At my wits end - bad nights and v early wakings at 15 weeks

[KookyK]

I'm sooo knackered at the moment it's just not funny :-(

DS has always been unsettled from about 5am but this week it's been worse and I've struggled to get him back to sleep. Some of it is wind but possibly habit and other stuff too?

He currently goes to bed 7.30-8 and feeds at around 12 and 3 but then from 4 the waking start. I use white noise and he is swaddled. If he's pooed I've changed him. Room is dark. I put him down sleepy but awake. He doesn't like patting so I stroke his eye brows and in his cot he's soothed by my hand on his tummy.

Sometimes he goes off for 30-60 mins then is wide awake again. He's not ESP unhappy. Sometimes I can get him asleep again. I really need him asleep til at least 6.30 as we have the school run at 8.30 and napping before then isn't really possible (sometimes I put him in carseat early and park him by front door so he starts his nap from .

He is compensating for bad nights with a long morning nap. I feel I need to reset this but don't want him OT.

He's breastfed and big! No reflux. Feeds 2.5 hrly daytime.

Day sort of like this

Bed 7.30/8
Feed 12, 3am
A 3.55-4.25am
A 5.45-6
A and start day 6.30
S 8.30-10.30 in carseat could even go longer but I woke him yday
S 12.15-1.15 in cot seemed tired on waking but couldn't resettle
S 2.40-3.20 in carseat school run
S 5.20-6 (resisted this nap from 5)
Bed 8

I have to go to bed at the same time as him at night or he doesn't settle! Don't know why! Hence I prefer 8pm than 7.30 which is too early despite my tiredness.

Any ideas?

[KookyK]

Bump??

[jessmum46]

Hi, sorry you haven't had any replies as yet.  (((Hugs))) on the sleep deprivation.

Would you consider/is it feasible for you to get him to bed a bit earlier?  Normally at this age it is usual to aim for a 12h day so if he is often up by 6.30 I'd be aiming for more like a 6.30pm BT, 7pm at the outside on a good nap day.  The problem with having a long day is that LO gets OT and there is a build-up of stress hormones and adrenaline.  In the early hours of the morning this typically causes unsettledness and early wakings.  You may find that an earlier BT helps and also gives you a slightly more settled night.

I don't think the long morning nap is a big issue as his A time is plenty long enough beforehand (usually the problems come with too short an A time), even a bit too long sometimes.  I think a 2h nap is reasonable but like you I'd probably wake him at that point.  You're headed for 3 naps anyway, ideally two long ones and a catnap so if that 2h nap stays that's probably a good thing

What do you think?

[KookyK]

Hi jessmum46 its so kind of you to reply.


I've tried earlier bedtime but the trouble is he repeatedly wakes up from about the 40 min mark at bedtime which makes it impossible to put my DD to bed as he needs my help to stay asleep.

He actually seems to be getting worse with sleep its so depressing. Last night he was on/off awake from midnight to 5am. He'd had 3 good naps yday too! He seems to suffer badly with wind but I can't say that was the problem the whole of that time. Wonder if he'd had too much sleep yday?!

[KookyK]

Wonder if he's teething as well!

Also I've heard of a 16 week sleep regression.

Perhaps it's all hit at once?!

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))), I found this age really difficult.

How have naps been going the last couple of days?  When you've done EBT in the past how early have you tried?

[KookyK]

6.30 is the earliest I've done.

Last night
S 7pm
E 11.30
Small E 1.30 then I realised he was wet thru :-(
E 4.30
A 5.30 might've slept 15-20 mins until I gave up tryin to resettle at 6.30.

Days are
A 5.30-7
S anytime from 7.45 depending on wake up until 10-10.30
S 12-2 sometimes shorter and I always have to extend this unless in buggy
S 4-5 often 40 mins
Bed 6.45-7

[jessmum46]

It looks like your LO is tacking on night sleep to that first nap.  Because it's happening so early in the day it may be encouraging the EWs.  I would be tempted to say no earlier than 8am for a few days, then no earlier than 8.10am etc and push it forward until WU starts improving. 

You also wondered about teething - does medicating improve things at all?

[KookyK]

Thanks jessmum that's a good idea re shifting nap forwards.

Medicating didnt help the one night I tried so maybe not that.

Last night was an improvement. Not sure why. I think I resettled him to about 6.20 so the day started a bit later and he did

A 6,20
S 8.20-9.15 (woke up cos of being at DDs xmas play!)
S 11.15-1.15
S 2.45-3.20 school run but hoped he'd catnap as we were off to Santa
S 5.15-6
Bed 8

Night wakings 11, 2.30, 5.45 - tried to resettle but he pooed and I had a coughing fit!

[jessmum46]

Not a bad day though considering you needed to be out late . Hope your cough gets better quickly!

[lhurley168]

When do you transition to two longer naps and one cat nap? We're a few weeks older (22) and are also at out wits-end. DH wants to start accidental parenting and I say no way.  I know DS is needing more awake time. His feedings are shorter but more frequent, he's fighting sleep, only takes 45 min naps at best, is waking every hour at night happily awake. But he's not adjusting to a 3.5 hr easy schedule. Should we jump to 4 instead of transitioning

[jessmum46]

He should be easily capable of a 4h EASY by now, often LOs can handle the required 2h A time by about 4 months or just after.  You'll be headed for the 3-2 transition before too long so yes, I would get pushing up those A times a bit.  10 mins extra, hold for 3-4 days, then push up again.

If you want to post a recent day I'm happy to make some more specific suggestions x

[lhurley168]

Thank you JessMum. Our routine has gotten thrown off and varies due to his fussiness. I will post how yesterday went:

A 7:25am
E 7:35am would not latch on. Too happy and playful. He had a NF at 6am.
A 7:40am
E 9:40am
A 9:50am He nurses fast and now that I've also introduced ebm bottles I worry he's not getting enough while nursing.
S 10:30 am we tried to go down earlier and he wouldn't
A 11:10am
E 11:40am
A 12:00pm
E 12:45 pm fell asleep while nursing
S 12:50pm
A 3:30pm
E 3:45pm
A 4:00pm
S 6:15pm
E 7:35pm
S 7:50pm Did not work. Tried shh/pat and pu/pd. Inconsolable screaming the entire time
A 8:30pm bath, diapering, new pjs
S 9:10pm Crying/screaming again. Thought a feeding would help. D's became hysterical so I layed him in the crib and he instantly passed out.
E 11:00pm He woke up crying. Tried nursing but became hysterical again. Gave him a cold bottle from the refridgerator and he took to it immediately. I usually have them warmed or at room temp. He was so upset I was just seeing if he wanted the bottle instead of nursing and that seemed to be the case. He didn't care if it was warm or cold.
NF 3:00am
NF 5:50am

After going through it I know it was a horrible day. I'm starting to wonder if he's recjecting nursing. Last night was the first in 2 weeks that he hasn't woke up ever hour or 90 mins. It was also his first night in his own room/crib. He's taken naps in there but first night sleep. DH and I made the choice to put him in there Bc we're at a loss of what to do.


S

[jessmum46]

Was the S at 6.15pm meant to be bedtime?  Or a nap?

Yes I agree it was a bit of a tricky day, that first A time was really long.  I would have thought he'd have been ready for a nap by 9.15/30ish.  But well done on the big catch-up nap afterwards . I would have tried for a catnap by around 5.30pm for 30-40 mins then BT around 7.30pm I think. 

When you're on three naps at this age the last one really does need to be a catnap, not a long nap.  The reason for that is that many LOs will be quite refreshed by a 45 mins nap or longer and will need a full (or nearly full) A time afterwards before they'll sleep again.  But that causes the day to be too long so LO ends up OT from short nights.

The other thing you mentioned - rejecting nursing?  What makes you think that?  To me it looks a lot like he is nursing fairly frequently.  Especially at night, perhaps a bit more that I would expect actually. If he can do 3.5-4h during the day between feeds then I wouldn't feed him more frequently than that at night - it's so easy to create a prop for yourself.  Nursing fast is normal at this age - DD rarely fed for much more than 5 mins by this point and was totally full for the next 4h or so.

[lhurley168]

I get confused on what to do with the evening cat naps. DH thinks if its 6:30pm when DS finally goes to nap we should wait to wake him to see if he'll be sleeping for the night. That I know does not work. There's no bedtime routine and he's not even in pj's yet. We've had discussions as to why it never works and DH and I are on the same page. Let's just say we're lost together 

So to answer your question, yes 6:30 S was intended to be a cat nap. I've also thought DS has been rejecting nursing Bc he doesn't show interest in latching on or will even get upset if I put him in a cradle postion but will turn around and immediately take a bottle. On the schedule shown we only nursed at 9:50am and 12:45pm for the day. NF we always nurse. I was also concerned that his shorter sessions mean he's getting less and mean he's wanting to feed more often. Today was better. He didn't nap much but we followed the proper EASY routine. He did
however eat at 12:30 and again at 2:30 and now at 6:00 pm