, which seemed to go better then the 12:00 one, but he did not appear satisfied at all. So I mixed up some formula I have for emergencies, and he snatched the bottle from me and devoured it like I'm starving him or something. What is going on??? Maybe I should be asking my doctor for Domperidone, because I really think my supply is disappearing!

Offline Fiver

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 20:09:12 pm »
Also bear in mind with the weight that if he's starting moving around (crawling, sitting up etc) that he's burning off some calories and it's not uncommon for weight gain to slow at that stage.

Have you tried Breast compression to keep him interested when he starts slowing down?
*** Amanda ***




Offline Regina Phalange

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 20:26:09 pm »
That's true. He is getting taller rather than wider, and apparently my husband's brother did the exact same thing when he was a baby - weight gain dropped, but he shot up in length. Like I said, if it wasn't for the shortage on wet diapers, and now the way he guzzled that formula, I wouldn't be all that concerned.
I actually forgot about breast compressions. I will start doing that. Thanks!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 20:54:22 pm »
Are you offering water when you offer solids? Maybe he could just do with drinking more. Is h e sttn after the DF? Surely he can't be that hungry if he is.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Regina Phalange

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 22:28:11 pm »
I do offer water in a sippy cup after solids. He seems interested, but then takes a couple sips and he's done. Maybe he just doesn't like how fast it comes out...? Perhaps I will try offering water in a bottle for a while, and see if that makes a difference. But I'm still concerned about whether or not he's getting enough breast milk. From what I read on the kellymom site, if they are getting milk and water, the diapers are no longer a good indication of whether or not they are getting enough milk, because milk alone should result in at least 4 or 5 soaked diapers a day. And since he's not hitting that mark even with only a few sips of water here and there...
Yes, he is sleeping through the night again, now that we are past the 3-2 transition, and over the worst of the teething and resulting stuffy/runny nose...once I figured out that it helped to raise the head of his mattress and run a vaporizer in his room. Now that I think of it though...the stuffy nose could be contributing to thirst, if he's breathing through his mouth a lot. But then, that doesn't explain the lack of wet diapers does it? You're right though. You would think he'd be waking at night if he was hungry. Oh I'm so confused!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 21:47:41 pm »
So how many wet diapers is he going through? Are you using disposables? I know it can be hard in those to see just how much pee there is as they hold so much. Are you just looking or have you tried weighing them? I was advised to do that when my LO was not having many wet ones just so I can see if they really were as dry as I thought. You can compare them to a dry nappy and 100g of pee is roughly 100ml.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline *Ali*

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 21:48:49 pm »
The other thing is, where are you? Is it hot there? That would lead to les pee too.maybe you are approaching winter like me but just a thought.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Fiver

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 22:02:07 pm »
I'd been thinking about the disposables/reusables thing too as disposables do have to have a LOT in them to be heavy/soaked.
*** Amanda ***




Offline Regina Phalange

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 05:21:29 am »
I'm generally changing his diaper around 4 times a day. We use disposables. I haven't actually weighed them, but just felt the weight compared with one that I've poured water in. The kellymom site says there should be at least 4 or 5 soaked diapers, and to feel how heavy they should be, you can pour 4-6 tbsp of water into a dry diaper. Because the amount of diaper changes we have is on the low end of the spectrum, at 4 per day, I used 6 tbsp of water in the comparison diaper since there should be more pee per diaper. It made sense to me, but maybe I'm being paranoid, and a smaller amount is okay? The morning diaper is the most wet of course, but it's not nearly as wet as it used to be. It feels about as heavy as the one with 6 tbsp of water, but it used to be much more. If there was nothing else giving me concern, I might just assume he's getting ready to wean the dream feed and therefore drinking less, which would lower his output overnight. I don't know exactly how much lighter the other diapers are because, as I said, I haven't weighed them, but I think maybe I will do that tomorrow and see where we stand.
It's definitely not hot here (Canada), but sometimes I think our house is warmer in the winter than in the summer since the heat is running, rather than the cold air. But it isn't unreasonably warm in the house, so I don't think that would be making a difference.
I can't really say how long we spend nursing, because it's hard to time it. Even with a good feed, he only spends a few minutes per side drinking consistently, and then the rest of the time is spent bobbing on and off. So, here's what's been happening the last few days: I nurse him when he wakes, and he takes a decent feed, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as much as before. Then I give breakfast about an hour later, which usually consists of toast, and approximately one ounce of pureed prune and formula/breastmilk. A little after breakfast, we nurse again to top up, and he takes a mediocre feed. I started doing this top up only recently, when I started being concerned about him not getting enough. After his nap, I try and nurse again, for what used to be the second feed of the day, but he is showing very little interest here. That, or there isn't much there for him to get. Then we'll have lunch which is usually a couple slices of fruit or veggies. Then I top him up again (the 2nd added feed), and he takes what seems to be a somewhat okay feed. Definitely not a lot, but he's getting some for sure. But he's not getting as much as he wants, and looks quite dissatisfied, so I've been finishing him off with formula after - about 5oz. After his nap, he nurses again but it's been a pretty small one. Then we have supper, and I try to give him a small strip or two of meat and a veggie or two - depending on what we are eating. About an hour and a half after that he nurses again at bedtime, and it's another moderate feed, and then I nurse the dream feed, which seems mostly okay.
So as I'm typing this all out, a thought is occurring to me. When it says that they should have at least 4 or 5 wet diapers with the equivalent weight of 4-6 tbsp of water, do you think that 4 diapers with the weight of 4 tbsp is actually still okay? On the low side, but still in the acceptable range? That extra 2 tbsp would probably make a pretty big difference in my expectations, so maybe he was doing fine the way things were, and now I've been offering the breast more than is necessary. If that's the case, it could be that the top up after breakfast is filling him to capacity, which is why he's not nursing after his nap. Then he's hungry again after lunch, because he hasn't nursed properly in four hours or more. But because this is not a usual nursing time my body doesn't have enough for a full feed, which is why I need to give him formula. Then the feed after his nap is small, because he just had a bigger one before. Oh man, did I go into full paranoid mode, and react to something that wasn't even a problem? What do you guys think?

Offline Fiver

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 11:29:51 am »
Those nappies sound fine to me.  Disposables really do hold a massive amount and what you're describing does sound normal.

Your body will produce milk to demand when your LO sucks, so it is unlikely that you haven't got enough milk and he may be fussing for some other reason (frustration at a slower LD etc) which is suggestive that you're lacking in milk, just that he wants it there sooner.  What happens if you try breast compressions at that feed rather than offering a bottle?  It may be that he's become accustomed to you offering a bottle there which is easier to feed from and is holding out for that?
*** Amanda ***




Offline Regina Phalange

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 03:35:40 am »
I was concerned about the bottle making things worse as well. I stopped the extra top up feeds today. He seemed to still be getting the same amount over the day, just at different intervals. I did it for 5 days, and wasn't noticing a change in his diapers, so there doesn't seem to be a benefit. If anything, it's doing more harm than good if I end up having to give a bottle of formula...
I don't think he even noticed that we did anything different, to be honest.
I've been trying compressions, but it's tricky, because he's a lazy eater. As soon as the milk slows, he pops off. He'll be on and off for a while after that, but he's never on long enough for me to get the compressions going.
I did weigh his diapers today, and after accounting for the weight of the diapers, I think there was about 10oz of pee. That seems low, no? But it's so weird because if he's not getting quite enough, why would he seem perfectly happy, and not be waking for feeds through the night. You're probably right, Fiver. It's probably perfectly fine, and I'm imagining a problem where there is none. I do that sometimes, despite my efforts not to. :P

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 04:51:15 am »
A bit of googling has led me to discover that the minimum urine output for an infant is 1-2ml/kg/hr...so depending on his weight he is probably well within normal ranges...plus there are always variations for each individual child. I actually took DD2 to the dr because I thought she was peeing too much, turns out nothing was wrong she just has a high output. If he is happy and sleeping well then I would let that be your guide!
Heidi




Offline Lewa2

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Re: 7 month old not getting enough milk and low weight gain
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 10:23:06 am »
Hi Regina, I have been seeing a LC due to L's slow weight gain so here are a few tricks I've learnt. If you lo is fussy because the ld has slowed, change sides (I feed 4 sides per session). Breast compression works wonders for me!! If your worried the solids are interfering the milk intake, bring the solid meal closer to the milk feed. So breastfeed then straight after, solids, this makes it 1 combined meal rather than 2 seperate ones so he'll have a longer time between the next feed and better chance of being hungry. Hope it settles down for you soon.